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Joined: Feb 2000
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Hey there.. my H called and told me that he was ready to tell me why the marriage wasn't working and counseling was futile but he wanted to do it in the presence of my counselor as he didn't want things to get out of hand. (We have now been separated for 3 months). He said he was 36 and had he had worked long and hard enough at this marriage.. that it was time that he was happy now (who cares about w of 12 years and 2 kids huh?). He said that he has lied to me most of our lives together (several affairs will do that to you) and that he hates himself for the lies... he blames it on bad chemistry between us (God forbid he accept any responsibility) but now that he is separate from me he is happy and he likes himself again (wow he likes himeself... why shouldn't he .. he is only abandoning me and committing adultery.. what is not to like!). He sai a lot more.. but it was painful. My counselor did a good job at trying to get him to realize that he was blaming me and not taling responsibility.. she also pointed out that since he was telling me lies for years that our marriage had no chance... how could I meet his emotional needs if he lied about them or withheld them from me! Anyway.. evan though I know he is recreating the past to justify his affair.. I am still hurting from the things he said. At one point I asked him if he understood the vows we had taken...only to hear him say that he didn't believe in the til death do us part. If I had known that I woudn't have married him.. I feel so betrayed.. not so much by the fact that he thinks he loves someone else.. but by the lies that he has told me over the years... I am mad at myself for not seeing that he is weak and liar...I have been with this guy since I was 18, so I have devoted my entire adult life to him and had 2 kids with him... now I am just to be discarded because he hasn't grown up...His whole family is disgusted with him... My therapist said she was getting mad just listening to him...she said she kept needling him hoping that I would see how self ish he is so that I could separate and let go in an easier manner. What I struggle with is that divorce is against my faith and beliefs and yet it can be essentially inflicted upon us against our will. Once the divorce goes through.. I am a divorced woman regardless of my outlook on life and marriage. I do not really want him to be a part of my life.. but than I look at our 2 children and I pause and wonder.. gee, if he wants to come back one day... maybe I need to let him.. for the kids sake. I know it is a moot point right now as he is in the throes of his love affair.. she is everything to him. I have to deal with him constantly because we have kids.. we have a pretty arrangement in place... he sees the kids 2 times every week for dinner, plus every other weekend... but he is not satisfied with that and he wants more time with the kids (overnight).. the kids are under 5 so I do not think it is appropriate for them to be away from me for too long of a stretch over nights.... (They cling and do not want to go with H and when they return they cling to me for hours...) we are seeing a child psychologist to see if we can amicably work things out.. who knows.. all I know is that the area of the children has always been my province and now he is evan trying to take that away from me...sometimes I feel like I am in an emotional war and that he has surronded me on all sides.. I do not know how to win the war or even the battle! I am struggling to maintain my dignity at all costs.. but it is hard sometimes.. I keep reminding myself that I at least have my pride and dignity and my morals straight and that I should pity him. But when he says stuff like he likes himself now... that just send me spiraling downwards into a pit of despair!!!

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hi nikki, just wanted you to know there are people thinking of you and sending prayers your way! <BR>There is not a lot you can do with him at this point...he needs to realize that you were not responsible for his unhappiness, nor is the OW responsible for happiness now! I have to agree with your counselor that the lies throughout the marriage are not encouraging (assuming affairs and lies for 12 yrs).<BR>Take good care of yourself and your kids in these confusing times. Take heart in your own growth!!! cl

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Nikki, my heart really goes out to you.<P>I have been away and I come back and see so many new "faces".<P>I read your reply about addiction turning to love and I must say I am very impressed with the wisdom you show and now I see you are about 10 years younger than I am, and I'm even more impressed.<P>I too have a 3 and 5 year old, it was mostly for them that I chose to work on this marriage. My h was involved in two affairs over 18 months. Before this, he had been faithful though we were both missing the mark in meeting each other's needs. I have seen the Harley principles work, but after all the plan Aing and Bing, it takes two to make a marriage.<P>Your h sounds VERY immature. Is he about the same age as you? Though it sounds very painful, it is a good step that he would finally sit down and tell you what he thought was wrong.<P>My h went through something like an MLC (mid-life crisis) though he is only 34. He was unhappy and grasping on all sides to solve it. Besides the affairs, he tried to move us to a beachfront condo, buy a BMW, relocate us to Spain...I can't remember all of it, but it's somewhere in the Read Only posts. (and for those who replied before that he needed God, he was the best Christian I knew). Now, he has done a complete 180, BUT I MADE ALL THE EFFORT FOR MONTHS.<P>So it can happen, but you can't change him. My h was a good, mostly mature guy to begin with. I don't know you or your h. It is so tough to face this with small kids. But if you think you could one day have a great relationship with him, hang in there. My h has also become a wonderful father in the last four months. I would not have believed he had it in him!!<P> <BR><P>------------------<BR>Cindy

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Nikki, are you there??<P>You haven't responded back, I hope you're ok.

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Hey there Schizzo: Yes I am here...I got into it with my H again last night and it is soo frustrating to try to talk to him. He comes acros as being so nice and reasonable one minute and I start to think... there he is, the person that I married... and than he says something that makes me realize it was a very fleeting glimpse. He just kept reiterating that has tried long and hard enough.. that he needs to move on and that he is sure this is the right thing to do. He was also now trying to tell me that there is no one specific person that he is seeing.. that he is just hanging out with friends alot.. yada yada yada.... He is sure that he doing the right thing because when he is away from me he doesn't feel compelled to lie to me and he feels good about his decision....Well that hurts to hear about how he just wants to move on, deal as minimally with me as possible on anything<P>You say that your H finally came around? When did you see that start to happen? What was going on with him? (I tried to find your thread - but I couldn't find it) How long have things been back together for you? My H is 36, the same age as I. I have felt like he has been in an early midlife crisis for the past few years. He denies it but He really wants all the things that others have.. sure it is nice to have certain things, but you make choices in life and sometimes you can't always get what you want when you want it.. you have to wait for it...What makes these guys go nuts like this.. go from marriage to.. I want out? He says we were coasting in our marriage for a while and that he was unhappy about the situation.. that it might get better for a while but it goes back all the time and he is tired of trying. I'll admit we were coasting.. that I was starting to feel disgruntled and that things had to change. But for me change means working on our marriage in a new way.. getting help with it... not running away from it... not assuming that if you stick around that things will be the same or get worse! What makes some people give up and others not? This is soo depressing! What makes me really sad is now our kids are going to grow up with the lesson learned that divorce is acceptable because, after all, Mom and Dad did it... and that is not a lesson I want them to learn at all!

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Nikki, I thought you were 30 (18+12). I'll be 39 and h will be 35 this year.<P>He vacillated for about a month. He wanted to import OW from Brazil, but he talked to our pastor who convinced him there was no future in the long run. Then he thought to just tell me all and move out, why should he work on the marriage. Also felt it was hopeless. I think reading SAA gave him hope that it could happen, the feelings of love could come back.<P>As to his realizing that happiness really was found in family life and the simple things, not sure if he could tell you himself how or when that clicked for him.<P>We have a 5 year old son and a daughter just turned 3. I think you too??<P>A lot of things popped out in conversation. I think he never believed the loving feelings could be sustained in marriage. His examples at home were awful. I believed it, but didn't know how to get there until I really grasped Harley's stuff.<P>Basically he and I were really willing to give it a try for the sake of our years together (9) and our kids. It has really worked!!<P>------------------<BR>Cindy

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Nikki, I read your letter and I feel your pain/ and doubts. <BR>If you look at my post you will see that I have been where you are at. <BR>What worked for me( at my own pace) was putting my faith in God and going on with my life. My H was and I still believe in a MLC but finally after almost 2 years he's beginning to see that it really is all about HIM and not US. He has had a taste of the single life/ life with OW/ paying child support and alimony/ not seeing our son or grandson/ and having our daughter (25) cut HIM out of her life completely. It has taken all of this to finally make him CHOOSE to come home and make this marriage work.<BR>He also rewrote the last 27 years of our married life. Now he is finally remembering how good it was and wants to TRY to REGAIN what he's lost. <BR>I don't know if he can do that because we have moved on/ all of us. We are fine emotionally and financially. My son and I talked it over ( he is 12) and decided to give my H one more chance, since he has quit his job out of state and is coming home. This after being seperated for 7 months.<BR>His words to me/no one has ever loved me as much as you and I was so stupid not to see that. You've stuck with me thru good times and bad. <BR>So today I sit here, waiting for his return.<BR>Very scary, because like I've said I've moved on with my life/ but there is still a part missing...HIM. So I will give him a try, now that he wants to try. Before he didn't...<BR>So you make the choice for YOURSELF...That way 5 years down the road you can say I gave it my all, instead of I should have done more.<BR>I don't have all the answers and so I just ask God to help in my thoughts words and actions. God, not my H has given me the strength to carry on, he can for you too.<BR>Write me if you get down and want to chat.<BR>Or ask others here. They will help, get all the information you can, it helps with the choices you make.You can look at both sides with and without him. <BR>This site has also been a sorce of strength, for me and I know it will be for you too.<BR>Your friend<BR>Tyra

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Thanks Tyra and Cindy...I hope that everything does work out for you both. My H and I separated once before after the birth of our first child.. we were separated for 6 months and hee then wanted to reconcile... It was very hard and scary.. but we did it and I would say we were very happy for a while. After the birth of our 2nd child things began to slip.. he went back into his old pattern of not telling me things and he apparently had not totally let go of his OW....So, if there is one peice of advice I would give you both.. it is go back with open eyes.. realize that they can not completely change.. that the problems that were there before they left in terms of communication patterns will still be there.. so, try joint marital counseling...maybe build in a system whereby monthly you check in with each other. I thought I had built one in to our relationship because we had promised each other that if we ( I was thinking mostly him) ever felt like we were tempted by others or feeling hopeless about our relationship that we tell the other and get our butts to counseling fast to work on things.. that we promised to always work on things and not get to the give up stage. He, of course, broke that promise to me... which is why we are here now... but just because of his/our failure I have to tell you that I still think it is possible to put things back together after a separation/affair...but it is hard work. I had truley forgiven my H for all the pain that I had suffered.. I had reached a point of building back trust... so I know that it can be done, it is hard work though! So good luck to you both.. I am saying a prayer for you now.... I think I am resigned to the fact that my H does not really appreciate the goodness of our relationship or realize that he has internal issues that he has to resolve before he can be happy with anyone. I fear that he will have destroyed all tender feelings that I have for him not to mention all of our joint assets.. before waking up from this self imposed nightmare. I feel healthier and better when I am not around him because he really has a way of dragging me down with him.. and I don't like how he what he says makes me feel...so I am trying very hard to move on with my life and to make sure that our children have a safe and loving home.. the rest is up to fate!

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Nikki, I remember now, I had read on another thread that you have been through this before. I would not go through this again and have told him so (though I said before I would not forgive the first time).<P>I believe he has changed, but my eyes are wide open. Our communication has completely changed. Will he slip back? Don't know.<P>The biggest thing for me is that we are not going back to the marriage we had. We have really internalized Harley's principles and see them working.<P>We started getting distant when my son was born. Although I previously had a career, I stay home and we were going different ways; me with the kids, him travelling all over with his job.<P>We are still looking for a middle ground. I bring these up because I think they are issues in couples with small kids. Whoever I was with, I would need to balance my life so he doesn't get squeezed out again.<P>Take care of YOURSELF. You cannot make decisions for him. I think it is good you are moving on, and give some kisses and hugs to the sweet kids.<P>BTW, did you read the post, I want children? <P>

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Nikki my eyes are wide opened! We never had a problem , until we stopped talking to me and started talking to ow/e-mail affair turned PA. Anyway there is no way I will let him NOT talk to me again. Even if what he has to say may hurt. <BR>So I am preparing myself for his return, but will wait until I hear/and see if his actions and words co-inside. That will be the beginning of rebuilding trust for me.<BR>As for another affair. If that does happen, then like I've said before I will have EARNED my way out of this marriage and it will be time to move on, and let him just find someone else to meets his needs, as I will also.( Of course not for a very very very long time)<BR>I know already he is being inconsiderate. He hasn't call just to tell me where he's at and to make sure he's ok. To me that is being disrespectful. So my suspisions are running wild again!! Like I've said until I see some changes in him, my guard will be UP!<BR>Tyra

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Tyra, take deep breaths and try to relax.<P>Even if he is totally sincere, new habits are difficult to form. When h was finally ready to work on us, I still had to gently prompt him for what I needed every step of the way. He is only starting to do some things (like calling me to update me) on his own. Like teaching the kids, repetition...<P>If I want a hug or even him to remember my b'day, I remind him, make it difficult for him to fail/ easy to succeed.<P>Relax and I hope things go well.

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Schizzo<BR>Thanks for your input. I have calmed down.<BR>I just am not comfortable with him just popping in. He left suddenly, and returned once suddenly, and then left again, and now coming back. I like to be prepared and not taken by surprise. I guess I'm judging on past experiences when he was overseas and coming home to visit, he would call at each major layover to say I'm almost home. <BR>I guess I was expecting the same type of consideration. I know it will be more like...<BR>a phone call when HE is ready to talk.<BR>I've been keeping busy and going on with my normal routine, but am getting very nervous.<BR>time for more Meds. My emotions are all over the place and I think that is normal. Right?<BR>Hopefully I can get guidence in the recovery section soon...If I ever get there.....<BR>Ok here goes another deep breath.....<BR>I think I'm going to go vacume, anything to keep me busy.... [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<BR>Tyra


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