Just wanted to share a thought or two that was birthed in the pains of withdrawl this past week.<P>I have always been amazed over how "easy" it was for me to end up in this place.A place where I could fall in love with another woman who is married, as I am also. Honestly, I still can't believe it. And it is nowhere near as easy to "get out" of this place either.<BR>I thought of how an arrow is designed to easily penetrate the body of it's victim, be it animal or human. But the design of this arrowhead is such that you cannot easily pull it out without doing much damage while inflicting horrible pain.<P>And thus, we see how the "enemy of our souls" lured us into a place where he could shoot his "flaming arrows". So easily they penatrate our heart and souls if we are not on guard. Then when you think that all you have to do is "pull it out" and be done with it, ah, what a rude awakening that awaits you. There is much torment, pain, and bleeding, along with a tearing of heart and soul. It would seem to me at this point that trying to remove this "arrow" from my heart will only expidite my death. I need the skillful hands of a surgeon. God...where might I find you in this hour of pain.<P>And that leads me to my next thought. I can see where an "absense of God" created a powerful void or vacum in my heart. And it is just a matter of time, before that hole demands to be filled. I am convinced it is a void that ONLY God himself can fill. But if we are not careful, other things/people will enter our path and be 'sucked' into this horrific vacum that will not let go of it's grip.<P>Tragically, we often times assume that God is "always" there. <BR>But his plan was not for Him to "follow us", but for us to "follow Him".<P>There is a story recorded in Luke's gospel where Jesus was taken to Jerusalem for the Passover when he was only 12. On the return trip home, his parents, caught up in the fanfare of traveling and visiting with others, made a scary assumption that "Jesus was there with them." They went a whole day's journey before their frightening discovery.<P>Now if the very birth mother of Christ could be negligent enough to "leave Jesus behind", who are we to think we can't do the same. <P>My prayer these days is that I might make a similar trip back to the temple as Mary did, and find my saviour and take him back home with me. For I know that He, and He alone, is the only one capable of filling this void.<P>(shall I pass the offering plate now?)<BR>:-)<P><p>[This message has been edited by NoMas (edited June 06, 2000).]

Hi No Mas,<BR> You have truly learned many good things as a result of your trials. You have true insight into where a lack of spirituality can take a human being.It is our nature to seek things of this world,it is a conscious effort to seek things eternal(shucks,no immediate gratification )<P>There is much hope for you and your wife,No Mas.Your EA is,in nature and form,almost identical to my H's,except OW is a single mom in our case.Finding the Lord again,has helped by H to be the man he is today.You are not alone in your struggles.It is wonderful to see my H truly WANT me and his family.The Lord can do that for you too. It sounds as if you already know this is the way to making you and your marriage whole again.Marriage was meant to be a three strand cord....one not easily broken.When you invite God into your marriage you get a three strand cord and add a huge dimension of strength in times of weakness.Hang in there, No Mas.It will get better.Two books that have strengthened by H in this are "When Good Men are Tempted" don't know the author off hand and "Tender Warrior...God's intention for a Man" by Stu Weber.<P>You can do this,with His help, and He's screaming at you to let Him! Athough,I can only recall one reference in the Word made to God as a surgeon,there are many references to Him as the Potter. He is our Master Potter. We sometimes harden our hearts to his ways and become "hard" ourselves.We risk shattering our lives into many pieces when we turn away from Him.He is always waiting to soften us when we fail so miserably.We simply have to bring Him the pieces of our mess.A couple's ministry called Potter's Field Ministry helped my H and I immensely. Check them out at pottersfield.org Praying for you and your wife!<p>[This message has been edited by mthrrhbard (edited June 06, 2000).]

NoMas,<P>I think you are getting to a good place, a place of continual releasing. You have been in quite a struggle, a striving with God (as I have been also), but I do not judge that striving. It has been between you and God. On these boards you have been very honest and transparent about your "tug of war" with God, for which you have sometimes received some pretty tough lashings from bystanders. <P>I have always thought that my greatest sin in my wrong relationship has been to go somewhere else besides God to have my needs met. And I don't mean to minimize the other sins, such as breaking a vow, being deceitful and hurting others. The Harley principles are helpful and explain how our feelings are affected towards others, but the truth is we will all disappoint each other at times (or maybe not even ever be able to fulfill a need of our spouse as fully as they would like it). Only God can fill us completely and perfectly. My sin has been to believe and try to get my needs filled in my own way, rather than go to the only ONE who can and does truly meet ALL my needs. And to accept His provision for what I need.<P>I am rejoicing with you as you desire to make your journey back to the temple to find your Saviour. You know He has been waiting for your return all along. And He is waiting to give you what you truly need.<P>Elisabeth Elliot once said, "God gives us what we have really been asking for all along". We think we know what that is, but He knows what we are really asking for and need.

My, NoMas, that is quite an analogy! I can understand it, though. You are reaching deep within your soul, soul searching, I guess you'd call it! Let God lead you, you can make it. And I know it's painful! How are you doing right now? The same or worse or better? I really like to read your posts, because it quite often gives me new understanding of so many things! Hang in there!<BR><p>[This message has been edited by momma (edited June 06, 2000).]

NoMas: Funny you should bring God up because this past weekend I was doing very poorly mentally. I have had suicidal thoughts in my head again and I fought very hard to keep them at bay. I spoke to God as I busily worked in my yard trying to wear myself down. I told him that I was not going to ask for his help or pray for him to get me out of this mode, but that I was using the tools that he gave me to fight for my life. In my mind and my mind only, I believe that God has helped me many times when I fell and during that time he or she has given me the tools and skill to help myself next time. If a child(me) continues to fall due to my own lack of understanding or the wrong shoes, then I need to either change shoes or go back and re-read the story. There are times when we continue to make the same mistakes. I know I am one. At some point in time, we do get the message even if it's at death. We have called on our parents many times to help us when we are in trouble. However, if we continue, then as in my case, my grandparents told me: "We taught you all that we can teach you to survive. We will always be here for you, but it's time that you learn to take care of yourself." I apply that same method in my current life. I know God is here for me to talk to, to ask for advice, to give me a helping hand if I just can't handle it, but other than that, I have to help myself or I will never learn.<BR> I don't know if you read a post that I wrote several months ago about a vision I had. I felt God with me during one of my major lows. In what I thought was a dream, I felt this overwhelming and powerful love engulf me to the point where I did not want to leave. Similar to the "white light" theory. It was at that time that the education of fullfillment was given. Now laugh if you like, I am ok with it. But I use that education or tool to help me survive the deepest of my pains otherwise I would have already pulled the trigger. God has given me another tool/skill of survival. It's the people on this forum.<P>I still have my bad days. I still think of OM and yes there are days when I wish he were here to hold me and give me words of comfort. He was and still is my good friend and I miss him very much as I am sure you understand. However, he is someone else's husband. I am someone else's wife. <BR>I know God as a parent is watching over me and knowing that during my bad falls or days, though I may be crying,hurting or angry that I will get up, dust myself off and start life again.<P>You my friend, will need to make some decisions. How much longer do you want to hurt? How much longer do you want your spouse or OW to hurt? The arrow is a bear to pull out, but once out, then the healing process begins. As I tell you this so am I listening because I do know how you feel.<P>Please talk to me anytime. Much luck and many prayers to you

Wow NoMas....that was profound what you wrote. And expresses my sentiment as well. I am copying that to read when I feel weak. <BR>My prayers go out to you in this painful struggle....<P>

About to embark on very dangerous territory here. I will admit immediately that I am not as studied in the bible as I should be, but I wanted to offer up another interpretation of the story that you recounted.<P>Could it be possible that God lead Mary and Joseph to overlook their son because he needed his son to experience and do what he needed to do in (was it Jeuruselum? boy commenting on something I'm not even sure of the town. ) I don't know that God leaves us. I have been ruminating about the possibility that hardship befalls our lives partly due to our choices, and partly because there is a lesson to be learned in the hardship. God doesn't come rescue us from our pain because he knows we can bear it, and we will be stronger and wiser people for it. <P>I remember my third grade catechism teacher explaining to me the concept of the cross that Jesus bore. We had taken it on faith that it was a detail of easter, but didn't really understand the significance of it in the story. To explain it she retold the story of her sons illness and his subsequent death. It was quite eloquent, and even as a third grader it affected me. At that moment in time she thought that God had abandoned her. While she was at what she described as her peak of misery she began to do some weeding in her garden. As she was digging in the dirt she unearthed a small cross that had been misplaced there years before. In one instant she knew that she wasn't alone, and she knew she had the strength to persevere. There was God sending her a message...She had been given a cross to bear, and the size of it when compared to the one that Christ had borne was much smaller. She could make it.<P>The christmas before I found out about my husbands affair he gave me a cross as a necklace. It is one of my most treasured gifts. All the while I agonized about my marriage I clutched it. It was where I was reminded of my strength. God had not abandoned me. He chose to teach me about relationships by opening the doors. (This site, books that were recommended to me, the bible itself.) It was my decision to walk through them, but he knew I would never learn what I needed to know if he just wiped away the pain and made it all better.

Beth,<P>I agree with what you are saying. I know that I don't really have a full understanding of things until I've seen them with my own eyes or experienced it first-hand. I remember when my son was born. The childbirth classes spoke of staying at home if you were comfortable with the pain. That it wasn't necessary to call the doctor, even if the contractions were 5-10 minutes apart for hours, if you were comfortable with the pain. I simply could not grasp the concept of 'comfortable with pain'. How can anyone be comfortable with pain? I ended up calling the doctor and going to the hospital long before I was ready only to be sent home twice because I simply did not understand that concept. Finally when it WAS time, I understood by contrast what it meant to be comfortable with the pain.<P>Similarly I could not grasp the concept of what it would be liek to raise a child until I did it. I couldn't understand (and I'm afraid I still don't) what a marriage relationsip really is until I had been in one. I didn't know how someone could have an affair (emotional or physical) until it happened to me. All of these experiences I have learned and am still learning from. They are life's lessons. It's why we are here. To learn life's lessons. If God were to pluck us out of difficult situations we would never learn. We have been given free will and we must learn from our decisions and experiences. <P>But this doesn't mean that he is not with us. He is there, watching, comforting us when we need it. Like a parent teaching a child to ride a bike. the parent will let go of the bike so that the chhild can learn to ride it on his own. But the parent has not abandoned the child. The parent is right there ready to grab hold of the bike if need be. <P>For some of us (like me ) it just takes a whole lot longer to learn life's lessons. And I know I have many left to learn.<p>[This message has been edited by TruthSeeker (edited June 07, 2000).]

Talk about learning lessons...did you see this on the 'quote thread'?<P>Experience is a tough teacher, it gives the test first and then the lesson.<BR>~unknown<P>It was worth repeating.

Sigh... And yet you do it once again, NoMas... You've gone and made me (and everyone actually) think again... <P>Your awesome ability to open both the betrayer and betrayed's minds, guides us all towards a better understanding of what is happening inside ourselves... <BR>