wifey,

I guess the question I have is what are your own plans about the fact you currently have a husband who is...

not participating in the family
extremely defensive
full of blame
and angry

I am wondering why I should not go along with what he wants. If I am against him it makes things so much worse than if I just stay quiet and try to swallow how angry I am. I am not allowed to mention his contact with the OW as that is just me rehashing old crap. He gets very angry and will turn up the radio, cut me off, turn on a video game or just walk away from me whenever I talk about something he doesn't like.

expecting love and respect to exist between spouses is not being "against" someone...

having boundaries that make you and your spouse feel safe when concerning other people is not unrealistic..in a marriage...

having disagreements AND learning how to hash them out productively is the goal of a marraige...not withdrawl, video games and anger..

you are a full participant in patterns that serve no good..
hurt both parties
increase frustration and isolation for both parties
set up patterns that will spill over into rearing the children..how will you two ever agree on discipline issues, etc if you don't know how to?


also want to let everyone know he recently found out I was corresponding via e-mail with two men. One I talk with about dogs and dog training and occasionally we bring up the marriage. The other is in a similar situation as me and we taklk about our marriages. I don't love any man other than my husband. I am totally comfortable with him reading anything I wrote and would give it to him if he asked.

You must stop both correspondences...both are innapropriate...to be discussing marriage issues one on one with other men...is not fair to your husband...and you are way way way to vulnerable with the way things are...even if you don't see it..
also you can not tell or ask your husband to cease his interactions if you are doing the same thing....

I know it sounds awful, but I felt better when I heard this. I have been so worried for so long that he would abandon me with the children it was a relief.

I have great and grave concerns about this ...basically this guy has said I am staying here and will treat you like crap...and that comforted you..

would you want any of your own children to live a day as you do in your marriage..
would be proud to learn that any of your sons treat their wives the way you are treated...

There is something seriously amiss when one spouse treats the other spouse as the enemy...

I think you need counselling today....
I think the longer you find comfort in him being "there" even if the price is that he is a beast to you...is the warning flag that should scare you...
that your own behavior and reaction is what you should focus on...not his childish crap..
and figure out why you allow such in your home all at the price of just having him home...

what are YOUR thoughts on this wifey..
what do you want..
what is your plan to get to where you want to be...
you are floundering and he is acting like a caged shark...

blessings to you...
ARK

Good morning.

I will address some of the isssues brought up in responses.

I honestly do not know what my plan is in this situation. I can make him leave and break apart my family or I can stay and hope things will get better and that he will "come around" eventually.
None of the choices I am left with at this point are nice or what I wanted. Both are enormously painful.

I do not know what it is like to live in a normal relationship. I have always had a dysfunctional life and it always surprises me the way things are for other people. To me, that is not normal.

I know I should get counseling. I have major abandonment issues from being left by the side of the road when I was 7 and also my first husband threw me out when I was 16 and had an 11 day old infant. He left me in the rain in front of the Y and I begged him to let me stay. I have been physically and sexually abused.

All throughout my life my things have been placed in garbage bags when people are "done" with me. I have been tossed around from one home to the next. My husband is the only person who has stayed in my life for longer than a few years.

I get so scared when he talks about leaving me that I am willing to do anything for him to stay. I know it is sick and pathetic, BUT the hope that he will one day be the person he was keeps me hanging in there. I don't understand what happened to the person I knew.

Every time I get counseling things get worse at home. He thinks I am "talking" about him and would be furious that I am posting on a public forum. He would tell you I am amking a bigger issue of this than it is or that I am exaggerating. I'm not sure what is true after a while.

I know people tell me all the time that I am intelligent and beautiful and a very nice person. I don't see this when I look at myself. I just see someone that has never been good enough or special enough for anyone to stay.

I feel weird posting this to a board, but it is very hard for me to talk about my feelings. I almost never do. When I try to tell my husband about my life he puts his fingers in his ears or just tells me to save the $30 bottle of wine.

All of my life people have taught me to be quiet, be good and maybe you can stay another day.

You ask if I would be ashamed of my son if he treated his wife this way? I would, but honestly sometimes I think everyone treats others the way I get treated. I know my husband is nice in public. I figure maybe that is how things are.

Hope this has given you a bit of background info on my situation....

<small>[ December 02, 2003, 07:42 AM: Message edited by: wittlewifeypoo ]</small>

I do not know what it is like to live in a normal relationship. I have always had a dysfunctional life and it always surprises me the way things are for other people. To me, that is not normal.

I know people tell me all the time that I am intelligent and beautiful and a very nice person. I don't see this when I look at myself. I just see someone that has never been good enough or special enough for anyone to stay.

All of my life people have taught me to be quiet, be good and maybe you can stay another day.

You have some serious self-esteem issues which are justifiably so. However, you have the power to stop this NOW. How about treating people as if they can stay another day in your life? You are good enough. You have children who look up to you for courage, guidance and an example. Are you going to perpetuate this cycle or are you going to start a new one? This is YOUR life--not everyone else's to control. If you have the strength and courage to post here, then you have it within you to stand up for yourself.

What about loving G*D and yourself first? When you love yourself, then you are open for others to love you as you should be loved and cherished. ARK is right. You need counselling. If not for yourself, then do it for the future of your children and their relationships.

I have been where you are. I have a very good idea you feel and see yourself. It's because you are good enough that you must do this. I know you want help. That's why you are here. You've come to the right place.

{{{{{{{{{{{wittlewifeypoo}}}}}}}}}}}

I do not know what it is like to live in a normal relationship.

well the good news is...no the great news is..is that that doesn't mean that you can't have a healthy relationship..
doesn't mean you don't deserve a healthy relationship...
just means you have to learn how to..
and the truth is that even the healthiest of marriages are works in progress...
no good marriages exist externally...good marriages exist when people work on making them good..

hope is a good thing...a great thing...but just hoping won't change anything....

I get so scared when he talks about leaving me that I am willing to do anything for him to stay.
that's sounds like it must be pretty scary and lonely for you...
And yet what is it you fear...not being told all those negative and painful things...every day..
feeling good about yourself..

Every time I get counseling things get worse at home. He thinks I am "talking" about him and would be furious that I am posting on a public forum. He would tell you I am amking a bigger issue of this than it is or that I am exaggerating. I'm not sure what is true after a while.

that is such a common common response...god forbid you get healthy because you will realize the right and ability you have to make and set boundaries that are safe and nurturing...and then how does he treat you...

you must get counseling today...and wifey...I am not one to throw lables of abuse and such lightly but now that you have disclosed your history...in conjuction with his treatment...I believe you should seek out counsel and guidance from a shelter...

his behavior would be enough to try the patience of someone with excellant coping skills...and with yours being so fragile too non-existant..I am very afraid that you will live the way you are today for a long long time..
and that's no way to live..
you deserve to have you life filled with people who support you and you can support...
filled with people who respect you and you can respect.

you deserve to be able to lay down each night and find the rest you need to strengthen and nurture you so you can raise your children to be healthy adults...not lay next to someone who threatens and belittles you...

you deserve these things because all humans deserve dignity in their lives...you are no different than any of us....

seek support today..
you will find you are not alone
you will learn how much you are in control of you and your surroundings..
you will learn to speak your mind and peace without fear...

you are worthy of all of this...

ARK

UPDATE:
Just thought I'd check in to let everyone know how things are going and my thoughts and feelings...


Last night I didn't get to leave my second job until after 8 PM.
I had made my husband dinner over there to save time as our old house is very close to my other job's location.

We came home and the older girls wanted to watch "The Simple Life" on TV. There was only about 14-15 minutes left. I watched it with them and husband just started storming around the house looking for things that were wrong.

I continued to watch the show with the girls. I guess he went to take a shower and there wasn't any more clean towels and the little one had left a few of her Barbie things in the tub. That was it for the entire night.

He told me how he was so pissed that I wasn't keeping up after the house. That it should look perfect if I am here all day. That I should be governing the condition of the middle girls bedroom more. That the bathroom that they use frequently always has stuff on the floor.... You get the idea. Keep in mind everyone else says my hoime is incredibly clean.

I work two jobs- one from home (telecommuting)and the other is a personal assistant job. We have four children and I take care of all of them in addition to this. I do not have daycare- I watch them all while I work.

Then he went on to tell me how me making him a sandwich in the morning for work and making him dinner was not going to "fix" things. I told him that I hoped when he ate the sandwich when he was hungry mid day at work or when he returned from work tired and hungry that these things would show that I care about him.

He just told me "whatever- I don't have time to think of you during the day.."

I had begun to fix him dinner every night and make him snacks for work and in the morning as I feel his love language is "acts of service"

I then went on to praise him about his working very hard for our family, sympathized with him about having to work so hard on the other house, sympathized with him about all of his work responsibilities and how it must be disappointing to come home and not have things the way he wants them to be...

I did also tell him that as a woman it is hard to be motivated to go that extra mile as far as domestic work when you feel so neglected. I let him know I was lonely and felt unloved and unappreciated. I told him I did not trust him when he told me he would be certain places as he has done nothing to earn back any trust.

I also let him know that I feel like my whole life has been taken from me in the last 1.5 years. That everything was different for me and nothing was good or nice for me anymore. I told him that until he rids himself of the idea that this other person is perfect and better I can't fix anything. I let him know I cannot compete with a single carefree woman with none of the responsibilities I have.

He told me it "was his problem". That he was over the initial anger of the housework. That it didn't matter to him. That everything was fine. I let him know that i would try harder in that area because I did not want him to bury issues that made him unhappy. I feel this was a big factor in what happened leading to his relationship wioth another woman. He was unhappy- yet he said nothing about what exactly was making him feel that way. I thought things were fine.

I asked him to tell me if he was seeing someone else so that I may move on with my life. He just blew it all off and asked me
"Would you tell me if you were going to see someone else?" I told him that of course I would...
Then he's like "Yeah right" "Afternoons are best" referring to one of my e-mails to a man I talk to re: dogs/dog training strictly via e-mail to let him know it was better to e-mail me and get a response in the afternoon.

He told me he didn't trust me. I told him he had a lot of nerve telling me that considering what he's done to me. He has met OW in person and had lunch/talks with her on the phone. I am just penpals with someone else.

Then I told him that if he was done with this marriage to let me know so I could get some closure and peace. He told me he HAS been telling me this all along. He's been done for years- I just don't listen to him.

Of course, this upset me. He goes from telling me we'll be married for life in another conversation a few minutes before to this... Am I just not accepting what he's telling me?

I cried all last night into the morning. I left the room so as not to disturb him. He wanted to go to bed at nine. Yet he can play video games until 2 am without any thought or blame as to how tired he is.
If I keep him up he is livid.

I mentioned to him that I know in reading those damn self help books that my "love language" is probably physical touch. He just let me cry and lay there- no comforting no nothing. it was terrible. I asked him to please tell me things would be fine- he did but it was loaded with sarcasm.

This morning he saw my face and looked like he felt bad. I made him his sandwich and sat with him while he ate breakfast. He kissed me before we got up and before he left he knelt down next to me and held my hand and kissed me again. I told him that he had to make a decision about what he wants. I can't do this anymore. If he is done then after we sell the other house we have to begin to try and bring this to an end. He just shushed me and said
"Wifey...." like don't get started on this again.

So here I sit today again not sure where my life stands and how to feel.....

Does anyone feel that this plan A is working. Why is he so resentful of what
I'm trying to do and so critical? How do I know if he truly does have feelings for me or if he is bailing on this marriage? He
could technically just be "hanging in there" until our other home sells. How do I get on with my life when I feel so unready to let go? How can I tell if he is still seeing this woman. I don't even know who she is.... I know she exists as Dday was when I caught them on the phone. He will tell me nothing about her.

Help!

<small>[ December 18, 2003, 07:55 AM: Message edited by: wittlewifeypoo ]</small>

I'll stick with my previous statement -- he sounds like a manipulating bully to me.

I do not think that shows of "weakness" on your part are constructive -- crying, asking about OW, etc.

His behavior has to change. You need to set boundaries as to what you will put up with. He has to treat you with respect and be consistent in that, not allow you to be his punching bag when he feels like bullying some one.

You should identify the behaviors that are lovebusters to you, explain them to him, and be consitent in not accepting them without comment/challenge.