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#440986 12/18/03 08:23 PM
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Hello, All.
I need advice as far as what to do in this situation....

My husband was supposed to leave his job early today to work on our other home to get it ready for the market.

There was to be a Christmas party at his job today and he said he was not going. This event was to be held in the late afternoon during work hours.

It is now 8:30 and I have heard nothing from him. He is over 2 1/2 hours late.I have tried to call him twice on his cellular phone to let him know I am home from my job and that he didn't have to pick me up- like he was worried..... We had talked aboput what I would fix for dinner and everything.

I am wondering how to react when he just "shows up". I find it hard to believe this work function went on this long. I know he was not at our other house or he would have answered his phone. I suspect he is with OW.

I am so angry and upset that he didn't have the decency to even pick up the phone..... I know I'll want to jump all over him when he gets home. More importantly,
I am at the point where I'd like to tell him:
"You Win. I Give Up."

#440987 12/18/03 10:01 PM
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In my last post below I said that this is not a time to appear weak to him, since he seems to be something of a bully. So acting upset at his absence just feeds the notion that you are the pursuer and he has the upper hand. I would calmly ask him where he was and appear to be casual about it.

#440988 12/18/03 10:09 PM
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Try to calm yourself (I know it is not easy). When he comes home ask him what happened. When he answers with some BS (bullsh&t) tell him "Wow that hurts, I'd like to discuss this later, but not now." Good luck and hang in there.

#440989 12/18/03 10:33 PM
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wifey,

I read your other thread, and I although I just want to hug you, that won't help you right now. So I'm going to use my best mama star persona instead and tell you that it's time to stop being ruled by your fear and make some plans to change this mess and provide emotional safety for you and your family....and I mean NOW. Your situation is undoubtedly emotionally abusive and it appears to be escalating. So tommorow, I want you to contact the local woman's advocates in your area and get some solid advice about protecting your children and your finances. Your plan A has not worked....and it is now time for you get some help from some real professionals. You can do your counseling by phone with some like cerri, so your H need not know until you are stronger.

But for tonight.....I am going to give you the ABSOLUTE best advice you are going to hear from anywhere. Do NOTHING. Don't ask questions. Don't cry. Don't cause an emotional scene. In fact, go to sleep....even if you have to take something mild to do it. Do not confront this man right now. Don't ask him where he has been or who has been with. It will just be another (possibly dangerous) confrontation and will solve nothing. Because here is what he will say and you know it "It's none of your effing business where I've been."

No amount of crying or sandwiches is going to change this. You are going to have overcome your own personal fears to save your marriage. If you don't.....and you are unwilling to take the risks necessary to change this....he will leave you anyway after every bit of the love in your marriage is destroyed. Those are the facts. And they are terrible and awful facts...but you cannot allow your fear to continue to paralyze you.

Tonight, do nothing. Tommorow...call cerri, and some of the resources in your area. Consider calling a lawyer. And definitely consider moving to Plan B (with a good coach to help you....not alone).

Now....((((((((((wifey)))))))))))

<small>[ December 18, 2003, 09:34 PM: Message edited by: star*fish ]</small>

#440990 12/19/03 09:11 AM
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wifey,

What happened last night? Star* is right (as usual). You have to act as if nothing is amiss. Here's Michelle Werner-Davis' 180 degree list to help you:

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg. plead or implore.
2. No frequent phone calls.
3. Do not point out good points in the marriage.
4. Do not follow her around the house.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future.
6. Do not ask for help from family members.
7. Do not ask for reassurances.
8. Do not buy gifts.
9. Do not schedule dates together.
10. Do not spy on spouse.
11. Do not say "I love you"
12 Act as if you are moving on with your life.
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive.
14. Dont sit around waiting on your spouse, get busy, do things, go to church, ro out with friends, etc.

Star*'s advice above:

15. When home with you spouse (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words.
16. If you are in the habit of asking you spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING
17. You need to make your partner think that you have had a awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life with or without your spouse.
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold- just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and , and more important, realize what she will be missing.
19. No matter wjat you are feeling TODAY only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show her someone she will want to be around with.


20. All questions about marriage should be put on hold.
21. Dont be over enthusiastic.
22. Never loose you cool.
23. Do not argue about how she feels ( it only makes her feelings stronger)
24. Be patient.
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.
26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out.

My advice to you:

27. Take care of yourself ( exercise, sleep, laugh and focus on all the other parts of your life that is not in turmoil)
28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softley.
29. Know that if you can do a 180, you smallest consistent actions will be noticed much more that anywords you can say or write.
30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.


31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.
32. Do NOT BELEIVE ANY OF WHAT YOU HEAR AND LESS THAN 50 PERCENT OOF WHAT YOU SEE, YOUR SPOUSE WILL SPEAK IN ABSOLUTE NEGATIVES BECAUSE SHE IS HURTING AND SCARED.
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes.


The biggest feeling I have is that he's trying to see how far he can push you to get a reaction. DON'T GIVE HIM ONE. Pretend like he doesn't exist if you must. Try to think of what you would do if he weren't in your life.

Let us know how you are. We care about you.

#440991 12/19/03 10:06 AM
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Just checking in with everyone to let you know what happened last night. I was not able to read your advice until this AM.

I will let you know how I handled the situation and you can tell me what you think.

He called me after 9 and told me he was on his way home. I said fine. My voice began to crack slightly and I told him every time he did this crap I worried he would not come home. He replied- Have I ever not come home? I told him I felt he owed me more consideration than he showed me and left it at that.

He came home and I ignored him (because I was stillslightly emotional and didn't want him to know.) He noticed the house was thoroughly cleaned and told me he said I didn't have to do this. I was furious as he was just griping about it the night before but I held back. I told him I did it because it needed done and it made me feel better.

I asked him why he did not call. His reply was Well there could be 2 reasons:
The first would be that I don't really care what the hell you want. The second would be that I had no physical way to call you. Since we know the second reason is not totally true, you pick one. I was furious,but remained calm. It
was as though a switch went off in my head-
THIS IS WRONG.

When we went to our room I told him that at this point we need to decide if we should divorce or not. I told him what I needed from the relationship and that I would no longer put up with his disrespectful behavior. I told him I at least deserved some type of consideration as I am the mother of his children. I stressed to him I was not setting unrealistic demands and that he must attempt to meet some of my needs and let me know in one small way he cares or I will throw him out.

I let him know that by not answering me or participating in the conversation that he was forcing me to make the decision alone. I told him If I have to make a decision alone it will be divorce.

He told me he doesn't want a divorce and he will try to meet some of the needs I talked about. Then in the next breath he told me his path is set before him so he may as well just take it. I told him that if he meant I was obligatory and no other alternative that I would not tolerate it as I deserve to be loved and respected. I assured him I was ready to move on and find someone that would treat me with respect and kindness.

He went on to talk and do his usual facial contortions during our conversation. I asked him:
"Is that man opressed or man suffering a gunshot wound? If you have a calling to be an actor, fine. Just don't audition for me." I find this to be "annoying behavior" on his part and I let him know.

Amazingly, he slept trying to hold me last night and was attentive and kind this morning
letting me know when he would finish work and making plans for our evening.
I did not act overly enthused and did not gush all over him when he showed me affection.

This morning I am feeling sick. I am not sure I want to continue this now that I see what a monster he really has been. It's funny that it took one statement to make me pull my head out- so to crudely speak.

#440992 12/19/03 10:46 AM
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What have you learned?

#440993 12/19/03 10:57 AM
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wifey, the last thing I want to do is add hurt to your already awful situation. Your husband's actions were DEPLORABLE....please remember that as I go through the way you dealt with this. I understand why you react the way you do...I swear I do....but you are handling this about as badly as you can. And to make progress...you must stop.

He called me after 9 and told me he was on his way home. I said fine. My voice began to crack slightly and I told him every time he did this crap I worried he would not come home.

This is a love buster. Try not to use words like "crap" which is judgemntal. Stick to YOUR feelings. "It worries me when you don't call. I'm very upset right now."

He replied- Have I ever not come home? I told him I felt he owed me more consideration than he showed me and left it at that.

Telling him he "owes" you is another love buster. It is a dj and not about your feelings either. "I feel humiliated when you show me so little consideration."

He came home and I ignored him (because I was stillslightly emotional and didn't want him to know.)

Ignoring is another love buster and a form of punishment, which is why I told you to simply avoid him instead...like going to sleep until you could talk about things less emotionally.

He noticed the house was thoroughly cleaned and told me he said I didn't have to do this. I was furious as he was just griping about it the night before but I held back. I told him I did it because it needed done and it made me feel better.

No, you did it because you wanted to show him you cared about his feelings, but instead you you got angry were dishonest about it.

I asked him why he did not call. His reply was Well there could be 2 reasons:
The first would be that I don't really care what the hell you want. The second would be that I had no physical way to call you. Since we know the second reason is not totally true, you pick one. I was furious,but remained calm. It
was as though a switch went off in my head-
THIS IS WRONG.


This is horrible behavior by him, and it IS wrong. Again, express how it makes you feel. "I am so hurt that when you speak to me that way." Thank you for remaining calm...that was a very good thing.

When we went to our room I told him that at this point we need to decide if we should divorce or not.

Don't bring up divorce unless you are ready to follow through...and you ARE NOT.

[/b] I told him what I needed from the relationship and that I would no longer put up with his disrespectful behavior.[/b]

Setting boundaries is fine....you should not put up with disrespectful behavior.

I told him I at least deserved some type of consideration as I am the mother of his children. I stressed to him I was not setting unrealistic demands and that he must attempt to meet some of my needs and let me know in one small way he cares or I will throw him out.

Ahhhhhhh.....you need to practice some better communication skills. If you want respect, then you must give it. If you can't speak without love busting....then find another medium to use until you can. I know you're angry and hurt...but this will not work to change anything in the long run.

I let him know that by not answering me or participating in the conversation that he was forcing me to make the decision alone. I told him If I have to make a decision alone it will be divorce.

More threats and lovebusters.

He told me he doesn't want a divorce and he will try to meet some of the needs I talked about.

He won't meet your needs right now. He won't because he is still involved in the affair. Don't expect him to....deal with the reality.

Then in the next breath he told me his path is set before him so he may as well just take it. I told him that if he meant I was obligatory and no other alternative that I would not tolerate it as I deserve to be loved and respected. I assured him I was ready to move on and find someone that would treat me with respect and kindness.

And if he knows you at all....he will recognize this for the idle threat that it is. You are no where NEAR moving on.

He went on to talk and do his usual facial contortions during our conversation. I asked him:
"Is that man opressed or man suffering a gunshot wound? If you have a calling to be an actor, fine. Just don't audition for me." I find this to be "annoying behavior" on his part and I let him know.


His actions were incredibly disrespectful, as was your ugly comment.

Amazingly, he slept trying to hold me last night and was attentive and kind this morning
letting me know when he would finish work and making plans for our evening.


Ah....a ray of hope....he'll throw you crumbs for a long time if you let him. It's time to call a REAL counselor, get some other help and go to plan B....NOT DIVORCE.

I did not act overly enthused and did not gush all over him when he showed me affection.

Of course you didn't....why would you?

This morning I am feeling sick. I am not sure I want to continue this now that I see what a monster he really has been. It's funny that it took one statement to make me pull my head out- so to crudely speak.

Please go back to my other post and read the advice I gave you about what to do today. You may not realize it, but you are enabling his horrible treatment of you. You need help learning to handle these things in a positive and proactive way....if not....you will get that divorce you are threatening. You know the old saying "be careful what you ask for, you may get it", well it applies here.

I want you to know that while I'm giving you a hard time....I am so sorry about the situation that you are enduring. It is awful and must be causing you great pain everyday. Please get on track and begin taking action. ((((hugs)))) to you.

#440994 12/19/03 02:08 PM
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Hello.
Just checking in on this post.

I appreciate your advice. I knew at the time I talked with him I was giving him an ultimatum.
Unfortunately, that is where I am at. I am no longer going to sit by while he does what he wants and treats me like dirt. I'm not sure how to stand up for myself without lovebusting. I'm not sure I even care. I don't think there is love left to "bust".

If we have to seperate to work things out, it will be a plan D (divorce). I will not wait for him while he sows his wild oats with another woman (if that is what this is about) That would be the end of the line for me.

I feel he has perhaps stopped seeing this person and is taking out his anger on me. I have reached the end of the line with my acceptance. A year and a half has been long enough for him to know what he wants. If it's not me and the children then he needs to get out. I have shown him all the good and understanding I am capable of.

He cannot continue to stay here and act this way. I am finished with that plan. If it is so terrible and he is so miserable- he can leave. When he does this I will write him off in the same category as everyone else who has left in my life.

I realized last night I no longer feel the same way for him as I did before. He has killed that.
I am alone all of the time anyway. I know I would be sad, but I am sad now. At least with this closure I can move forward.

I am not bluffing in the fact that is he turns this into another weekend where everyone must suffer because he's unhappy, I will throw him out. I will have police intervention if necessary.

I can't explain why but I feel as though now is the time to put up or shut up. I will not live another day like I have been.

#440995 12/19/03 02:33 PM
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Hi WWP,

Your post indicates that your lovebank is empty, which is dangerous.

Your H needs a wakeup call fast in order to change his behavior and salvage your love for him.

In another post here, someone asked about the timing during the holidays of forcing marital issues. When there are kids involved it might be better to use that time to regroup and plan your strategy.

My advice to you would be:

1. Get to a doc and ask about some anti-deps or anti-anxiety meds. You will need that strength in dealing with your H. It is important to remain calm and unemotional, particularly when your H has a pattern of abusing your emotions.

2. No more relationship talks....

3. ....until you get some professional counsel. Since you are at a MarriageBuilder site, I highly recommend you arrange for a quick emergency phone counseling session with either the Harleys or Penny (posts here as cerri). Contact info for both is in my signature line.

4. Be polite but reserved with your H. Stop querying about his whereabouts or activities.

#440996 12/23/03 08:10 AM
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OK- Back for another update.
If I could title it it would be called:

I think I am mental.

You all remember how I told H off for being late, etc. It was so out of character for me to do this. I NEVER tell him I am unhappy with anything he does.

I also reached a point where I am just tired of this dragging on and on. That hasn't changed. Since my initial post on this topic, much else has changed.

My H has been nice, attentive, funny- even sweet. He took me to the movies over the weekend for the first time in over a year. He has been holding me every night which he hadn't done in a long time.....

He came home from working on our other house to have a nap with me in the afternoon. Shockingly, last night he told me that we should go and get the kids Christmas presents. He also said he was going to pick up a tree on his way home from work tonight. He wants to decorate this tree on Christmas Eve and put the presents under it to suprise the children.

We are nonpracticing Jehovah's Witnesses and had dipped our toes in Christmas before D-Day.
Ever since then he has not acknowledged one holiday. Not even birthdays. I assumed this year would be no different. No one is expecting Christmas.

So, what's my problem? I find all of this hard to swallow. Why? It should be what I wanted to happen..... thus my title for this update.

Here is what I find especially odd. We were talking last night and I told him he must be tired from working on our other home in the morning. He immediately replied-
"What are you saying? You think I wasn't there?"

Now, I didn't think this up until that moment. Then I asked him if he was and he said "Yes."

Do you think he is being nice because of renewed contact with her? How can he do a turnaround this quickly? His comment just freaked me out a little bit.

I told him please to tell me if he was seeing her again. I told him I can't do this again and I told him that I just wanted to fall asleep knowing without a doubt that I was married to an honorable man.

He told me that he has not met any "soul mate". He told me that he knows he has to accept his life as it is and try to make it better. I told him I missed falling asleep thinking he loved me, that we would be together forever and that we were a family. I told him I loved him. I haven't told him for a very long time.

He just responded by saying "Oh, wifey..."
Now he has not said my name in a manner such as this in quite some time. Almost as though he (gasp) had feelings for me.

Keep in mind he was so nice over the time period he was supposedly seeing this person. He was
only nasty after his return from a business trip just prior to getting caught. He has been heartless since that day in November over a year ago.

Why am I so upset by this? Why don't I trust him? Why am I not at least somewhat happy when this is what I wanted? Why do I feel like sabotaging this progress? I honestly feel like leaving so I never have to turn this situation over and over in my mind for another day.......

What's wrong with me?

<small>[ December 23, 2003, 07:18 AM: Message edited by: wittlewifeypoo ]</small>

#440997 12/23/03 11:31 AM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by wittlewifeypoo:
<strong>What's wrong with me? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't know. I'm trying to figure out what is wrong with me. I've advised you strongly twice to get some preofessional counsel and given you the links, but you have not even responded. I don't know what the answers are, but I can tell you where to find them. And I can tell you that self-medicating at this stage is a recipe for divorce.

#440998 12/23/03 11:40 AM
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Mike.

Thank you for your advice. I have listened to what you have told me and am trying to find a way to afford some type of counseling. With two mortgage payments it will be tough. I am currently on anti-depressants and have remained calm but distant from my H.

I am holding off on relationship action until after the holiday. My update was to inform the board that since I stood up to H (although I lovebusted) there has been an odd turnabout in his behavior.

I was also hoping to receive insight as to if I should put much faith in this turnabout. I am afraid as I feel like sabotaging his niceness even though it is what I wanted...... I'm not sure if I should continue distancing or encourage or respond to his efforts.

I am also unsure about what you mean by self-medicating?

<small>[ December 23, 2003, 10:42 AM: Message edited by: wittlewifeypoo ]</small>

#440999 12/24/03 09:05 AM
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If you have experienced this behavior in the past when he was being unfaithful, I would have healthy skepticsm.

Get through the holidays with both eyes open and see if this behavior lasts.

Being accountable for his whereabouts and his actions is a must. If you know where he is and what he is doing, you will begin to trust that this behavior is a true change of heart for the better.

Good luck and God Bless!

#441000 12/26/03 11:24 PM
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by wittlewifeypoo:
<strong> Mike. Thank you for your advice. I have listened to what you have told me and am trying to find a way to afford some type of counseling. With two mortgage payments it will be tough.</strong>

Please consider the financial implications of a divorce and balance it against 300-500 dollars of professional, experienced phione counseling.

<strong>I am currently on anti-depressants and have remained calm but distant from my H.</strong>

I wish I could reach through the internet and inject ADs and AAs into everyone on the JFO board. The importance of this can not be overstated. If you are still breaking down emotionally in speaking with your H, you may want to speak with your doc about your meds, since they are very individualized in effect.

<strong>I am holding off on relationship action until after the holiday. My update was to inform the board that since I stood up to H (although I lovebusted) there has been an odd turnabout in his behavior.</strong>

You set some boundaries and he responded. Absolutely nothing "odd" about that. Do you see that?

<strong>I am also unsure about what you mean by self-medicating? </strong>

What I meant by "self-medicating" is taking life changing advice from a bunch of amateur jerks like myself instead of spending a few hundred dollars and speaking to trained professionals who have dealt with thousands of people in your exact position.

Capiche?


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