I read the post from Genie29 "What is the relationship like between a WS and the OP?" which was very enlightening. It made me realize that what I am looking for right now is unreasonable as he has yet to go through his withdrawal in its entirety. <P>This is wonderful to know because the guilt and shame, and what not, that I've been waiting to see really had me believing I am a fool to even be trying to make this marriage work. But I understand now that he is still in another world, hasn't come back to reality yet. And when he does, after he completes his withdrawal, I will likely see what I've been waiting for.<P>For right now though, the counselor has requested that I begin trusting him again, even if just a little. The "truth" has only been out in the open for 3 weeks though it all began 5 weeks ago. (H likes slow and painful deaths!) Given this is the third time he has betrayed me, and the other two times I did Plan A --for which he continues to give as a reason for why he continued his behavior...because he didn't find that I was so greatly devistated based on my behavior--I don't have any of my "senses" telling me that now is the time to give him a break. <P>He is moved out but we still have kept in contact. Although, we are moving for a more real separation with very minimal contact because I keep love busting by probing him for answers. Can't help it so this is how we agreed to "protect" what is left of our relationship...more distance. <P>He is doing wonderful things at my request to change himself and admittedly he does seem sincere. However, I prefer to watch from afar and take notes on his progress than to begin trusting him. <P>The last time I trusted him, it turns out he didn't cope with the withdrawal and in a very short time was back on the phone with the OW all the while working through counseling with me, making promises, seemingly walking the walk and not just talking the talk. So I've been hurt big time with all of his lies and deception.<P>My H, I find, is the type of person who doesn't learn until he's lost it all. You know, some have to hit bottom first before they wake up. That seems to be how he is. <P>I'm very concerned that if I do as the counselor asks, and it seems she is dismissing his history with me, that I will be repeating the same mistakes from the past. She doesn't say to forget and start with a clean slate but simply to move forward and to do so means to trust.<P>He is still in love with the other woman and feels it will be months more before he can honestly say he no longer loves her for he hasn't even thought long enough to figure out why he loves her in the first place. Until he can say he no longer loves her, he is not going to live under the same roof as me. And once he does stop loving her, I agreed to start trusting him again, in very small doses. <P>But given his continued love for her, given his confession that Plan A doesn't work in my favor, given he has barely begun to go through withdrawal and still has such a long way to go...isn't it awfully premature to be trusting him, even a little?<P>

Is There Hope;<P>When I read post such as yours it allows me to "put the Shoe on the other foot" since I am the betrayer. Honestly, I could not see how you could trust him, not now anyway. Trust is not given, it is earned. I think HE has a long way to go to earn your trust.<P>You are also correct in your statement about your H. I will change one thing here that you said. I would say "most" men have to hit rock bottom before they realize what they have lost. I am still searching for the right answers to a lot of questions, so I cannot offer much adivce. But to trust him right now, NO. I can answer one thing. "Is There Hope"? Yes there is.<P>fs

Remember trusting someone can not make them trustworthy.<P>I was afraid to trust for a long time...until I realized I couldn't control my H behavior, whether I trusted him or not...that was up to him.<P>It somehow made trusting easier because I was not holding myself responsible for an outcome I could not control.<P>But since this so fresh...I think you distrust is almost primal...and appropriate. You can choose to move toward trust, but most betrayers are not trustworthy at this point.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Firestorm<P>Thank you for your reply and support for my feelings. I find it means more coming from someone in your position. My H also feels that he doesn't deserve to be trusted right now...I think perhaps the counselor senses the huge wall of protection I have up and is concerned that my H's efforts will be for nothing. She says my "door is shut tight" so I told her not to worry, I have a window I'm looking out! ;-)<P>I'm not familiar with your own situatuion yet but may I ask based on your own situation, do you feel it would be unreasonable for your spouse (or me in my own situation) to not begin to trust you again (or me trust my H) until the OP is completely out of your head and heart? I just don't see how I could do so even a day sooner.... Just curious on what would be reasonable timing.<P>Thanks again for your reply. It's been helpful and reassuring. Best of luck to you.

Faith Hope Love<P>Your reply is appreciated and right on the mark...I'm beginning to feel like I need to send my counselor into this forum so she can read some of the wisdom I've come across as well. <P>Oddly enough, as much as I want this marriage to work, I have too resigned myself to the fact that I can't control him. The counselor has asked me many questions about his actions and how I will react if "this, that or the other" and I keep telling her much of what you have said here...I can't control him, if he's going to screw up his life again then so be it, so long as he knows I won't go through this again with him.<P>I agree that he would not be trustworthy at this time. I'm sure he would agree, too, if in on such a vote! LOL I wonder though, you say "at this time", what is your opinion as to when would be a more appropriate time to try and open the door to trust? My own feeling was when he can honestly say he no longer loves this OW and no longer has fond feelings for her of any kind, craving is gone, he fully accepts the relationship IS over forever. <P>Thanks again for your thoughts and the best of luck to you.