[QUOTE]Originally posted by Hurting Badly:<BR><B>OK, so what about it? Any experiences with Retrouvaille that you care to relay to me?</B><P>Never heard of them. But I am thrilled your W broached the subject! That is great, Leon! Huge development! <high five><P>She probably said it in a feisty tone because she was scared of/expecting rejection. The guilt talking. I would jump all over that olive branch, brudda. <P><B>I set up a session with Steve for Friday!!!!!!!!!!!! I told them to charge it to your account, if that's OK?? </B><P>Hey, if I won the lottery, I'd fund a phone counseling charity for this board.<P>No joke.<P><BR>

Leon,<P>I have no experience with retroville (sp), but people who have posted here, have felt it to be very good. I would think it might help especially after two months. It should give all this time to settle out a bit.<P>Did you say yes to her? Or did you just let it slide for awhile? My guess is that each day and during the day the feelings are going to change. In my terms the data is going to have a hugh scatter to it, but I think the idea is to look at the trend of the data on a weekly basis. You know what I am talking about.<P>This is all so new that I am sure your W has no idea what to do with it. Has she mentioned at all what her plans are? Is OM in or out for awhile? Is she going to give the marriage a chance?<P>Hopefully, as you two talk and she finishes testing you, you will learn the answers to these questions if you don't know the answer already.<P>How is she acting in general? Down, kind of the same, or just focussed?<P>Keep us posted and <P>God Bless You and Your Family,<P>JL

Here's the scoop on Retrouvaille: <A HREF="http://www.retrouvaille.org/" TARGET=_blank>http://www.retrouvaille.org/</A> <P>It's hyped a lot on the Divorce Busting forum, so I figure it may have some merit. I did agree to going to this retreat (shoot, I was the one that suggested it originally!), but I also understand that she can change her mind 100 times between now and then. But so what?<P>JL, I understand your point about riding out the oscillations and looking for the trend. What I've seen in the last couple of days is that she is quieter, more subdued (depressed), and more tired. Probably all normal, given how I popped her bubble just two days ago. I'm just trying my best to make sure I catch her when she comes crashing down from her recent cloud. It's kind of hard, there's a lot of cross wind, and I keep running left to right trying to make sure she lands in my arms and not on the rocks .<P>As far as what she and the OM decided, I'm not sure now is the right time to ask. She knows I'm dying to know, so I'm sure she'll tell me when (and if) she is comfortable. I suspect they broke it off (at least on a trial basis). Perhaps the "amazing" OM got cold feet when he realized what he may stand to lose, and that his 'lil wifey might kick him out of the house if she is not as understanding as I have been . Who knows? All I know is my W ain't sleeping with the pager anymore, so if nothing else, their encounters will be more discreet, and won't keep jabbing me in the heart every time I hear of a "late meeting" or late night "sweetie" talk. That's a big improvement for my sanity.<P>BTW, I developed a new analogy that I want to try out on you and see if you think it's patentable. I figure that after the affair is brought out into the open, any future contacts between them will lose the mystique and the magic that was originally there. Given that they now know that I know about their encounters, any future contact will feel like I am either there in the room with them, or at least right outside the door. I don't know about you, but I think it would be pretty hard to get it on with someone if you knew their spouse was either watching or at least listening in, wouldn't it? (Exhibitionists etc excluded, obviously). That's why I think uncovered affairs tend to die off. What do you guys think of this analogy?<P>Any more Retrouvaille feedback? Any chance it can somehow backfire, rather than just not help?<P>Leon<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Hurting Badly (edited August 30, 2000).]

Leon,<P>I am NOT the person to be giving you advice, just wanted to let you know I've been reading and thinking about you.<P>Learned a lot from your posts and replies. You're hearing from the best. I can see that you have surges of energy it seems. Just get ready for it to drain. Your running on stress and adrenaline right now. Be ready when you hit the bottom. Take vitamins!! Drink juices! (I mean it, it can really physically affect you and really sneak up before you realize what's happening.)<P>Everyone's told you get ready for ups and downs. You asked someone here when will it get better? Well.... <P>For me it got better about a month after he was out of the house. I wasn't happy, of course, but leveling out in my roller coaster. The thing is, Leon - these monotonous days run into each other and it feels like the same routine over and over and I'm treading water and not going anywhere. That's the hardest part for me. I thrive on stress and adrenaline. I can take that. I can't take waiting, waiting, not knowing, waiting and waiting.....<P>But as JL tells me weekly: Patience and Time. <P>I didn't mean this post to depress you. I just wanted you to know that the extremes lessen relatively quicly. Sometimes it's harder to hang on level ground, though.<P>I'm so impressed with your fortitude. I'm glad you and I found this site before we found out about the A's. It definitely has given both of us a competitive edge if you will. We have the tools, we have the support, we have the drive, and we have the strength to do this - and do it right.<P>Hang on Leon! We're essentially all in this together.<P>(((((((((((((((((((Great Big Hug)))))))))))))<P>Cali

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Hurting Badly:<BR><B>I don't know about you, but I think it would be pretty hard to get it on with someone if you knew their spouse was either watching or at least listening in, wouldn't it?</B><P>Ummmm....okay, this part shouldn't be getting me hot, right? <P>Naw, just breaking the tension.<P>I'm not sure where the Harley afdvice should go on the Retro whatever.<P><edited due to recent developments <P>I know, don't say it, but my worser self would be TEMPTED. <BR><p>[This message has been edited by Mike C2 (edited August 31, 2000).]

OK, guys, update time. By now you may know that my W is actually posting on the EN forum (stop by for a visit, please). How's that for developments??!!<P>What led to this was that we had another nice long conversation last night. Some things I learned from it (in random order): She and OM have broken things off cold turkey (no more lunches/dinners alone, etc. Apparently his W would make sure he never saw the kids again, if she found out - there's a lady with principles!); W wants us to be best friends for the rest of our lives, no matter what happens (sounds like a good starting point for recovery); W still has no romantic feelings for me (yeah, well, to know me is not necessarily to love me, I guess); W doesn't want to live in a love-less marriage; W really wants to see if she can make the marriage work (this is where you guys, plus Harley counseling, can really help!). SHe then decided to try out the forums, to see how others in similar situations have dealt with things!<P>I think the real challenge (one I'll pose to Steve tomorrow) is that she is convinced that she understands her emotions and feelings and that she is in control of her emotions. Therefore, I think she is rationalizing that even though she had an affair, and is only two days into the post D-day withrawal, she can still have a clear mind about her feelings (or lack thereof) for me. I can't buy that kind of reasoning. I'm sure two days after a hot affair ends, her mind is all over the place. BUt I also know it's not my job to educate her or try to convince her about this.<P>I hope she will become more involved in this forum, and will learn from this experience. If you guys can help her like you've helped me, I'd greatly appreciate it (that's an understatement!).<P>And Mike, I haven't seen you respond to her yet. I can't wait for your "insight" .<P>JL, if you could post to her too, I know she'll appreciate your thoughts!<P>Leon<p>[This message has been edited by Hurting Badly (edited August 31, 2000).]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Hurting Badly:<BR><B>And Mike, I haven't seen you respond to her yet. I can't wait for your "insight" .</B><P>Yeah, I spit my coffe all over the monitor, then I ran and hid under the couch, peeking out until it was safe.<P>Then I posted, but it wss probably inarticualte blather.<P>My advice to you, Sparky, is to give her your Harley appointment tomorrow.<P><B>I think the real challenge (one I'll pose to Steve tomorrow) is that she is convinced that she understands her emotions and feelings and that she is in control of her emotions.</B><P>Well...a woman's heart is like.....uh....a one stall bathroom. She might think she can fit more than one person in there, but only one is getting anything done.

Hi, all,<P>VERY late to this thread, and Leon, I know you don't know me from a hill of beans. Lori mentioned me about 3 pgs ago - Ol'-Timer Suse, Esq., Former Betrayer Extraordinaire. Been there, done that, bought the t-shirt, wore the t-shirt until it was in shreds, bought *another* t-shirt because I wasn't done yet....<P>Just my .02 - you've gotten wonderful advice so far Leon (and I agree you've been handling it very well). In particular, Lori has done a FABULOUS job with her own situation - listen to her well! And JL has a knack for looking at any situation from various angles and coming up with dead-on analyses (& Mike - must've missed you being over on Just Found Out - I usually find the funny people, and you are a hoot!! Keep adding levity!).<P>I'd like to throw in some food for thought: we all know people get into affairs because they are feeling emotionally estranged from their spouses: unheard, not 'understood', not able to 'be themselves'. And probably not having any fun together any more either. And of course the Magic OP satisfies all these needs to perfection.<P>(BTW, Lori's bet that your W was not looking for an affair & totally shocked to find herself in one rings *very* true...Lori, you sure won't get blasted by me!... there are really 3 'victims' of an affair: the betrayed, the betrayer <ducking incoming flames now>, and the marriage. The betrayer is left with a *heap* o' sh*t to deal with, once the fog starts lifting...)<P>So Leon, the best advice I can add to what you've already gotten is to offer your W exactly what is the biggest draw for her in her affair: *hear* her...*understand* her...*value* her... be a *friend* to her. It ain't about sex - it's about emotional intimacy. As I said on another thread, we've all heard the expression "an inch deep and a mile wide" - well, an affair is an inch wide and a mile deep. YOU hold all the rest of the 'width' (your history, your kids, your *stuff*, your social life & families..). This is a strong suit. OM can never have these things. Let your W know the 'mile deep' can be re-established in your marriage, and the affair *cannot* compete. <P>Do this by simply showing her: By listening to her. By caring how she feels. By giving her a safe refuge (she needs this desperately now - I can tell by how you describe her "looking like sh*t"! I remember feeling AWFUL and EXHAUSTED and just soooooooo tired... ). So rub her feet. Bring her a cup of tea. Rent a funny movie so you can laugh together. You get my drift? She needs to feel *safe* right now. She needs comfort.<P>My H never found out about my affair (tho his antennae were vibrating, he told me later). I think I wish he had... my A continued on & off for a loooooong time - every time I felt low (or OM did) it would resume. I wish I'd had my H's help and love and support during this time. I think it would have saved literally years of agony.<P>Anyway - I'll look in on your W's post (username?). I'll help if I can - I really have been there! - but I will say she doesn't sound "too far gone". I also think her OM is probably running for the hills in a state of panic right now! <P>Good luck, Leon! <P>------------------<BR>~suse~<BR>Rome wasn't built in a day.<BR>

Hi suse!<P>I appreciate your inputs and thoughts. A lot of (positive) stuff transpired in the last 24 hours. One of them that my W is now posting on the EN forum! I would love for you to come by and give her some of your thoughts! <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum8/HTML/001692.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum8/HTML/001692.html</A> <P>Thanks in advance!<P>Leon<p>[This message has been edited by Hurting Badly (edited August 31, 2000).]

read it! Real firestorm of responses over there! <P>Hang in there, Leon - suse

Hi Leon. Hi everybody.<P>Can you beleive it? I finally registered on this BB. I'm a junior member here but God knows that my situation is not recent (Leon you know my story from the Divorce Busting BB - different username). <P>I finally read ALL of your thread. I was so happy for you to read that your wife wants to go to Retrouvaille. This is Great!!<P>I can't see how this could hurt your relationship. I'll be in a better position to give you my opinion on Monday.<P>Are you a mathematician? You seem to use metaphores relating to maths (e.g. the integral one). <P>Now that the A is in the open, is she spending more time w/ your kids? Is she shoing any signs of guilt in that regard? How are the kids doing? Do they know anything? I know they're very young (3 and 5 correct?). Do they ask questions? My D's do not seem to know of anything. I'm glad that's the case.<P>I have not read your wife's thread but will go there soon. Don't know if I'll be able or in a position to offer any advice. How do you feel about her posting on the same BB? Aren't you afraid she is going to search for your threads and read them. From experience, there are things we say on a BB that we would not want our spouse to read. I've been there. Hence my reluctance to post how I feel.<P>You hang in there. I also think there is a lot of positive for your two (or you four I should say, let's not forget our little ones).<BR>Manon