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#440235 11/24/03 04:12 PM
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Hello, everyone.

I'm here for a last ditch attempt at saving my marriage.
I'll give you a little background info. (You can see all other relevant sats at the bottom of my post)

I found out last November that my husband was "talking" to another woman. I have not been able to figure out who this person is. He is unwilling to tell me as he quote: "Knows how I am and doesn't want to be embarrassed."
He also tells me this is someone he knew WAY before he knew me and he has been talking with on and aff for 6 years.

I caught them on the phone. He had gone downstairs in the basement to talk to her and had unplugged the phone in our office.

I asked that he tell me about the reasons this happened and who this person was. He has never really talked to me much about it. Other than to say the typical...
"I wasn't attracted to her." "It wasn't what you think." "We were never physical."

He did call her and tell her he shouldn't talk to her anymore as he had things to work out with his wife and the relationship between them wasn't helping any. I was not allowed to listen in on the message he left or anything. At the time I was not more demanding with boundaries as I had a newborn son to think about and was terrified at the thought of being alone with the children. He seemed to feel more badly about leaving her this message than he did about the fact he had just devesated a woman who was not even healed from the birth of his son.

He has been creul and heartless since this has happened. I have not heard I love you in over a year. He tells me one day he'll leave and the next he'll stay. There is no talk of issues in the marriage. I am supposed to just forget and forgive and never ask him any questions. He was a wonderful husband and father prior to this. I could not have been more shocked.

I do not have access to his passwords on his office voicemail or email. He FREAKED out last week as he thought I had been messing with his cell phone. (which I wasn't) It just seems to me that he is being overly secretive and lying. He tells me I have no right to know what he does- that he is a grown man. I don't think he stopped talking with her for one day.

At any rate, I have implemented a Plan A approach since last December. I have started anti-depressants and have begun to try to treat him the same way I did when we were married- Lots of attention, admiration and respect. (Not that I stopped- I just think his impression of life with children and all of the work I have *2 jobs* is unrealistic) I make him dinner every night, do not question his whereabouts, do not ask him about the other woman or if he is still in contact with her, do not snoop, do not complain about watching the children....

IT HAS NOT HELPED !! It has just made it easier for him to be an [censored].

He came home this weekend after working overtime and became enraged that the children had toys on the floor. I had decided to watch a movie with them and relax. Everyone must walk on eggshells around him. I told him "How dare he call me lazy in front of our children"

He became VERY angry and locked himself inside of the van in the garage. I asked him to come out and talk and he just started screaming about how I trapped him into marriage and how he is so F'in done with me. To screw Thelma and Louise that it was just going to be himself and himself on a road trip around the country screwing anyone he could along the way.

He also began a countdown and told me I could have everything he makes- if I JUST LEAVE HIM ALONE. 10-9-8-7-6... "Awww... Too Late!"
He started screaming and crying 'Why, God- I've Tried to be a good person...WHY must I endure this hell!!??"

It was all so horrible I broke down and cried and begged him (I know) to let me talk to him. He would roll down the window a little say "No" through the crack and laugh. The more I cried, the more he pointed at me laughing while continuing to roll down the windows and roll them up again. He would also pretend he was driving away waving and smiling while pointing at me and laughing.

My son fell while this was going on and split his lip badly. I saw all of the blood and was scared and asked my husband to come and check on his son. HE REFUSED TO COME IN even though his son was screaming out for him and all of our girls were crying !!

I am at the pont where I am disgusted and feel like giving up. The only resolution to last night was that he told me "You have me until I die" Like it was a horrible and obligatory death sentence.

I am so sick of feeling like his biggest regret- which he never stops telling me daily. He also tells me I tricked him into marriage and got pregnant just to seal the deal and keep him. He will not work on issues. I just go about my business, kissing his [censored] while he treats everyone like crap and comes and goes as he pleases for work and other fraternal activities.

A bit of added info included that we are both ex Jehovah's Witnesses. My husband was disfellowshipped (cast out from the congregation and cut off from all socialization from friends and family) for dating a non believer. (ME)

He has never gotten over this and refuses to talk about it or become involved in the faith again.

Sorry so long, but please anyone with any insight or advice- I'm listening!

<small>[ November 24, 2003, 03:36 PM: Message edited by: wittlewifeypoo ]</small>

#440236 11/24/03 04:38 PM
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Do you think he is really having an affair? I think that his behavior is pretty bizarre. And what ever is going on inside his head? What are things that could make him behave so weird? Any kind of trauma, mental or physical? Were you pregnant when you got married? Is he resentful about leaving the Jehovah Witnesses? That is a very cohesive brand religion. And that may be a big part of the weird behaviors.

MC is a good move. And reading here helps. Read the Harley material. It helps with your perspective. Sounds like your husband may either need meds or is on too many of something.

Hope you are doing ok today. You can get lots of mental support here. Hang in there as you are not alone! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

#440237 11/24/03 07:25 PM
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WFLOWER-
To answer some of your questions...

Yes, I do think he's having an affair. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
No, I was not pregnant when we married. I had a daughter from a previous relationship.
My husband was raised by a bi-polar schizophrenic mother and an absent drug addicted father- I'm sure there are issues aplenty.
Yes, I am sure he misses the fellowship of the religion. He was born and raised in it. I came into the religion later in my life. Disfellowshipping is similar to shunning.
I am just wondering where I should go from here. I am thinking of sitting down and telling him that he needs to decide what he wants or get out?!! (Plan B)
Just not really sure where to proceed.

<small>[ November 24, 2003, 06:29 PM: Message edited by: wittlewifeypoo ]</small>

#440238 11/25/03 09:47 AM
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I just go about my business, kissing his [censored] while he treats everyone like crap and comes and goes as he pleases for work and other fraternal activities.

My advise to you would be to go about your business, but stop kissing his A**. It only encourages this behaviour.

I have a different perspective. He may or may not be having an A. Yes his behaviour his really bizarre. But, my H also started acting strange, irrational and immature beyond belief. There was no A. He, too, has control and anger management issues and questionable coping skills.

Since your H's disfellowship, he's feeling isolated and trapped. He wants out. And because you are the closest one to him, he blames you. It can't be his fault that his life is the way it is so it must be yours. Look at his behaviour in the car. I could see a child acting that way--not a grown man like he professes.

What happened that led to his disfellowship?

If he's acting like a child, why not treat him like one? What would you do if one of your children did this?

#440239 11/25/03 10:53 AM
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((((((wittlewifeypoo))))))

Boy have you got your hands full! Two jobs, four children, husband having problems. Are your parents close by? You need some help, girlfriend!

Okay, so you need to get your plan together.

#1 I see your husband as probably having an affair ... cell phone incident, comes and goes as he pleases. So that's one thing to deal with.

#2 A deeper thing to deal with, however, is that he could have bipolar tendencies. It is hereditary. Sometimes it doesn't show up until well into someone's 20s or 30s. Anyone in the medical/psychological field here that can help? What does she do? How can she help him? How can she find out if he is bipolar when he is acting the way he is with her?

If you get answers to the bipolar thing, proceed with that. Otherwise, I would say that it's time for Plan B. Maybe TooMuchCoffeeMan will check in with you.

Take care of yourself the best you can. Get some help from your parents, a best friend, if you don't belong to a church just call one and tell them you need some help.

Much love and I'll pray for you!

#440240 11/25/03 12:15 PM
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I will adress some of the things you mentioned.

I know I get the advice to not treat him with kindness. However, being that he was so neglected as a child I see some of his behavior as "testing". If I do this, will she not love me? Will she change? I swear I can see the boy in him when he does some of the things he does.

He was disfellowshipped because he was dating a non baptized member of the faith. We had premarital relations and this was the main reason. We continued to see one another and tried to keep our relationship moral. We attended services faithfully and I progressed as far as one can in this religion without baptism.

The elders waited over a year after we were married to reinstate him. By then, it was too late. His friends had abandoned him and the others always treated him as a marked man. We were unable to continue on spiritually and I know when we no longer put our God first we lost much in our marriage.

I am unsure if he is involved sexually with another. To know of his upbringing and the inner turmoil it would cause.... I do doubt it at times.

I have no family to turn to. I was an adopted child (by my grandparents). My grandmother is dead and my grandpa is so consumed by depression he no longer contacts me. The rest of my family is one loony bunch, so not much to lean on there.

My husband's family is strained. His father passed away at the age of 49 and his mother is- well, she is how she is.

#440241 11/25/03 12:20 PM
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Stung....

I would really like to know more about this bi-polar thing as well. I don't feel as though even if he is this ill he would ever get help. I do know he is most certainly depressed.

His emotions do cycle rapidly. I can't ever know if he'll be nice or angry when I see him.

#440242 11/25/03 02:49 PM
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Your husband sounds mentally ill, either bi-polar or severely depressed or manic-depressive or something. The scene you describe in the car is beyond the pale.

If I were you I would get some professional counseling -- on your own, without his knowledge. Contact Steve Harley or Penny (posts here as cerri)at the links in my signature. You can counsel privately by phone with them and get some professional insights and advice.

If you have been basically Plan Aing for 11 months and he is still being emotionally abusive you need a change of strategy. I can't say what it is...probably a decision to either get counseling or seperate.

Does his mother shows signs of mental illness?

#440243 11/26/03 07:12 PM
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wittlewifeypoo here's something that may help:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Dr Willard Harley:

"In general, I recommend separation when at least one spouse cannot control destructive behavior. An ongoing affair, of course, is one of those situations. Hence, plan B. But other situations such as physical and verbal abuse, where one spouse's mental or physical safety is as risk, are also grounds for separation. As in the case of infidelity, if one spouse is abusive, I often recommend plan A first, where, through negotiation (without anger, disrespect or demands), an attempt is made to overcome the abuse without separating.

But in some cases, the safety risks are so great that plan B should be implemented immediately, with no time for plan A. In these cases, treatment for the abusive habit must take place during separation, and some evidence must exist that the risk has been greatly reduced, or completely eliminated, before the spouses should return to each other. Then, after being together again, the formerly abusive spouse should be held accountable by others for his or her behavior to assure the other spouse's safety."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Affair or not, if your safety as well as the children's is in danger from your H's bizarre behavior, then you may want to take Dr Harley's advice to implement Plan B. Your safety and the children's is paramount.

#440244 11/28/03 11:12 PM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I would really like to know more about this bi-polar thing as well. I don't feel as though even if he is this ill he would ever get help. I do know he is most certainly depressed </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My sister is bi-polar. I haven't read too much on it. It used to be called manic-depressive. You go through periods where you can't sleep for days, must keep moving, can't sit for a minute. Then you have days in a row where you can't get out of bed, don't want to live.

Check it out on the net. Maybe some site like webMD or something. There has to be someone here who has experienced this with themselves or their spouse. Anyone out there?

#440245 11/29/03 11:11 AM
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Hi, everyone.
Thanks for the advice so far. I do not think from your description of bi-polar, Stung, that this is what is wrong with my husband.

I also do not feel I am in danger of being physically hurt by him. I am not 100% sure I am ready for Plan B. The thought of being alone with the children terrifies me.

He has been such a jerk over this vacation period. He gets up right away in the AM and leaves to go work on our other house. I know he is there- I have checked up on him. It's just like he can't wait to be out of here. I know he is stressed by the fact we're carrying two mortgage payments right now, but not to spend any time with the family is ridiculous.

I am becoming very bitter as I don't feel it is fair for me to have to watch the children on vacation as I have them the majority of the time during the week. I do not have family to help with them. (on either side)

He is also increasingly cutting me down. He was watching a commercial for The Simple Life (it's a new reality series coming up on Fox) and was ogling the women on there. I know he was doing it to get a reaction from me. I did comment that if he was looking for women like that, he might want to start cruising the junior high schools.

His response was, "Hey, whatever it takes."

It just really makes me angry as he says nothing to me about my appearance. I know I am attractive, but I just hate the fact that he can't mention anything nice about me at all. It's as though ANYONE but me does it for him.

He also was wondering who was in the garage this morning. My 6 year old had left her magic wand in the van and had gone out to get it. He was accusatory like I must have been out there going through the call log on his phone.(Which I thought about doing... but didn't.)

I am to a point where I am becoming SO bitter that this is affecting every aspect of my life. I want to sit him down and ask him if he is still seeing this woman and if he is "DONE" with our marriage. I need to know if this is a bad idea.

I feel in my gut it probably is, BUT I really need to at least discuss some issues. This is driving me crazy.

He wouldn't even have a Thanksgiving dinner for our children. It as if he feels..
"If I'm miserable, everyone else will be too."

I'm almost at my breaking point.

#440246 11/29/03 11:47 AM
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Okay, here is my 2 cents worth. You're losing your love for him, so it's time to DO something!

I'm not an expert, keep in mind, but if he is still having an affair,I feel you need to Plan B.

Now, what if he ISN'T having an affair anymore? I don't know about that. I see a few possibilities:

1. Get him in counseling
2. Get him to see a doctor
3. A Plan B, but the letter would reflect "when he can treat you and the children with respect" or something similar to that

Hey, what does everyone else think she should do?

<small>[ November 29, 2003, 10:49 AM: Message edited by: Stung by a Bee ]</small>

#440247 11/29/03 11:48 AM
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Your husband's behavior is frustrating and sad. He's making like miserable for you and your children and I particulary hate the children part. As adults we can find ways to deal and move on, but it is very hard for children to deal with. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

#440248 11/29/03 11:29 PM
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Read the Plan A links in my signature line. They should help you with boundaries.

#440249 11/30/03 07:58 AM
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Wifeypoo...

You need a plan....
a plan that focuses you and nurtures you in the strength you will need to what you have to do...

If I had to guess it sounds to me like he is/was having an emotional if not physical affair with someone that has recently broken it off...
whether he broke it off or her it sounds just like the behaviors of someone in withdrawl...

the outlashing and "blaming" you for you for this...

screaming about how I trapped him into marriage and how he is so F'in done with me.

Here's what I suggest...


1. Get a copy of his cell phone records...
there are people here and posts that have the information to get cell phone records...
search these posts...or start a new post for the way to do this...
I obviously don't know or i would tell you.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

2. Get yourself in to some sort of counseling...for your own sanity and self esteem...
you need to establish a network that strengthens, renews and supports you...not in complaining about your husband type of thing...but one in which you have just the support of others who can understand the stress you are under and become a good sounding board for you...

Use a babysitter that is reliable if you have to just so that you have some time from the children and are with some healthy adult...
do not isolate yourself with just him and his treatment...the longer this goes on as being "normal" the more you will adjust and adapt to keeping things like they are


ask him if he is still seeing this woman and if he is "DONE" with our marriage. I need to know if this is a bad idea.


this is a bad idea becuase it is not he who is done with his marriage...it is you who are done with accepting this treatment and disrepect in your home...

you can not change him so you must focus and change you...

He wouldn't even have a Thanksgiving dinner for our children. It as if he feels..

He behavior is toxic to you and your children...I hope that you and the children went ahead and had a thanksgiving dinner without him...
that you need in your plan A...to be inviting him to do these activities with you....
expect him to decline...but go on with them...and enjoy life and your family....

he can not control you without your consent...and if you consented to no thanksgiving dinner then you own that choice...regardless of his..

you need to empower yourself....

I am not 100% sure I am ready for Plan B. The thought of being alone with the children terrifies me.


I would think the thought of living another day the way things are would be more terrifying...


Do not power struggle or feed into his tantrums...
if he calls you lazy...answer back one time..

I am sorry about the toys...but the kids and I are watching a movie...and I will clean them up when done..
and be done with that..
do not rise to his bait of name calling..the kids will pay more attention to how far it escalates to one insane comment..
if he continues to berate you or escalates bundle the kids up and go out...

I would say attempt one last ditch effort to put into writing what you think...
sort of a pre-plan b letter...

use your own words and own feelings without blaming him...

speak of the love you have left for him..
and the deep belief you have in him as a person..

he expects blame and confrontation..
surprise him in the letter with you deep felt concern about how he is feeling and doing in his life..

often doing the exact opposite of what someone believes or expects gets there attention..
tell him you are worried about him..
worried about how bad he appears to feeling..and you are lonely for him and want him to be happy...

BUT wifeypoo...
i think that you have to seriously consider that plan b even though scary is not as scary as living another year without decency in your home...
for you and your children deserve that...

I believe he is having problems with his OW and trying to blame you..
don't take the blame...and don't feed into his behavior...

speak your love and concern...and then make a plan to protect yourself and what love you have left...

ARK

#440250 11/30/03 03:07 PM
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My husband was bipolar. Approximately 5% of the population is affected by the disorder. For many years he went undiagnosed. He would be relatively "normal" then would go into a manic phase where he would start lots of different projects, sleep little and have inflated and slightly grandiose ideas of things he wanted to do and accomplish. Then he would drop into the depressive state and would be miserable for weeks on end. During those times he could be quite emotionally abusive which was totally opposite to his usual behaviour. Then a little over a year ago he went into a severely manic state and had to be hospitalized. He was delusional and totally out of control. It seemed as if he was exactly the opposite from his normal behaviour in every way. He was a danger to himself and to me. He was given a lot of different medication to stabilize him and was released from the hospital after two weeks. In spite of the medication, he became extremely depressed and never came back out of it. He committed suicide on Oct. 3, 2003. If you really think it's possible your husband is bipolar, he will need medical intervention, there is nothing you can do to help him except get him medical attention. There are many excellent websites on the net. If you do a search for bipolar disorder, you will find a lot of information, including lists of symptoms which may help you decide if this is possibly what's going on with him. Good luck.
One other thing, it is believed there is a strong genetic component to bipolar disorder, if his mother was diagnosed bipolar and schizophrenic there is a much greater chance he may be as well.

<small>[ November 30, 2003, 02:12 PM: Message edited by: Medusa ]</small>

#440251 12/01/03 09:33 AM
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he can not control you without your consent...and if you consented to no thanksgiving dinner then you own that choice...regardless of his..

A person only has the power over you that you give to them. I know you're feeling somewhat trapped. Especially without support of family on either side. We have 4 children as well. I had a similar situation to yours except my H's behaviour wasn't as violent or bizarre.

You have the power to do something. There are shelters for women and children who can help you if you decide to leave. If you tell them what you have told us, they have connections to all sorts of people who can help you with an intervention. You must decide for yourself how badly you want things to change. You cannot change him, but you can change you and how you choose to deal with it. You deserve better than this.

What area do you live in? Maybe Cerri can offer some suggestions for you through her contacts.

The unknown is scary. I know. But is this the life you want for yourself and your children? What kind of example is he setting for them?

<small>[ December 01, 2003, 08:33 AM: Message edited by: SAB ]</small>

#440252 12/02/03 01:00 AM
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Hi.
I appreciate everyone's advice. I am curious to know if you all feel I am in an abusive situation? I don't think I am.

It just seems as though the chord runs strongly through this thread.

I am wondering why I should not go along with what he wants. If I am against him it makes things so much worse than if I just stay quiet and try to swallow how angry I am. I am not allowed to mention his contact with the OW as that is just me rehashing old crap. He gets very angry and will turn up the radio, cut me off, turn on a video game or just walk away from me whenever I talk about something he doesn't like.

We talked last night and he tells me that he has not felt anything for me for a long time and that he is just hanging in there for now. He told me he has no plans to leave because he has nowhere to go. He tells me that he doesn't even know if I'm attractive because he can't even see me that way at all anymore. He told me that he won't do anything, that he is tired of being sorry for things he had not done.

I know it sounds awful, but I felt better when I heard this. I have been so worried for so long that he would abandon me with the children it was a relief.

Then when we went to bed he mentioned all kinds of little digs about divorce. I just ignored him but I had the all familiar sick twisted feeling in my gut. I find it almost impossible to sleep at night.

I also want to let everyone know he recently found out I was corresponding via e-mail with two men. One I talk with about dogs and dog training and occasionally we bring up the marriage. The other is in a similar situation as me and we taklk about our marriages. I don't love any man other than my husband. I am totally comfortable with him reading anything I wrote and would give it to him if he asked.

He was so angry I thought he would explode. Then he tells me he doesn't care if I'm doing it. That he knows I'm only being nice just till someone better comes along. He knows I am looking for someone else to pay for me and coddle me as he says.

I asked him why it was OK to talk to another woman whom he met physically in person for months for lunch and it was not OK for me to e-mail someone else that I have never even met in person or talked to on the telephone.

He told me he wasn't attracted to her so nothing happened. He also told me of someone came along who found him attractive and the feeling was mutual that he would be done with our marriage in less than an hour. he also said that he thinks he's attractive enough to have a girlfriend and he wishes he had one. He also told me at times he wants to find some relatively attractive woman and just sleep with her for his "out".

I showed him that I had told these men I would no longer e-mail them and he threw the printout of the e-mails in my face and told me he doesn't care what I do. If he doesn't care then why is he so angry and if he wanbts out this bad why is he not moving forward with divorce proceedings?

#440253 12/01/03 02:27 PM
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He also told me of someone came along who found him attractive and the feeling was mutual that he would be done with our marriage in less than an hour. he also said that he thinks he's attractive enough to have a girlfriend and he wishes he had one. He also told me at times he wants to find some relatively attractive woman and just sleep with her for his "out". I showed him that I had told these men I would no longer e-mail them and he threw the printout of the e-mails in my face and told me he doesn't care what I do. If he doesn't care then why is he so angry and if he wanbts out this bad why is he not moving forward with divorce proceedings?

He's using you because he knows he can get away with this. He's trying to make you feel like you're doing him a favour. He doesn't have anyone but you and the children. So, he's going to make you suffer for it. He won't proceed with D proceedings because he won't want the responsibility.

Of course he's angry that you are in contact with other men. He can't control that. Rules are meant for everyone else but him. I get the impression that there's also a double standard here between what is acceptable for men is different than for women.

Don't suffer in silence. He's counting on that to have power over you. Tell everyone who will listen and be able to support you. He will be angry about this. Too bad. If what he's doing is OK then he has nothing to worry about what other's think of his behaviour. You have yourself and your children's welfare to think about.

#440254 12/02/03 05:38 AM
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Posts: 3,451
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 3,451
[QUOTE]Originally posted by wittlewifeypoo:
<strong> Hi. I appreciate everyone's advice. I am curious to know if you all feel I am in an abusive situation? I don't think I am. It just seems as though the chord runs strongly through this thread.</strong>

You are certainly in an emotionally abusive situation, which can be a precursor to physical abuse. Your H seems to act very disrespectfullly.

My guess from huis reaction to the email correspondence with other men is that he still has feelings for you, but he is a bully and probably suffers from low self esteem. So he blames you for his unhappiness and feels better when he belittles you.

You need to set some boundaries as to what behavior you will not stand for.

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