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Eric32 Offline OP
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Hey,<P>I'm a big lurker about once a week now. Yep, started comin' here a year+ ago. So many new folks here. That sucks, I'd love to come around and see this epidemic ended. Alas... Anyhow, I have noticed through my time here at MB, that so many folks have little ones. Both sexes. It seems especially around 2 years old. Why? Hell, I know that 2 year olds are alot to handle, but must we include this as part of the package too? [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P>Thoughts?<P>Eric

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what is it you are asking? please explain

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Eric,<P>Interesting train of thought.<P>I wonder if it is because at about this time the mundane routine of life sets in and the wayward just can't handle reality and the fantacy of new love and excitement override all sense of sacrifice, family and commitment.<P>Bill<P>------------------<BR>BB<BR>

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Wife,<P>I noticed you're new around these parts [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com] . Once you've been here awhile, you see certain trends. I have noticed that many couples (some X-couples, myself included) that suffer the malady of infidelity have children around the age of two. Ufortunately, your talking with a guy whose marriage failed, and who has 2 kids under 5 years old. Like I said I've been here a year, my son was only 18 months old when his mom began this mess. We're divorced now and I have joint, mom isn't all that hot of a mom and isn't/wasn't involved in an on-going affair w/ one guy. It's been many! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com] My question is more of an observation, asking for feedback.<P>Bill,<P>My thoughts as well. My W was a little hottie 20 year old when we got hooked up. I was 27, looking to start a family. She had a screwed up family, but seemed to share the same values as me when it came to the kids. I learned (even before the affair) that she may not have been as ready as she imagined, to have kids. To take the responsibility as seriously as it demanded. Let alone the responsibility of marriage! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com] .<P>Eric

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Eric,<BR>I honestly don't think my H was ready to be a husband and father. I was 20 and he was 22 when we got married. (I was also 6 months pregnant). I stepped up to the responsibility but he didn't do a very good job. I just wish he had let me know that he wasn't ready before we had been married 10 1/2 years and had 3 kids. (yes, a 10 yr old, a 7 1/2 yr old and as of yesterday a 3 yr old, all 3 are boys). <P>Good observation by the way!<BR>Mitzi

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Eric32 Offline OP
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Mitzi,<P>We have the same situation. I wasn't married before we conceived either. Whoops [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]! Funny, I often hear about men not being ready in this situation, but not women. Lucky me... IMO, God throws things at you, and whether your ready or not, your cmmited to stepping up to the plate. Some folks just don't seem to want to accept that though. Guarantee this, no matter what it is (including what we've been through), we better accept it, deal with it, and learn from it. Make this world a better place with our wisdom (where evr it may come from), if we don't, we'll all end up on Jerry Springer [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com] !<P>Eric

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<BR>edited by claudia103<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Claudia103 (edited March 12, 2000).]

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Eric,<BR>Believe me, this is making me a better person. If I can completely recover from this, I think I could conquer the world! LOL<P>About the responsibility thing. I wasn't prepared to have a child either. I was young and in college and had alot of growing up to do. But I did it! I wanted to be a good mother, and I wanted my H to be a good husband and father. Don't get me wrong though. It doesn't take a wedding for a person to be responsible for their child. I never forced him to marry me. Of course, now I hear all the time how I "trapped" him and made him get married. I just let it roll off cause I know better.<P>Take care,<BR>Mitzi

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Eric,<BR> Not a bad observation. Mt H had an affair when our son was 18mths old and lasted 18mths. It ended on D-day April 25 (It's getting close [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com] ). We had been together for 8years and I was 25yrs and H was 28yrs when my son was born. We waited for a long time until we got married and I was ready (he realy wanted a baby sooner). So it was a planned baby and we were very ready! Since we have been in recovery, H has said that he was feeling left out. He also has a difficult time identifing his feelings, sharing them and was a people pleaser. We were great parents and still are! Life changes so much after a baby - less 'us' time, social life changes, money flow becomes less. JUST asked H what he thought and he said that they were factors but to say this may not of happened if the pressures of new parenthood wasn't part of the ingredience: is difficult to know. <P>Any other takers with some input?? Take Care,BECCA

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My H's affair started when we had a two year old also, but we had already made it through the terrible two's five times.

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While this may be a commonality, every situation is different.<P>Many of the replies so far have mostly addressed the immaturity of the betrayer.<P>I am the betrayed. I don't believe it is that simple. I have a 5 and 2 year old.<P>The transition to being a parent is an incredibly difficult one. I read a good book on this at the time. No matter how badly we want it, or how ready we think we are, one day we are suddenly there.<P>We did not know all this good stuff about meeting needs. I know, at least for us, we started moving apart. Like an angle in geometry, at first the lines are still close together. But you draw it out, and they are much further apart at the other end.<P>We all have our expectations. I was very unhappy with him as a father.<P>He felt left out.<P>The snowball built up. Though there were many other factors in his having an affair, we were both unhappy in our marriage almost since the 5 year old was born.<P>A sense of duty and committment can carry one, but not indefinitely. Some can go on without having their needs met for a long time. I did. The results of that rift in 1995 were felt more and more. In 1998, he started looking outside the marriaged for fulfillment.<P>Is there a point, then?? We go to through at least 12 grades at school. Yet we aren't taught how to have good relationships, much less how to be a parent, and how to adjust as a couple to being a parent.<P>The most important roles we have, and most of us were taught NOTHING. Unless you were lucky enough to have exceptional parents.

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I do not have children under 5...the other trend I noticed is that this often happens when the kids are teens and start going off to college....and spouses MLC sets in in a very negative way. The more children there are, where one partner is not prepared to shoulder some of the child rearing aspects, makes the rift deeper especially where infidelity is involved. It is as if the betraying spouse is competing for ones attention in an adolescent and juvenile way, mirroring their own children's behaviour. <P>Teen years and terrible twos are difficult enough as it is.

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My X told me she was unhappy in the marriage for 10 yrs. We have a 12 yo daughter and 10 yr old son. She also told me she had tried Christianity, marriage and children and could find happiness. Now she has given up all three.<P>My x was never really into that maotherhood thing like a lot of mothers I know, my kids were brought up to be pretty independent. I guess I was the one that spoiled them more than her. She always seemed like she wanted them to be older than they were.<P>I think one part of the MLC she is suffering is called "quiet nest" were the kids are more involved with their friends than they are with the parents. So add that to the lack of appreciation she was feeling from me, then I think this made her ripe for the affair.

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Eric,<P>I was with my ex for 10 years. We had a rough time when our first daughter was 18 months, then when our second daughter was 18 months (and oldest was 3) then now again, our youngest is 2. *my kids are now 9,7 and 2. Yes, MY h missed out on terrible two's all three times. I noticed it in my own life, and wondered myself.<P>Two year olds are very demanding. It takes a toll on the parent that is the primary caregiver, and also, the marriage itself. Once my older one's hit 4 we were good again, not that I blame any of this on my kids,but in my own life, yes, over 10 years, and 3 kids all around 18 months for me.<P>Yes a lot of new people here everyday. I see more and more failures, divorce, giving up than I see recovery. I wonder if part of it, is this country has no morals anymore. I was basically told by a judge and a lawyer, that my marriage is just a piece of paper, and also, so is the divorce. I have a bad feeling towards marriage and WILL NEVER want to do this again. I myself, gave up on the marriage when H served me with D papers. Don't know if you follow my story, but I would like to see some more recovery and less divorce. It would be so much better.<P>Is there a site where we can find more detailed stats on divorce? SUch as primary reasons for divorce? I believe its affairs and money. <P>Dana<BR>

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<BR>I'm with schizzo on this. Everytime people undergo a transitional period in life, the danger of infidelity rises. Getting married is a transitional period, so cheating is likely then. Becoming a parent is a transitional period. And the so-called mid-life crisis, where we realize that we won't meet all of our life's aspirations, is a transitional period. <P>I think the parent thing is particularly dangerous, though. I'm not dumping on all women here, but exhaustion, hormone issues (e.g., from breastfeeding), and the curious belief among some people that "mothers don't have sex" (by either the husband or the wife) can lead to an unmet need for sex. You know the rest of the story [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P>Bystander

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I don't post often anymore....part of it YOUNG KIDS 3 AND 6... but mostly it's because every moment is consumed with parenting, taking care of a home & pooch and most of all, giving my husband UNDIVIDED attention as soon as the kids go off to bed.<P>... I'm not sure this belongs in this category....but<P>In reading this thread, I agree with Schizzo. I'm not so sure it's the weight of the kids as much as "THERE IS NOT ALOT OF ENERGY LEFT FOR EACH OTHER" once the kids have all been taken care of. All things left "untended" will die [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com] <P> [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com] Don't blast me ..... there are times when Dad or Mom just can't come before kids.... kids need to be clean, fed, loved, talked to and a bunch of other things that many times simply outweigh....just sitting and talking with your spouse. <P>However, I have to be honest with myself about how I contributed to my husband's infidelity by WAITING, WAITING, WAITING...for a free moment. Sadly, someone else came up with the time first, and WHAMMMMO ! <P>We're in recovery and I'm feeling realy solid about our future together [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com] However, I have made alot of changes to how I interact with the hubster and what I do with my time !<P> [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com] Don't get me wrong...he bears some of the responsibility, like...working too much, not showing affection, alot of angry responses, taking stress out on myself and the kids, LETTING ME DO EVERYTHING AND THEN COMPLAINING I'M TOO TIRED FOR HIM.... [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com] [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com] but enough about that !!<P>So what's different now ?<BR>hugs and kisses when he gets home from work, dates...away from the kids a couple times a month, a small inexepensive present once in a while, genuine interest in his day, ASKING FOR HIS HELP AND NOT TRYING TO DO EVERYTHING and a bunch more things [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com] [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com].<P>I guess the biggest area of change is something mentioned in Harley's recent newsletter and that is not letting a day go by without showing him I care and love him ...in a way that he values it himself. I especially like the 3rd way Harley speaks to knowing whether your spouse is in love.... <B>..asking yourself...should he be love with me ?? </B> Harley also speaks to making sure you don't TAINT your answers by guessing and making your spouses needs equate to the things you are doing or the things you are doing well. <BR> <BR> [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com] Another blasting opportunity....does he always do this stuff for me...no way...but have I learned a better way to communicate my needs ? yes ! and has it helped? Yes, enormously ! Has it helped enough ....so that I don't get turned off completely and allow a huge rift to develop ? Yes....<P>Most importantly, is he now participating and also working on our relationship ? YES. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P>We've had quite a few ups and downs....affair came to light in Jan 99...lots of months doing Plan A, some counselings with Harley and others....almost started Plan B (the same night I planned to tell him what my plans were....he talked to me from the heart and it's been nearly all positive since <I> not easy mind you...just postive </I>)...We started recovery in Nov 99. <P><BR>Anyway...long post to say....kids or no kids...give your spouse time and the other 3 gifts Harley speaks to.....<P>-Tina<p>[This message has been edited by TFloyd (edited March 06, 2000).]


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