Yesterday my H told me he needed to bring the kids home 2 hours early. Luckily for him, I was home, since he didn't tell me till late morning. As usual, he brought them home and took one of them out to dinner. They were gone quite a long time, which kind of surprised me since I figured he would be in a hurry. Turned out they stopped at the toy store since they had time because he had brought them home early. My son said later that his father had told them that they had to come home early, since the OW had to take her youngest somewhere yesterday afternoon. I don't get it - my H and my kids are not allowed to stay at her house when she is gone, even though he lives there? Or did she insist that he bring them home early, to somehow make up for the fact that I was late last time, since I had to take our daughter back to college?

Who knows? Could be any one of a million reasons why...<P>When your kids come back from a visitation, do you ask them for all details about what was said & done by OW and H? Or do your kids freely volunteer this information?<P>Second - what have you done to make your home and yourself the "better place to be"? You want your H back, so what are you doing to lure him back home where he belongs?

KarmaGrrl,<BR>My kids, especially my son, volunteer more information than I could possibly want.<P>I am not sure how your second question relates to the post, but there is no way Plan A can possibly compete with his guilt. I have been nothing but nice to him. As many people have pointed out, it is not possible to make "deposits" to a "love bank" when the spouse is in the middle of an affair. You can not "lure" a spouse back when they are in the middle of an affair. Betrayers on this board have said over and over again that there was nothing that their spouse could have done while they were in the affair to make them stop. <p>[This message has been edited by Nellie1 (edited December 13, 1999).]

Big pat on your back for "being nothing but nice to him." YAY! That's a love deposit, isn't it? <P>Of all people, know your H the best - his likes and dislikes - what it was that intrigued him about you in the first place - what it was that kept him happily married to you for 20+ years - where his joy lies - yadda yadda. So, that being your "ammo" I'm suggesting that you use it to your best advantage. <P>If you suspect there's trouble in paradise (between H & OW) then use that to your advantage. <P>If he's kicked out of the house when OW isn't home - then use it. Give him a warm sunny place to be while he's locked out. He doesn't like cities - so maybe an opportunity to come to the farm and do farm stuff would remind him what it is that he loves about being on a farm. <P>If he loves a special holiday cookie recipe of yours - send some with the kids the next time they go to visit him. Let him munch a cookie of yours and remember all the good times that you shared. <P>These are just examples of little things you can do - you are the expert here - you know his sentimental buttons, not me. <P>Get the idea? In other words - be a predatory female like an OW. <P>So what if the others said there's nothing you can do to "lure him back" while they're hung up in an affair? I don't believe it - every minute of every day he's got to be making comparisons between you and OW. It's only human nature. Sure, the affair has to run it's course and end and all that - but in the meantime perhaps it wouldn't hurt to be reminding him of what it is he loves about you, your kids, the farm, and being a dad again. <P>There are things that you can do to draw him back home - face it, it's a competition here between you and OW. You have much more history to draw upon - get him to remember what it is that he loves about you - remind him of the good times - suggest that more good times are to be had once he comes back home. <P>Just trying to help,<BR>~KarmaGrrl<BR>

Hi Nellie1:<P>A comment you said on your post really hit home with me. Something like "you can't lure back a spouse who's in the midst of an affair..."<P>Well, as I have found out, you definately can't "lure" any man back who's in the middle of their affair, and in my case, much less when they are "genuinely in love" with the OW. (as with my H and Mia)<P>What I've learned since my H and I made the decision to divorce is that I can survive without him. I'm not as miserable as I used to be. And that's a good thing.

KarmaGrrl,<BR>Unfortunately, I suspect that anything she gets wind of gets nixed. For instance, last summer he when he was still visiting the kids here a couple of evenings a week, he asked if I could start dinner when he was going to be late due to pick up our daughter. I started making dinner and having it ready - used to be he would have appreciated having dinner on the table. Then one weekend he came to see the kids in a pretty good mood - I suggested that I come back early to take them swimming in our pool since he didn't have a suit, and making them burgers since he promised to show me how to start the grill. He said he didn't have a problem with that - a few hours later when I came home he was on the phone with the OW and he when he hung up he was irritable and acted like a different person. Two days later I got an email that said he wouldn't eat dinner here anymore, that it was inappropriate.<P>I suspect the OW has extracted a promise from him that he will spend the absolute minimum time interacting with me. If the relationship with her follows the pattern ours did, initially he will go along with whatever he thinks she wants; then he later he will go along with it but act resentful; then later he will just do whatever he wants to regardless of how she feels about it - but that could take years.<BR>

Tired Lady,<BR>I am glad you are less miserable.

Harley and many others write that you cannot compete with an inlove affair. It's pure fantasy and all our warts are known. We also know all our spouses warts and they know we know.<P>The thing is, you never know when the inlove affair crosses over the line, when the spouse starts to question things and isn't any longer obsessed. Since no one announces these things to us betrayed, we have no way of knowing when our behavior actually might start to make a difference. But at some point, I think it does. Nellie, you might want to think about this now - it does seem that the grass may be starting to brown a bit.<P>Still, how many of us can Plan A our spouses with an active effort to meet their needs while they continue an affair and are angry at us? It is very feasible to stop lovebusting forever and I know I've done that. But gifts, dinners, cards, love letters, compliments, perpetual concessions and unasked for and unappreciated forgiveness to someone that has no remorse? We can do it for a while, but a year or longer in the face of constant rejection? I think not. Sometimes, the best approach is to remove one's butt from the frying pan for a while to give the burns a chance to heal before proceeding. So Nellie, how's the healing coming?

Distressed,<BR>Maybe he is still completely obsessed and anything I see to the contrary is just wishful thinking - I don't know. <P>It seems the more I do, the angrier he gets. I guess I will take the little kids to buy Christmas gifts from them, since they can't drive. When the kids gave him his birthday presents, he opened them at dinner at a fast food restaurant rather than open them in front of me. <P>I don't know if this is some giant unpassable test, the kind where every time you do the impossible you are told you have to do something even more impossible, or if his cruelty just reflects an overwhelming hatred for me. <P>No, I doubt if I will ever heal. I envy those people who live in states where they are allowed to move away from the betrayer.

Nellie,<BR>You could do anything and there would still be no sane (or honest answers) to what your h does in terms of ANYTHING. Everything contradicts everything else in terms of arrangements, behaviour etc. except the consistency of his treatment towards you. If you make love deposits, he will resent you for this (and feel awfully guilty I would hope) and if you do not, he will resent you for not "being nice". You cannot do anything right in his eyes at this point. IMO you should do what makes you feel the best in terms of this whole mess. I often wish i could use the advice i give as it is so hard to do the best for me.....in a mid life crisis the spouse is the only one left holding it all together for the children,parentally, emotionally and financially. You have 6 wonderful children who I am sure have their own emotional angst in dealing with this no matter what they say......and I "only" have 4 who are quite dysfunctional at times. 4 teenagers and a husband going through mlc does in reality not leave a lot of time for "fun', but Nellie, our time too will come, so do not reason why.<BR>Nellie, my heart and prayers go to you to find some sort of peace of mind and solace. There is no answer, it just is and this is what we have to deal and heal with. Stop looking to ow to find reasons for H dropping kids off early etc. this is his choice, just as it was his choice to have the affair. You have choices too, even if they are far from ideal and certainly not pleasant in any way. No choice leaves one in a vacuum which I found very unhealthy.<BR>Nellie, please take care of yourself.<BR>

willbok,<BR>You are right that I can not do anything right in his eyes. <P>He own actions seem to belie themselves so often - I am absolutely certain he misses the children quite a lot. When he said something about making them a second Thanksgiving dinner, he looked so terribly sad. When he brought them back early Sunday, he stayed out longer with the child he was taking to dinner. There are many times when it has been obvious how much he misses them.<P>And then, on the other hand, he has repeatedly cut back on visitation, in spite of the fact that the children have asked to see more of him. He has done things like ask to come to their birthday celebration, then two weeks later change his mind and say he doesn't want to. And every time he does something like this, he gets angry, and there is a particular edge to his voice. Yes, he makes the choice to do or not do something, but I am sure she is telling him what that choice should be - he will do whatever she says, and then turn around and direct his anger and resentment at me.

Nellie--<P>I want you to try something. It's gonna be a 180 deg. turnaround.<P>It's real simple, but at first, it will seem the hardest thing in the world to do. Stop dwelling on what's going on over there at OW's house...and...get happy. Involve yourself in other things; take up a new hobby, or revive an old one. Don't worry about your H's mood swings, or the whys of them. <P>You just may get your H's attention again. Not for being a mom, but for being the woman he married...and a fine one at that. And even if you don't, guess what. You will be happy!<P>Please try?<P>------------------<BR>Laura<P>"I cannot care a little for you. I love you only just enough to love you all the way."~~Rod McKuen<P>