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I found a letter in his pocket he is writting to me. I need help fast on how to handle this.<BR> It said he has told me that he hates my 20 questions and I don't stop. That he wants to be friends, but I do the questions and it makes him angry, that he thinks about trying sex, but I do the ? and he is turned off. <BR> That my telling him I love him is about me, nothing is about him.<BR> That my snooping makes him angry, some of my accusations are true and some are not.<BR> <BR> How should I respond? I want to thank him for sharing his feelings. I want to tell him the questions are because I feel so insecure and that I feel how closed to me he is and queations are the only way I know to communicate whe he is so silent and angry.<BR>I want to tell him I know when he has been with her because he is even more closed off and withdrawn. OK, I probably shouldnt ay those last 2 .<BR> Please help me quick and give me some ideas so I don't blow it and tell him to leave.<BR>Lora

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Lora,<P>You can't respond until he gives you the letter. <P>He doses not like your snooping, remember?<P>Keep quite, he may never give it to you.

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Read your E-mail!!

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Joe,<BR> Yes, I meant respond once he gave it to me.<P>Dazed,<BR> Thanks, I read my mail. I know I feel insecure and have low self esteem and I am trying to work on it. My questons are not usually trying to get him to talk about our relationship or to reassure me though. Like last night I came home and he had been out all day probably saw OW and whe I got home I asked, What did you do today? He is so silent and withdrawn at times I don't know what to say except to draw him out with questions. Or else we would say nothing. But I get it. It is not working! It would probably be better to say nothing all evening than to make him more mad by the questions right?<BR>Lora

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Maybe try to come up with a list of things he could tell you about on a regular basis that would ease your questioning. Make a request for him to be open and honest with you so you don't have to pry it out of him.<P>Personally, I don't think there is anything wrong with asking questions and knowing what is going on with your husband. Perhaps knowing ahead of time what information you need from him will help. That way he can choose when to reveal it rather than being put on the spot by 20 questions. He's made a request, (Or is going to) for you to stop asking so many questions. I think it is perfectly fair for you to make a request that he divulge to you on a regular basis<P>1. What he does with his day.<P>2. Who he sees<P>3. How he feels<P>4. What his plans for the future are.<P>etc...<P>There is a good list of questions somewhere. Can't remember if it is on this site or in the Lovebuster's book, but that is a good start. Because he is leading the second life he's going to tell you till he stops that he doesn't want you prying. It's a symptom. My husband suddenly became very protective of his wallet. He used to hand me his wallet on a regular basis for me to get stuff out of so I got real used to going in it for his driver's license and stuff without asking for permission. He had never mentioned minding it. Then the affair began, and suddenly I constantly snoop. I came across her phone number while doing what I normally do. Going after his driver's license to fill out an application. Bam! I'm the enemy, and it's all my fault. <P>It was his sudden lack of openness that caused my suspicions to begin with. Duh! Then after I found stuff I started looking for more. Then I was snooping. It took awhile to curb this. I just didn't feel very good about myself going behind his back. I still need the same basic information though. I simply made a request that he give me this information openly, and in return I would stop seeking it for myself. <P>I still think there is nothing wrong with getting the information. Just in the methods by which we get it.

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OK, heres the exact letter:<P> Over the years I have asked you to stop the 20 ? to no avail.<BR> Its always been everything for Lora and nothing for H<BR> you tell me you love me, but then its still just for you...you still don't care about my feelings.<BR> I feel out of love with you and no matter what I did to become friends again I got undermined and more stressed and upset and your snooping and some accusations, some true and some not! There were some days I thought I'd try to have sex with you and you'd start playing 20? and I'd back off right back into my shell, angrier than ever.<P> Help!!!! I know he is giving me more info than I had before, but its hard to get past the hurt. Why does he think this is all about me? Am I really going through this for selfish reasons? Obvoisly I am not meeting his needs. Can anyone help me sort out what they are from this letter? <BR>Lora

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Sorry, but I think beth28 is off-base in this case. If your H hates what he calls the 20 questions, then why on earth would he respond positively to a request to know what he does, who he sees, how he feels, etc.<P>I maintain that your H is giving you a TON of information in just these few sentences; information that you can use to improve your marriage.<P>I suspect that you may be a bit of a control freak. I know all about that; I am one too. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P>Your H doesn't want to talk or answer questions. That's a fact. That's something you cannot change by saying "Talk to me" or "Fill out this questionnaire" or "Talk to this counselor." Maybe he doesn't even know what's in his own head; not all of us are introspective.<P>He sees you as narcissistic, that much is clear. Are you? Not all the time, but sometimes? I am. Every time my H lost a job, what went through my mind was "What does this mean for me? How will I pay the bills? How will I deal with his depression?" All of it was what his situation would do to ME, not about how HE felt. Now, maybe my concerns were legitimate, but the bottom line was that HE felt neglected and HE felt I wasn't supportive. And Dragon Lady was. It was very hard for me to realize that I have these tendencies, because my mother is the most narcissistic person I've ever known. Her husband right now has cancer in the lung, and HE has to prop HER up.<P>These things are hard to acknowledge in ourselves, but I think this is what your H is telling you that you do.<P>We don't know your H, so we don't know what his needs are. But when he gives you the letter, I think you might have the opportunity to ASK him what he needs. Don't expect him to say, "I need A, B, C", because he probably can't articulate it that way. But he will give you clues. What are the "20 question", anyway? Maybe he sees you as prying or smothering (because of your insecurities) and he feels imprisoned. Maybe he can't handle too much intimacy. We don't know. But you can find out.<P>Sure, it hurts. Sure, it's unfair. And the way to get past the hurt is to talk. Talk here, talk via E-mail, talk, talk, talk. Just don't vent to HIM about it. <P>Men HATE to talk about relationships, they want them to "just happen." So you need to make yours work and let him THINK it's "just happening."

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR><B>you tell me you love me, but then its still just for you...you still don't care about my feelings.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Maybe what H is hearing is not the same thing that you are saying. Especially if H is feeling defencive.<P>I tried this and was shocked when I heard myself. <P>Get a small portable tape recorder and record an actual conversation between you & H, with you asking these questions.<P>Listen to the tape when you are alone... listen closely to your voice. <P>Is there a hint of accusation in your voice?<BR>Is there a hint of irritation in your voice?<P>What do you hear? Is there anything you can do to improve what you are saying or how you are saying it?<P>Sometimes it will really open your eyes to hear yourself the way others hear you. It did for me!<P>Keo<P>

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I really don't know what to say other than that I think D&C is right. I don't have much words of wisdom right now, but I know my H hated feeling like he was being interrogated(so to speak)and he wasn't the one that had A. But anyways Lora, I just want you to know you have my support and prayers.<P>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Lora}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<BR><P>------------------<BR>"If you can learn from the mistakes of others, you won't have to make them youself."<P>lady_divine77@yahoo.com

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Lora: Your situation brings to mind a couple that I have known for years since I was a child. They have since passed away, but I use their marriage as a guideline on how not to run or ruin mine. This couple had a stressful and somewhat tumultuous marriage. I have no idea if the husband was unfaithful to the wife, but they stayed married for over 50 years. The wife, however was very verbally abusive to the husband. If he was caught talking to the neighbor lady, he was raked over the coals big time. There would be days where she would explode for no reason. She had so much pent up anger that she let him have it every chance she got. Again, I don't know what transpired between them in the early years, but there was alot of animosity on her part. I often felt sorry for him, but at the same time for her. To feel so much anger and not be able to move on. I did not want that for myself. There were good days between them. Maybe that's why he stayed or maybe he truly loved her. It makes me cry to know that both were hurting. This couple was my grandparents with whom I was raised. I made the decision that I was not going to be like my grandmother, however,I went totally the other direction. After a few years of playing 20 questions, I stopped completely and started doing things my own way. I started my own bank account, credit line and picked up a few OM along the way. I stopped communicating with my spouse. I figured that he would rather speak to his female friends instead of me, then I would get my own life and forget him.(childish act of revenge) But...we stayed married. So not all of our marriage was bad. We just each went our own direction when it came to socializing. Going in the other direction is not the answer, but neither is playing a guessing game. Let him know that you cannot read his mind. Let him know that you are interested in him, his likes, dislikes, conversations etc...and would like to be able to communicate with him. He also needs to let down some of his defenses and not take every question as prying, but interest. It maybe difficult for him at this point because he has already developed a wall to keep you out. The goal for you both is to develop a trust amongst each other to be able to talk, agree, disagree, encourage, constructively criticize without feeling threatened. Similar to what Beth28 states, ask basic stuff such as "how was your day"; then tell him how your day went. How would you talk to a friend? Maybe listen to your conversation with one of your friends, co-workers etc... and apply some of that dialogue in your conversations with your spouse. Remember, he wants to be friends and we should be able to also like the person we love. Learn from those of us who have made the mistakes. Good luck to you and I will say a prayer for you.

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He won't respond favorably at first, but your need for honesty and openness is just as important as any of his needs. My guess is the way you've approached getting this need met in the past has put him on the defensive. (Maybe disrespectful judgements, angry outbursts.)<P>Again, I stick by my position. He doesn't have to keep secrets from you. There's a POJA in there for both of you. As I said before if you know exactly what it is you need to know to feel loved then explain to him in a nonjudgemental, calm way. He still has the choice to not follow through, but shutting up and still feeling all those feelings without knowing what's up with him is just going to cause your love bank to drain.<P>Not talking about it is withdrawal. It's the last stage in communication before it breaks down.<P>I'd approach it this way, and you can modify... I feel isolated, abandoned, scared, confused when I don't know certain things about your life. I also know that constantly asking you these things irritates you and I don't want to do that. Therefore, I need to know what you do with your day. Interesting conversations you've had,who has influenced your life, what makes you happy during the day, and what makes you sad, what dreams you have for the future, and what things from your past make up you. I love getting to know you. Do you have any ideas how I can get this information without having to resort to asking twenty questions?

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Oh the benefits of writing stuff down.<P>I'm going to modify my own statement. Last question...<P>What ideas do you have that will give me the information I need without resorting to twenty questions.<P>My husband would respond to the Do you question with no, and that would be the end of it. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

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Hi Lora,<P>I hope things work out for you. I don't really have any words of wisdom, everyone else has said what I thought, but couldn't verbalise so well.<P>The thought of your H being with, or seeing OW would be driving you mad. My H did exactly the same thing, he worked with her, and I nearly went insane. I did the snooping thing, found a letter he had written to her, etc etc etc, but all my questions were met with the classic<BR>'I DON'T KNOW' that's all I ever got.<P>Your H is trying to communicate with you, albeit not too effectively. But any communication is better than none. I usually got none.<P>Try and hear what he is saying. It's so hard I know, when you're hurting so badly. I had to get beneath, or below, or whatever, my own hurt and feelings, and try to listen to my H. It's a killer, but if you want your marriage to survive, YOU must do the hard work at this stage. Sucks, I know. I feel as tho he went off and found someone else, and I'm still the one picking up the pieces and trying to work on what happened. They should be doing this work, not us. However, it just doesn't work that way. That is something we have to accept, and deal with later.....<P>I feel for you, and wish there was more I could say or do. I have so many regrets about things that I did and said, before I started trying to really listen to him. All my regrets are from before I found this site. I hope this site is as good for you, as it is for me.<P>take care, and a big hug for you<P>Jo

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Lora,<P>By reading this note, you have found out something very important...your husband does not like to be interrogated. <P>Most men are very physically immodest, they do not care who sees them without clothing, to them, it just does not matter. However, most men are emotionally modest, they do not like anyone to know their inner most thoughts. Most women are exactly the opposite. However, after a man has emotionally connected with his wife through making love, he usually feels more comfortable exposing his feelings. <P>I suggest that you try this. Seduce your husband with no talking or questions whatsoever. Then afterwards, listen to his conversation. Don't ask, just listen. Perhaps ask if he would like to have some water or say something else that is equally innocuous. Look at his reaction. <P>Many times women want their husbands to open up before men are ready. This only makes them close up more. Men have to be prepared to reveal themselves in conversation (wow! this really sounds like the same way that women get ready to make love)before they are willing to get into the deep stuff. Talk about innocuous things and kind of let your husband lead the conversation. After you have built up a trusting relationship, your husband will be able to respond to you. Just my opinion, but it may be worth a try.<P>May the Lord Bless You and Keep You,<BR>John

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Oooh golly can I relate! My husband showed me early on that my constant questions were not appreciated. There was no intent behind it, I have a form of high functioning Autism that causes me to delve ever deeper until I can fully understand the meaning of something he has said. Too many possible interpretations.<P>But at this point, it's about so much more than the questions. He is out of love with you, and the few times he has even thought of touching you, you start up again. He is about to stop trying.<P>This is a critical time in your relationship, and it is a time where you have to train yourself to stop. Whether you trust him, whether you have self-esteem issues, you are going to have to find some other resource for that validation. You seem to need too much from him, and it is wearing him down.<P>Back off but fast! Stop asking him a million questions, try to catch yourself and ask him to help you. Tell him that somebody pointed out to you recently that you have a tendency to ask question after question after question and how irritating and annoying it is, and you never were really aware of it before. That will open the door for him to discuss this with you, without ever having to give you that letter. Ask him to help you, to gently point out to you when you are "doing it again" and you have to make yourself stop. The value within you comes from what you do and who you are, and not from him or anybody else.<P>You can turn this around but you have to act quickly. I've had to learn how to just shut up and listen. Often when he is telling me something about one of his kids, or something at work, he is not asking for my input, he is just relating and retelling. I had to learn how to listen, without asking questions or proffering my own thoughts.<P>You can do this!

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I HAVE TO AGREE WITH D & C . SEVERAL MONTHS AGO ( LAST MAY) I PLAYED THE 20 QUESTIONS GAME LOTS OF TIMES WITH MY HUSBAND. I DIDN'T RELIZE HOW MUCH HE TRULY HATED THIS UNTIL THE AFFAIR WAS FOUND OUT. I ASKED HIM TO LEAVE, HE DID BUT TRIED EVERYTHING TO MEND THINGS WITH ME.I FOUND OUT HE REALLY HATED IT WHEN I PLAYED THE 20 QUESTIONS GAME. SO NOW I DON,T QUESTION HIM BUT HE KNOWS THERE ARE NO MORE SECOND CHANCES . I LEARNED THAT I WAS BEING HIS MOTHER AND NOT HIS WIFE AND FRIEND AND YES THIS WAS CAUSING ME TO BE LESS DESIREABLE TO HIM.

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Lora Offline OP
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So much good advice, so hard to do! I'm sorry I don't have time to answer everyone seperatly right now, but I thank you all for your responses.<BR> I just feel so defeated. I don't know if I can do this anymore. I know I do have control issues, I think I am not good enough or loveable enough and if I can just figure out how to do things right and say them right I can be better. But I can't do it.<BR> I think I ask the questions because I can't share my feelings. I can't say I feel anxious and think you are leaving me for another woman so I ask where he has been. I feel like I have a huge blockage that doesn't allow me to speak my feelings. In order to ask him to call Steve I had to practice for 3 days. I snoop to try and control things too, and if I don't find anything I feel a little better.<BR> I will print your answers and try to understand them in more depth later. Thank you again.<BR>Lora

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OK, now we're getting somewhere. This isn't about OW, it's about YOU and YOUR self-esteem. My goodness, we are a lot alike, aren't we?<P>A few months back, my therapist told me that when I'm anxious about something else, or upset about something else, I focus it on Dragon Lady. Of course lately, I've been focusing it on work, being afraid of being fired (an irrational fear), but no matter.<P>Do you have any issues in your family background regarding "triangles"? I have tons of them. In any situation involving three people -- me and two others, I always assume the other two will gang up on me and hurt me. PS -- my mother does this; it's always her and another person against a third person. Something to discuss in therapy.<P>Also regarding 20 questions: This is about reassurance. My mom used to ask me 150 times, in 150 ways, whether her hair looked ok. Finally I started just answering it once, and she's starting to realize that I will not respond to more. And PS -- she was no more reassured after 150 than after 1.<P>Here's another 20 questions story for you: When I was a kid, my parents split up -- not amicably, no other person involved. My father just couldn't take my mother anymore. We saw my father every Saturday and when I'd get home, my mother would sit me down in a chair and interrogate me. Yes, just like you see in the movies. She wanted to know every word he said; every nuance, an entire recap of the afternoon. If she thought I was holding back on her, she'd scream at me to try to remember more. I'd sit and cry with frustration, becaue I couldn't remember, I was telling the truth, and I couldn't understand why she was so angry with me.<P>I suspect your H feels much the way I did during those sessions.<P>If your H tells you he went to work, had lunch with Jack at Fridays during which he drank 1-1/2 Sam Adams Spring Lagers, talked to Mary his secretary for 5.2 minutes in the afternoon about Spring Training Baseball, ate a Kit-Kat at 3:22 PM, got into his car at 5:04 and accidentally ran a red light at Main Street, you'll STILL wonder about OW. You will. Trust me. <P>BECAUSE THIS IS NOT ABOUT REASSURANCE! This is about you feeling unworthy. This is where it started, and this is where you have to attack it -- with YOU, and the way you view yourself. <P>Remember...you can't control what he does; you can only control what you do.<P>And men take things at face value. Even if they know what your issues are (and mine knows what mine are), they will react based on how THEY perceive your actions...not on what you mean or what the origin is. All he sees is that you don't trust him. Now, granted, he's now giving you good REASON not to trust him. But I suspect that in his mind, he just feels as trapped and frustrated as I did sitting in that chair.<P>What you need to do is get counseling for YOU. Because I would guess that your self-esteem predate your marriage by a long time. The better you feel about yourself, the more able you'll be to feel you're just as good as OW. And you'll behave accordingly.

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Now I am truely depressed. I had written a long reply to each of you and it kicked me off AOL and erased it!!! Now I don't have the time to redo it.<BR>Thank you all for the replys. I will stop asking questions today.<BR> But it does make me a little mad as I do not beleive I asked the questions before he had been going out for 5 months and I started to notice his distance. Now it is almost like he plays a game to not tell me anything so I have to ask the questions to have any informatin. But I will stop.<BR>For example I know he has a massage appointment today and he doesn't need to keep that a seceret. But I was going to call her and ask her to house sit. I will be at work, so I asked him to call her and he still didn't tell me he had an appointment.<P>I really need help to try and show him I love him. Telling him is not working. I wrote a letter telling him why also. I try to do the things around the house, and cook him lunch when I am home. I try to cuddle with him in bed. I try to do recreational act he wants. Can you all give me some other things to try?<BR>Lora

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Counseling will help. It helps to take some of the anxiety away. However, the point is not to come to a place where you simply decide it's best to not communicate with your husband at all about how you are feeling. (That place is just way too lonely)<P>As for asking things in the right way. I had this fear for nine months. Absolutely couldn't tell my husband how I felt, and that lack of sharing had me feeling like I was a walked on piece of carpet who was only there to make him dinner. I felt very much like a slave. I was lonely, angry, depressed. The lack of communication killed me more than the affair itself. Suddenly I felt like the roomate he had claimed I'd become. Read the stuff on this site about communication. We were effectively in withdrawal. It wasn't that long ago I started communicating with him again about how I felt. (You can read the beginnings of it in my posts here.) As for the fear...it's still there. What I do to conquer it is to write the things I'm feeling down. I put off tackling the issue for a couple of days until I can look at it, and the way I want to approach it. After I have the plan down, and I'm confident I can do this without LB's I ask him for a time we can discuss stuff. He likes when I write it to him, and then he comes back at a later point to discuss it more. The act of writing a letter to him puts a filter on how I give him information. John Gray has an excellent format on a letter in his book "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus." Sometimes we talk about it face to face (which is a little scarier because you are less prepared to not get defensive), but the act of asking him for a good time, and giving him time to prepare to listen really helps.<P>There is one catch. The asking part has to come with an understanding that he's not going to put you off indefinitely. (As a general rule our counselor stated that issue conversations should never be put off more than one hour.)<P>It takes practice. You'll goof up a couple of times and upset him for sure, but don't sweat it. It's a learning process, and with each time you effectively do it you strengthen the bond between the two of you.<P>The big thing is to keep POJA in mind. You two will need to work out a plan that works for both of you that will fulfill your need for information, reassurance, conversation etc... with his need for you not to resort to LB's (irritating 20 question habit, disrespectful judgements, criticism.)

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