I finally told her (the WS) to pack something so she would be gone tonight. It was a matter of time before she left on her own and I can't take that anymore.

She finally realizes what pain her behaviour has caused me. It seemed like she was starting to come out of the fog, but she (says) she doesn't love me. She has (at least for now) broken off contact with the OM. Since the latest D day (Thanksgiving no less). I let her move back after two days when she agreed to send a letter of NC.

But, she isn't willing to try and rebuild. She's afraid of "making the biggest mistake of her life", but she doesn't want to torture me anymore. She also wants to keep lines of communication open. I think she wants to keep using me; to be able to come back if she wants to.

I told her if she left, that means she doesn't think there is enough there to try and see if we could rebuild. And that means I have to try and get over her as quickly as possible. That I'd probably dig out the hatred for the things she's done. Like I did the first time she left. That was in July for three weeks to move in with the OM. I wouldn't talk to her. It drove her nuts. She wanted to come back. And I let her. Too soon. Before I knew about the MB ideas, unfortunately.

So now what? I guess I just wanted to tell my story.

And then, just now, I got my second call from her today and its only 8:40am. "Just wanted to say I love you. Part of me say your married to this man, are you freaking nuts. Then part of me says, yes your freaking nuts. I'll probably call you 40 times to day just to say hi". But that doesn't change anything.
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Me, BS, her WS
Both late 30's
Married 13, together 18.
Dday 3/1/02. Separated 6/28/02. Back 7/22/02.
Couple more DDays since, last on 11/28.
Separated again, today?

Well, it was a tough weekend. Aren't they all? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Does anybody read these? I haven't got any replies. Oh well, it will feel good just to write how I feel.

As I predicted to W, now that she's moved out, I'm no longer in the mood to wait for A to end. I have no indication from past history that it will. Well, maybe the fact that she wanted to give it a try after 3 weeks last time she moved out...

The thing that surprised me is how bad I feel about not forcing the issue sooner. I mean _way_ back. Now its been 10 months.

Given that her A is all about SF and admiration (at least according to what she's told me - do I believe it from the mouth of someone in the fog?), I wonder if it would be best to just follow my gut and file for D. The fact that the A hasn't ended after all this time just seems to be too bad a sign. Can anyone disagree with me on this?

I still hate the idea of D, but, and here is where I'd like to hear some opinions, when do you recognize that it just isn't going to happen? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Weekends tend to be slow. You are relatively new here. Have you read Surviving an Affair? You may already know this, but here goes, anyway:
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1.) Learn. Read everything in the Basic Concepts section of this site. Then buy and read “Surviving an Affair”, by Willard Harley, (hereinafter referred to as “SAA”) available at the Bookstore. SAA is THE best book on the market for helping one get to the root of “the message of the affair”. It (along with the Basic Concepts section of this site) is also helpful for giving you a vision of what a great marriage should look like. The approach of SAA to this problem is that the best defense against affairs is to have a great marriage. My wife said we had a good marriage, but she still had an affair. She was kidding herself, but it was not until we read SAA and saw what a great marriage should look like that we could clearly identify the problem areas and had the tools necessary to fix them.

The phrase “the message of the affair” is from the book “Torn Asunder”, by Carder (hereinafter referred to as “TA”). I personally think this is the best book on affair recovery we have read. In particular it deals with the two different paths the recovery of the betrayed spouse (BS) and the wayward spouse (WS) need to take, and deals w/ remorse in a way that I prefer to SAA. Read it together, if your spouse is willing. If not, go through it yourself. If you or your spouse has issues with control, you might also want to read “The State of Affairs”, (SOA) by Todd Mulliken, which also treats the remorse issue similarly to TA. SOA also deals with "the vision thing" for marriage, which is neglected in SAA.

2.) See a marriage counselor. This is hard. You need help. These boards are populated by amateurs. MC’s are professionals. There is a difference. They can help deal with issues the books don’t cover, and customize things to your individual situation. That said, there are lots of bad MC’s in the world. Read, and take to heart, How To Find A Good Marriage Counselor. You do not want an MC that is going to teach you how to live with an awful spouse, or how to adjust to divorce. You need one that is committed to helping couples have great marriages, and knows how to do that.

You are on an emotional rollercoaster right now, and there will be times that you will think it would be best to just divorce your spouse and go on with your life. Though there are no guarantees, recovery IS possible, but it takes time and effort. You will hate yourself if you don't do everything you can to make that happen. Give yourself the time you need.

3.) I understand that you may not be a person of faith, but for me, getting my spiritual life in order was crucial. As I said, this is hard. I knew I would need all the help I could get. Repenting of the habitual sins in my life let me stop pushing God away so I could hold on for dear life. I had to humble myself and ask Him what I had done wrong, and what I could do to be the husband He wanted me to be for his child, my wife. This was not about blaming myself. It was about doing what I could to do my part in having a great marriage. My wife could participate or not, but I had to know I had done everything I could do. It also helped me to let go of thinking about what SHE needed to do, since I couldn't control her, anyway.

You might also want to read through: WAT's Quick Start Guidelines for Betrayed Spouses, but keep in mind that these are the writings of amateurs. Get the books, read the articles, and see a GOOD counselor - you need the best help you can get.

You might want to consider moving your thread to the General Questions II board because it has much higher traffic of posters than the plan A/plan B board.

What's the deal with her EN for SF and why can't you provide it for her?

Thanks for your replies.

I have printed out and read most of the material on this website. Finding it gave me a lot of confidence that we could recover. That was several weeks ago. We read much of it together. Unfortunately, she never had the desire to apply it.

I wanted us to see a MC. Since way back. She never would. I did see a psychologist months back for two sessions. Worthless. I actually convinced her to see one (a better one, I think). She went for one session and heard sensical advice - which she didn't want to hear and never went back.

I've been thinking about calling up Dr. Harley or someone. Just not sure if I want to yet.

As far providing for her EN for SF. I'd be more than happy to. I've always been the one who wanted it. Both basically each other's first. We didn't experiment enough I guess. I remember trying to get her to tell me what she wanted but... I think we both share the blame for this one.

But, with the OM, she's discovered something new. SF is now one of here MIEN. That was news to me. I tried to explain how I'd love to "work" on this:). She says (hopefully not true) that I'm just not a "sexual being". In my defense, its hard to light up the fireworks when you're working with a someone who isn't really there.

More later, gotta go.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> SF is now one of here MIEN. That was news to me. I tried to explain how I'd love to "work" on this:). She says (hopefully not true) that I'm just not a "sexual being". </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Fog speak. Not reality. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> In my defense, its hard to light up the fireworks when you're working with a someone who isn't really there. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Precisely. For her, too. But she is unwilling to let you "be there" right now, so you gotta do a Plan A to draw her back. Not easy.