Welcome to the
Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum

This is a community where people come in search of marriage related support, answers, or encouragement. Also, information about the Marriage Builders principles can be found in the books available for sale in the Marriage Builders® Bookstore.
If you would like to join our discussion forum, please read the Announcement Forum for instructions, rules, & guidelines.
The members of this community are peers and not professionals. Professional coaching is available by clicking on the link titled Coaching Center at the top of this page.
We trust that you will find the Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum to be a helpful resource for you. We look forward to your participation.
Once you have reviewed all the FAQ, tech support and announcement information, if you still have problems that are not addressed, please e-mail the administrators at mbrestored@gmail.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 2 1 2
#382476 05/30/00 03:56 PM
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 310
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 310
Popeye - Were you married to my ex-H's twin?!? Your post hit a nerve - it's like I could have written the words myself - I have even said some of the same things to other people in trying to explain his behavior!! I, too, adored my H, did everything I could to show my love for him, and he did nothing but reject me. What is it with these dysfunctional people, anyway? We had everything, but he wanted only what he could not have, and threw our marriage away to be with a twice divorced piece of trailer-park trash. Go figure!!

#382477 05/30/00 04:17 PM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 60
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 60
If I could articulate as well as you, I could be writing about my own H and how he was in our relationship. <P>I also have heard from others that OW oozes over my H muscles and physique. (he quit working out once we married but started again when he left me for her). My H also always, in everything, would look for the greener grass. Getting him to decided on most anything was near impossible. Even something as simple as choosing a roofer. I still do not have a new roof on our home and the buckets have been full for 3 years...soon...I will be able to take care of it without his blessing without being told how ignorant I am to do something necessary without his okaying it.<P>One area of difference I see between your H & mine, the main area I went wrong, I never adored my H and he knew that. I finally began to see that since Ive had to look at myself and see my contributions. I never realized it until his affair was exposed. From what Im learning though, it may not have made any difference. I guess as long as a person is unwilling to make changes within his/herself, they will never find happiness with anyone. Time will tell.<P>I totally agree with what you said.<P>It really doesn't matter what side of the infidelity equation you are on, if you take responsibility for what you've done and make a better you from it, you've succeeded!<P>Thanks<P>Take care,<BR>Kris

#382478 05/30/00 06:11 PM
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 3,631
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 3,631
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by popeye:<BR><B> I think you are far too generous in your appraisal of this woman. She may be funny and beautiful, but she's also STUPID, selfish, and of low moral character if she got involved with a married man. <P>Response: That would mean I fell in love with a stupid, selfish man of low moral character as well, wouldn't it? O.K.--I can already hear your answer! But we are HUMAN. You've never been stupid or selfish or had a moral/ethical lapse in your life? I have!<P>(Quote):Okay, so you weren't meeting your H's needs. What about his responsibility to meet yours? What about his responsibility to meet his own? We are all ultimately responsible for ourselves. If we find someone to complete us, we are lucky, but our happiness is our own responsibility.<P>Response: That's exactly what I said--and thanks to Dr. Harley we have the tools to do this now.<BR>I could make myself happy selfishly or I could do it with my partner in mind like I would expect him to do likewise.<P>(Quote): The fact that the OW was so capable at meeting your H's needs points more to her evil, in my opinion. She exploited his vulnerabilities and used them to her advantage to tear your relationship apart- and that is to be applauded and admired? No, use that as leverage so that it doesn't happen to you again. <P>Response: Not evil, Popeye, human. Vulnerable, faulty in judgment, hurting, depressed, alone and desperate. She's not your OW. My H reached out to her the exact same way we both always reach out to people. She met EN's naturally. No calculated moves. Applaud? No. Understand, hell yeah. And you better believe this was a lesson we all won't forget.<P>(Quote): Your H's OW was not a day at the beach. She was a whore just like the rest of our OWs. It's nice that you can see your side in this and blame the H instead of this woman, but in my opinion, you are far too kind to her and far too hard on yourself. <P>Response: Whore? Not this OW. Sorry but it just does not apply here. This is my story, not yours, remember. Me and OW are really nice people--alot alike. She was just in a weak state and really thought she found her soulmate. I've had occasions when I was weak and miserable in my marriage (EN's were ignored--comparing my H to what was around me at the time) and could have easily found myself in her shoes. <P>(Quote): Having said that, I must acknowledge that your point of view (focusing on what was missing) is great for healing purposes and letting go.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>It hurts so bad sometimes, Popeye. But if we don't elevate our minds above all this hate, we won't heal. We're only here for a short while--we don't know when we're going to leave this world and be judged ourselves. I'm not going to leave it with hate in my heart. Don't know how our stories will end but knock the behaviour if you must, not the people. It's more important to work positively. Being stuck in this black hole isn't going to move your forward. The black hole may help you feel vindicated but it ain't gonna love you back. Good luck to all of you and God Bless.<P>Leilana<P>P.S. Did we ALL marry the same man?!! <BR>This message has been edited by Leilana (edited May 30, 2000).]<p>[This message has been edited by Leilana (edited May 30, 2000).]

#382479 05/30/00 06:38 PM
Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 809
D
Member
Offline
Member
D
Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 809
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>As I see it, there is no getting around the fact that we are all responsible for meeting our own needs. The only way to happiness is through ourselves.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>If this is true, then why get married ever? I'm not trying to be flippant. What attracts us to that special someone? They meet (at least some of) our emotional needs.<BR>It's precisely because they do that, that we grow to love and eventually marry.<P>But after marriage the deal changes? "Sorry honey. But your happiness is your own responsibilty now. Don't look to me to provide those needs of yours. That was just for courtship."<P>Is it a reasonable expectation that one's spouse will continue to try and meet your needs after marriage--the same need-meeting that drew you to him/her in the first place?<P>Maybe Paul was right. Celibacy is best. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com] <p>[This message has been edited by Doug (edited May 30, 2000).]

#382480 05/30/00 06:45 PM
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 15,284
J
Member
Offline
Member
J
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 15,284
Popeye,<P>You said, <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>It really doesn't matter what side of the infidelity equation you are on, if you take responsibility for what you've done and make a better you from it, you've succeeded! As long as blame is still being tossed around and someone is passing responsibility for their happiness to someone else, there are bound to be unfulfilled people out there. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Have you done this? It would seem from your statements and anger that you haven't finished the process.<P>I realize you are blowing off steam and you have every right to do so. However, the genius of Harley's approach is to realize that the people that keep themselves happy and meet their own needs are very rare people. Most people marry to have parts of themselves fullfilled by another. <P>The reality of the needs is that it provides a mechanism to address a failing marriage, not an excuse for an affair or simply a failing marriage.<P>The reality is in some cases just as Leilana stated. She neglected the marriage and someone else came along that her H, attached to emotionally. However, it sounds as if Leilana's recognition of this has begun to sway things back into her favor.<P>So why am I posting to you? I guess to say it really doesn't profit you, you waste your time blaming everything on your H or soon to be exH. You had a role in the state of the marriage. He messed up big time with the affair, but the state of the marriage was both of your creation. <P>Learn from this so that your next relationship will be a much more successful one. I love the quote <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>" the best revenge is a life well lived".<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Seek your revenge by living well and happy.<P>To do that you need to learn from this and your chances of revenge will increase greatly. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P>As for what your H wanted from woman, the answer is very simple. It depends if you are talking about a spouse or a playmate. I doubt your H will marry any of the OW, but he seems to have some fun with them. If he does remarry he will very likely seek a woman somewhat like you. If he marries a playmate, it won't last long.<P>Finally, all of this may very well not be about you, but the state of the marriage and how he feels about himself. He may have needed some sort of validation and sought it in convenient places. I don't know I haven't talked with your H. But rest assured he is/was looking for something to ease some pain in his life.<P>So Popeye, please learn from this but let go of the anger, it is only going to hurt you. Someone on this board has a wonderful saying at the end of his messages "Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die". It is true of anger as well.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

#382481 05/30/00 07:05 PM
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 113
G
Member
Offline
Member
G
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 113
I know why I fell for the OM. He was charming, kind, good-looking, and my supervisor.<BR>I know why he had an A (he never fell for me) with me. I was 18 years younger than his wife, quiet at work, embarrassed by the bruises my h would leave on me in places I couldn't cover up. <BR>The OM thought I would never tell anyone because I had too much to loose because he thought I needed this job and my H would beat me. Scumbag. <BR>He thought he could play cassonova without any consequence. That I would be his timid little bunny (I'm small) with no morals (I was a dancer before I got married). Then he'd have both his loving arrogant PTA wife who gives him birthday parties at work and me, his pet whore, the best of both worlds.<BR>Only he misjudged me. I didn't need his stupid job and I wasn't afraid my H. And the<BR>OM misjudged my H. The OM never imagined my H would come after him.<BR>The cowardly OM got what he deserved.

#382482 05/30/00 08:15 PM
Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 809
D
Member
Offline
Member
D
Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 809
*<p>[This message has been edited by Doug (edited May 30, 2000).]

#382483 05/31/00 12:45 AM
Joined: Jun 1999
Posts: 373
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: Jun 1999
Posts: 373
I'm sorry you have such a selfish husband. Why don't you safe yourself a lot of additional unfair treatment leave him?<P>If you stay with him, you'll have to cut the martyr routine to find any happiness. This "look what I've done for you" business isn't going to change anything. It hasn't worked all this time. Find ways to have fun with him or you'll just be a bitter martyr. You can find plenty of attention, sympathy, and empathy in this forum but you deserve better.<P>I would leave the bum.<BR>

#382484 05/31/00 05:25 AM
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 747
P
popeye Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 747
Leilana,<BR>If you've read all or most of what I've posted here, you will know that I've never taken a position of judging or hating. However, I will say that I have called it like I see it and in my book, anybody who messes around with a MM is a whore. (Is that judging? I'd say it's a simple definition). She may have some other redeeming qualities, but she's still a whore. Can people change? Thankfully, yes, but it doesn't change the past behavior.<P>I can assure you I am not in a "black hole" looking for vindication. I'm not even embroiled in this drama anymore. I'm moving on. As for vindication, none is needed. I know my self worth.<P>Doug,<BR>I understand that I am different from most people here in that I am not Christian, American, or even Western European. That gives me a different outlook on so many things, so when I say that I believe we are ultimately responsible for our own happiness, I mean exactly that. I never blamed my H for not meeting my needs because I never felt he was responsible for that. Whatever he brought to my life was considered a blessing, not a right simply because we are married. So maybe it is true FOR YOU that you married your wife because of the things she did for you, but that is not true for me.<P>In fact, I feel that only when we honor ourselves, can we truly honor others. This does not mean indulge in every selfish desire that comes to mind. That is not honoring ourselves in a Godlike way. When we are good to ourselves and meet our own needs, we are happier and have much more to give to others. When we depend on others to do what we can do for ourselves, we are disappointed.<P>If your agreement is that you both will meet each other's needs, then no, that shouldn't change, but that was never my deal. I can't give him self esteem. I can do things that make him feel temporary pride, but those kinds of things are intrinsic.<P>Just Learning:<P>If you've read everything I've written, you would know that I am not holding any anger. <P>I am not blaming my H. It is a recongition of the state of things. When you are so embroiled in it, you can't see beyond your own hurt. I am at a place now where I can completely see his frailties and the path he is living now. His wounds are exposed to me because I know this man's heart. How I wish that he could see this and do something to fix it, but he won't. And that is sad.<P>If you've read what I've posted in other places, you would also know that I've acknowledged how I let him down. That is not an issue that is harped on because as each realization occurred, it was addressed. Problems are only problems when they are unsolved.<P>As for the question of what do they want, it was thrown out there for musing. Do I really think he wants a whore for a wife? Of course not. He wasn't looking for a wife. <P>Cuckold,<BR>I have left my H. So many of these replies are obviously from people who are responding simply to this and don't know my story. Otherwise you wouldn't be telling me to let go of the anger. <P>Sorry if my insistence seems intense. My in-laws were people who did not listen to me and picked selective topics to focus on that didn't address the entire issue, and this feels like de ja vu.<P>If it seems like I am harping on my virtue it is because I know my value. When someone is stepping on you and degrading your contribution, it's easy to overcompensate or risk losing your self esteem. <P>I have already addressed my healing and resolution of this issue in the Divorcing part of this forum. I am only still here because I thought it best to finish the threads I started and respond to those who have responded to me. I felt it was time to go because I don't need to give my energy to something that I feel is best left behind me, and that is made doubly obvious by the things that are written here today. I don't need to defend this or explain any more. I HAVE taken responsibility for the things I did to contribute to our break up. I have NOT taken responsbility for the things he's done and won't. I have already forgiven him and continue to love him despite the fact that we are not together; however, I recognize that this is not a healthy situation because he is not willing to face himself and change. I have explored all the possibilities of how to put things back together again in a way that can work for both of us. I have given it a very good try. I am walking away with a clear conscience and knowing that this baggage is not following me around. I had to do that for me. I hope you all can do the same. Good-bye

#382485 05/31/00 05:56 AM
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 16
L
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
L
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 16
It's a sad thing....<BR>all we want is to be with someone that can make us happy...and 'yes' and we make them happy it's certainly and giving of each other to each other.<BR>But yet, we hurt each other soooo much.<BR>I put a post up here yesterday but I must have done something wrong cause I don't see it anywhere, I'm completely new here.<BR>But I am married, will only be married a year in July...we lived together for 2 years before that. Without going into gruesome details :-) We haven't made love since our wedding day...that's just about 11 months ago. He has no interest...the rejections are just too much for me...I DO have an interest...lots of interest. He has even pushed me away when I've started some stuff on him. I don't even try I haven't approached him in months, it's just TOO hurtful. We have discussed it, not much though, it's like a taboo subject. And I don't want to harp on him all the time about it. But he says he just doesn't want to.<BR>What to do? <BR>I would love a male point of view on this one.<BR>We could discuss more at length. There are other issues. Physical attractiveness being one of them. I am slightly overweight, not hideous or anything, and I have been told i"m very pretty...all my life I've heard that.<BR>But I look no worse than when he met me...<BR>in fact I have worked hard, and am working hard at looking better physically...but it's a Catch-22. It's almost like I'm not good enough or worth the effort until I'm thin.<BR>All his previous girlfriends have been thin.<BR>I'm babbling now...so hopefully someone will answer this post.<BR>I need to talk to someone.<BR>Thanks!

#382486 05/31/00 11:40 PM
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 1,579
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 1,579
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by popeye:<BR>[BMy H has lived a pretty selfish life. Everything we've done has been in pursuit of his desires. The vacations we've taken are to places he wants to go. The ventures we've embarked on have been his calls. He had all that power and he never used it to create the dream marriage he wanted. I simply adored him. I would have gone to the edges of the earth for him had I only known he wanted me to. I see this over and over in so many of our posts. How do they miss this?<P>I think it's about the whole "how to be happy with what you have" concept. He was always looking over the fence to see what he was missing, so he could never enjoy what we had. That was nice when it was a motivating factor to help him achieve his dreams, but not nice when it lead him away from his marriage. The grass isn't always greener.[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Popeye, dear, I hope you haven't left. I'm very late on this thread as I've been away.<P>I must say you articulate so well what we too have lived through. My h too has been successful in his career largely because of that part of his personality that has him always looking out over the fence. But it too led him into affairs.<P>I too adored him and let him have what he wanted in everything. I now see it was not healthy for either of us. The concept of POJA has totally changed the dynamics of our relationship. We seek solutions and even vacations we can both be enthusiastic about.<P>And he has learned the hard way the grass is not greener with the OWs. At the same time we are now spending close to 15 hours having fun together. I wasn't making him feel loved and needed. I don't justify his actions, but as you said so well, it has helped tremendously in healing to realize the dynamics that left him vulnerable.<P>I was actually relieved in a way that both OWs were smart, educated, etc...that he didn't go for total dog food. You are right that they are immoral, but he picked two needy women. You were hard on Leilana, I finally came to grips with the OWs not being totally "evil". However, I could never befriend the OW as she did either.<P><P>------------------<BR>Cindy

Page 2 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Fordude 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Search
Who's Online Now
1 members (1 invisible), 131 guests, and 56 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
cbm800, Dodo M, Kingpin, MikaylaVaux, I.P.
71,728 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics133,546
Posts2,322,789
Members71,729
Most Online3,185
Jan 27th, 2020
Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
Copyright © 1995-2020, Marriage Builders®. All Rights Reserved.  |  Web Development by SunStar Media.
Site Navigation
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5