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Joined: Sep 1999
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Thanks to schizzo for the idea.<P>Who here is implementing the POJA?<P>What is your experience? Does it seem impossible in the beinning but get easier?<P>Does it work? Does it get too complicated?<P>Does anyone feel it requires them to "give" more than they really want to?<P>Any "gotchas" to watch out for?<P>Were you reluctant to try but did anyway? What were you afraid of? Did it come true?<P>I am eager to try this but W is not willing yet. Please share your experience.

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2sad4words:<P>My wife and I have been using it for a long time now, and it works extremely well, and gets to be virtually transparent to implement after a while.<P>If your wife isn't willing to use this (and my wife wasn't when I started), I suggest that you either explain it to her, or have her read about it. Tell her that you're going to try to implement it for your side of the marriage:<P>"Never benefit at your wife's expense"<P>and ask her for her honest feedback when you discuss issues with her. You'll be doing it for her benefit, and she'll probably be more willing to go along. Eventually, she'll pick up on the fact that this is a good thing for a marriage, and probably give it a try.

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K,<P>Thanks for the response. Was your W enthusuastic about using POJA? Did you have to convince her?

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Up to the top for one more try. <P>Helloooooo?

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2sad4words:<P>My wife was having an affair when I suggested this. I could have suggested that I shackle her to an old pickup truck and drive it into the lake and gotten a similar response... [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P>But, if your wife isn't enthusiastic about using the POJA, ask her if she'd be OK with you using it for her benefit. This is the <P>"never benefit at your spouse's expense" clause.<P>If she says OK, use language that Harley uses when asking her if she's OK with something that you're planning (or any other time that you think an action will affect her).<P>My wife is "enthusiastic" about it now, because she's seen how it works. I simply taught her this by doing it myself (and not overtly "educating" her).<P>If your wife says "no" to even you using the POJA one-sidedly, use it anyways (it's basically being thoughtful and considerate with how your actions affect your spouse). Just don't use the lingo.<P>

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Yes, it works extremely well. I would not live any other way.<P>As K said, it gets to be second nature after a while.<P>The steps are in SAA. Yeah, use it on your side. The hardest part was to slow down and repeat my understanding of what h wanted. I always want to rush over to the brainstorming.<P>But it is important to show each other that you have heard and understood their position.<P>Why is your w against it??

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schizzo,<P>Not really sure why W is against it. She won't even read the books. Only filled out the ENQ because our counselor recommended it (I suggested he check out the MB site).<P>It may be a control issue - she doesn't want to because I want her to.<P>It may be because it would require compromise (she isn't good at that - sees compromise as a "loss" for her and a "win" for me)<P>It may be because she is still not fully part of the recovery process - still doesn't love me, no affection, etc.<P>Wish I knew. I'm really glad to hear that when it is implemented it works. It just makes sense that it would. <P>Hey, check out my new signature!<P>------------------<BR>But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control.<BR>Galatians 5:22-23

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2sad4words:<P>Let's take apart your last post:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>It may be a control issue - she doesn't want to because I want her to.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Good observation. So be very careful about tying this to demands.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>It may be because it would require compromise (she isn't good at that - sees compromise as a "loss" for her and a "win" for me)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Completely understandable, considering where your wife is right now in the marriage. You should implement this as a one sided version to demonstrate that this principle causes wins for her. It won't be overnight, but a good 3 month effort will really get noticed, I'm betting.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>It may be because she is still not fully part of the recovery process - still doesn't love me, no affection, etc.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>So the bottom line is you need to figure out behaviors that she will appreciate, that will fill her lovebank (or keep it from draining), and get her to a point where she feels OK to share affection.<P>Using the POJA, even one sided, is a great way to start down that road.

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K,<P>Already begun. <P>I wonder if this will finally help me breakthrough the barriers [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com] or will end up burning me out completely [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com].<P>------------------<BR>But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control.<BR>Galatians 5:22-23

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2sad4words;<P>An important piece of advice. These new behaviors you are trying to establish must be consistant to be effective. They've got to stick with you for the rest of your marriage.<P>So don't go doing things you can't sustain for the long haul. Your wife is sitting on the fence, and you've got to exhibit consistancy to get her off and back to you.<P>In other words, don't burn yourself out.<P>

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K,<P>Yeah, I know my changes need to be permanent. That is not what I mean by burning out. What I am talking about is the disappointment and depression that sets in when the giving is unilateral for a long time. The changes I make in me are supposed to eventually elicit changes in her, right?<P>So far we are more than half a year into this with counseling once a week etc. and she still can't so much as tell me she loves me or hold my hand.<P>As you say... <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Using the POJA, even one sided, is a great way to start down that road.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>It is a start. I am happy to go first and invite her to join me. But it is not a long term option. Eventually you could start to feel used.<P>------------------<BR>But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control.<BR>Galatians 5:22-23


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