As many of you know, my W and I have become very open, honest. I will say that this is really difficult. Once you share like that, you can never go back. Losing those "games" means losing that "sense" of control that come with them. Ofcourse, their just a lie, but many of us come to rely on them in the course of our relationships. <P>This isn't a kiss off post to the board, just another snippet of what I've learned. A little therapy for me, by sharing. Haven't talked alot lately with my W. Today we did, I still had/have some questions and she does her best at answering them. Our dialog has pretty much left the realm of affairs and focused on our marriage and the dissolution of it. I have learned and finally noticed what I really had been missing about our marriage. The lack of love. <P>My views on what that is, differ greatly from my W's. Our backgrounds and experience are also very different. I believe this has much to do with the expectations of a marriage. My parents have been married for 33 years, her mom is divorced 3 times, six children throughout. Much of her family suffers through the malady of divorce. My rarely touched. Regardless, I believe in the very heart I share with her, that she (considering her definition; which in this case is the ONLY one that counts) did not love me, maybe never did. This is not the typical response I have seen here. Like many of you here, I did hear that, especially early on. But, through our talks and my inspection of our history, I see that for her, this has been a constant problem, conflict. She cares deeply for me, I know. I have learned that she struggled with this, tried to make herself. She eventually, felt she had no choice left but to end it in a way that would be insurmontable. The affair. A one night, spent out, on purpose with a no name. No, she is not a slut, and no, she never expected the damage that she would do by choosing this way to exit our marriage. <P>Thinking about it from her point of view, for those years, it must have been tough. She did not want to hurt me, but she simply could not continue. If she had just come out and told me, I wouldn't have been able to handle it, or believe it. I am not justifying her act, but I guess I can understand it. <P>I don't know why she couldn't love me. I think there are reasons that really don't have anything to do with me. I don't think it's anyone's fault, mine or hers. The difference in beliefs in commitment definately play a role. Maturity too. I was 28, she 20. We were in love, we were friends, we dated... we got pregnant. I made a life changing mistake. Told her to get rid of it or leave. Changed my mind, figured that made it right. It didn't and shouldn't. She treated me like [censored] for 6 months, she got scared, she came back. Got married. Didn't know what we were doing and let our potential love die, or killed it. DOA. <P>Anyone else may have appreciated a young man that took a very hard look at who he was and decided to stand for something. Yes, I worked to stand by her. It was not the easy way. However, for her, because of what life had taught her, making her decide such a thing, me or the baby, was unbelievably painful. It also confirmed all of those things that she has come to believe about love and life. I am responsible for that. Not self pity, just fact. I do respect that she stood for what she believed, I am disapointed that I did not. However, I AM proud that I learn from my misatkes. This does not change the fact. We hear we can forgive, but can never forget. She has done neither ont his issue. Because of it it consumed her. I also believe that, we (my mistake) as people, sometimes do things that we can never fully correct. Wrong has a price. This does not only apply to betrayers folks. <P>I guess the key is that even if you cannot correct a past error, by all means you MUST grow from it. I feel I have. I have to be content with that at very least.<P>To me, I cannot imagine being trapped and unable to do anything to make me happy. I haven't had that problem, my happiness has always come from inside. I never relized, until now, how tough our marriage was on her. I did all I could to make her comfy and feel special. Flowers for no reason, changed diapers; I loved being her husband and a dad. What I have learned is, it didn't matter what I did, I could not MAKE her love me. I believe she won't let anyone love her, that's another subject. In any relationship, both party's definition have to be respected, right or wrong in any view. Something as intangible as love cannot have a blanket definition. That's what makes it so special... and so painful. I am not happy about this, but you can't put the genie back in the bottle. If two people's view of love, marriage, are not the same, how can it survive? <P>Don't get me wrong, I do believe that my W's definition of the happiness she seeks is lacking. Hell, she still can't say exactaly why she was unhappy, just that she was. We have gotten to the point where I can feel the sincerity that she doesn't want to hurt me or relly talk about it. She is a big conflict avoider. Part of her problem? The talking about a problem is harder than the problem. The only thing I have asked God through this is to heal our hearts and keeps our kids intact. I am not into praying for specifics, maybe I should have been<BR> . I guess I got what I asked for, I didn't know He would make it so hard. I thank Him just the same. I have not given up on my definition of love, this has only reiforced it. You can "survive an affair", Harley even states, that if it ends, you can move on successfully. I hope that the lessons she has learned, she takes to heart and grows. The only reason I can, is because I feel like I know now. Our divorce will be final in 9 days. I am not sure what I will experience that day. I am sure you'll know . Thanks so much to you all.<P><BR>See ya,<BR>Eric<P><BR>

eric,<P>you are so wise and so understanding of the state of your life and marriage. I feel very much the same about my wife. Don't know if she really ever loved me the way a wife should love her one and only for a lifetime. Thanks for letting your heart speak in this post, I really appreciate your thoughts and I am relieved to know what I am thinking of my own situation is not crazy but actually quite realistic and unfortunately sad for us who gave our hearts to someone who did not love us back in the same way. Let the healing continue...

hi eric, I love to read your posts. Maybe you are right that your wife just does not know what it will take to make her happy and fulfilled. I am not sure about why she could not love you. Maybe she thought that was what she was doing, only to find she did not know what it is? Afterall, did someone give you a definition of what love really is? Maybe a little because of what you saw growing up. But nothing real concrete. On the other hand, your wife saw love as being something totally different, and she expected something different than you. Sje expects failure, divorce, arguments, unhappiness. Unfortuately, sometimes one gets what they keep expecting. A self fulfilling prophecy? <BR>You sound so healthy!!! (((hugs)))

Thanks guys,<P>I think we all have different processes for determining how to deal with this and how to determine what went wrong. My W has been struggling just like me, but she kept looking to why and determined it had to be my fault. What we have discovered, together, is that it isn't necessarily either one of ours completely. I blamed me as well, but I kept looking at how I really am, and how I really behaved. I just couldn't see it. When I couldn't see it, I then blamed her. "If who I was couldn't make her happy or commited, she must have the problem." It's her fault. This is the dangerous cycle alot of us get wrapped up in. I guess it all goes back to the inability to communicate and to trust.<P>My dilema, sadness stems from the fact that, now that we have dismantled the concepts that drove our relationship, I don't know if <b>I</b> want to end up with a person like her in the end. At first, I would have given anything to reconcile. That's what we did 5 years ago and look where we are. Either way, even later, if we decide to try again, we have to start all over. I don't think I have it in me to love her the way a person should. That's the part that is hard to face. Acceptance. In the absence of malice, you are left with hard, cold reality.<P>Izzy, I glad I can help by sharing. I don't know if it is that they won't love us the way we expect, as much as they can't.<P>cl,<BR>cl, I swear you know my W. You're right about the expectations about marriage and my W. The question I am left with is, is this what I want for a marriage. I don't think a person can change such core concepts in another. I have tried for 6 years and failed. She must do it on her own? When/if she can, I'll be gone, not on puropose, but because I owe it to myself and to someone out there to share what I have to offer... and to recieve it in return.<P>Eric

Eric, <BR>I applaud your honesty and coming to terms with what has happened in your life. Even though my H and I both came from families where there was not a lot of divorce, my H's father had a few transgressions in their marriage. At about the same age as my H when he had his. And my H views about marriage and mine differ now. Perhaps we have grown, matured and with that, our roles changed. I know what I did wrong in our relationship, and will learn and grow from it. I hope he does the same. But I do believe that unless he comes to terms with his own issues, he will have difficulity in any relationship. For me, as Plan B has gone on, I am finding myself more and more. And know what I am willing to do in a relationship and what I want from it. He will not be back. I know that now. But when I am ready to love again, I will be a better person, ready to give freely. You will be the same, Eric. We now know what we want and will chose the best we can. <P>------------------<BR>Susan<P><BR>