Hi, this is my perspective on why some of us men avoid conflict making it more difficult to resolve...<P>Most of us men would avoid conflict with our spouses and more so when it is in an area that we feel uncomfortable in...and lack knowledge in... confidence in... such as the emotional side, our feelings, our vulnerability...We cant fix it with a hammer and screwdriver...we cant bash it into shape...its nebulous hard to get hold of...it frightens us... We find it difficult to deal with emotions let alone identify what the feelings are and what they mean, where they came from etc...so would avoid any exposure to this frightening concept of revealing ourselves to anyone specially women..... <P>Only when great pain and hurt motivates us to... we are forced to drop our pride long enough to allow ourselves understanding, insight and change, but we will resist and avoid it at all costs if we can....<P>Until that happens we will think feelings will always be something for women to deal with rather than us men....thats why we will say...if she goes and fixes it our marriage will be fine...!!!cos its womens business...!!! <P>Men who have grown up with..."Fight for your country" "Uncle Sam" "Be Brave" "Do for Your Country" and "for God for king and for country".... "stiff upper lip"... "hold your chest out"... "tuck your tummy in"..."be a man"... imbuing tremendous pride within the male ego...to be seen as the protector...not only of the little woman at home and every other little woman at home….. but of his own country as well!!! wow!!!! What an awesome responsibility..!!!! What an honour!!!!...someone to rely on!!...someone brave courageous!!!!!.... me!!! The brave!!!!!! Match that against piffling things such as feelings...yuk!!!girlie stuff!!! thats for sissies!!! girls!!!weaklings!!!airheads!!!!not for real men...!!!!! <P>Not that any of these pride building affirmations are wrong in themselves...this is not a condemnation of such inspiration....just an understanding of some of the reasons why us men are conflict and communication avoiders in the heart to heart department...the emotional exposure dept...the revealing feelings dept....the communication at gut level dept....with women.... <P>You see we would have to communicate with these women... females made from one of our own ribs...whom are an enigma to us...we associate them with things delicate.. things dainty.. things that break easily....they think illogically...they talk irrationally...their behaviour beyond our male comprehension.... <P>Yet they affect us in ways beguiling....we love them so much we cant help ourselves...they make us feel all gaga and weak inside....we cant think straight when they are near....they make us brave tremendously strong "he men" feel weak vulnerable and trembly inside.....these emotions and feelings of great sexual passion fly around inside us in chaotic fashion and because we feel we have no control over them.... we fear these emotions and women greatly...!!!they can reduce us to fumbling insecure frightened angry lost little boys... but we cant reveal that to them !!!! no !! no !!!no !!!not at any cost!...God forbid!.. so we run from them...we wont communicate with them...we will act indifferent to them..and pretend we are not affected by them....and pretend and act as if we dont love them...!!! and do little things to annoy them, to undermine their confidence....make them feel insecure with us...keep them at bay.....hurt them...turn the other cheek... All these games we play because we are afraid to be vulnerable...to be exposed...to admit we feel afraid...weak...unable to think straight when it involves women..after all this lady is the wife... this is the mother and the little girl....the nurturer and the nurtured...the protector and the protected....the lover and the loved....the carer and the cared for....she is all these things to me....I am the husband...the man and the little boy.... the protector and protected....the loved and the lover...the cared for and the carer..... <P>And until we can see that we can have more strength....more power...more love by examining these feelings....exposing them to the light of understanding..we will be stuck in our fear....but things are changing and more an more of us males are coming out into the bright sunlight to be exposed...to drop our fear...to be vulnerable, to grow...and to be more.......thank God not before time... <P>Blessings cossie.... ------------------

WOW! This sounds like something that's happening to me! My husband and I have been separated for 2 weeks. We separated because of many differences that we were never able to work out. I am going to see a psychologost now and she has helped me understand my husband and myself. If thought often times that if I would have had this understanding before, I would have never left, but I left because I wasn't feeling valued by him. My pride and my dignity were constantly being hurt, even though I always made an effort to be a better person. He never made an effort. I thought that by leaving, I would "teach him a lesson". I wanted him to feel my absense. I wanted him to feel lonely and realize what he was losing. I have missed him terribly and it has been a difficult 2 weeks for me. I have cried everyday. We said we would get together tomorrow night. He called me today to confirm, but I heard him so indifferent, so happy! It makes me feel angry to think that he IS actually happier without me! Has he not felt my absense? Your post made me realize that he could indeed be nervous and afraid to show me that he's been suffering too. My question is...How do I deal with that attitude? Do I act indifferent back, even though I don't really feel it? Do I ignore his attitude and tell him I've missed him and that I feel there is still hope for us?? How do I get past that "Male Pride" of his?? Please...I need some suggestions! Thanks!<BR>

Although I understand where you are coming from, for me those aren't the reasons I have a hard time with conflict. In my case, my wife is MUCH more articulate than I am. I have a very hard time even knowing what words to use so that anyone can understand what I am feeling, let alone my wife. (Even to myself I often can't explain what I'm feeling in words, just that I know that something is wrong or that I feel nice or good.)<BR>Not only that, but she is often impatient waiting for me to explain myself, so I tend to shut up even more.<BR>Finally, she uses her articulateness to make me always be the one in the wrong. I usually won't apologize to her and she eventually apologizes (after which I also apologize), but during the conflict, she is NEVER the one wrong (I estimate she is in the wrong about 25% of the time - I'm not an easy person to live with and I know I often irritate her or downright hurt her feelings.)<BR>I expect there are other men who would be willing to express their feelings, but have a hard time knowing what words to use. This relates to your post in that our culture often doesn't teach us the right words to use. Certainly TV is absolutely useless when it comes to real feelings - it is something that needs practice.

Ginnie,<P>Thanks for your response I am sorry I cannot come to these forums as much as I would like....and somtimes dont have a lot of time when I do so please forgive my hastened response..I will reply to your mail as soon as I can...<P>One thing is for sure...that no moving countries or States to please a H or W will make any difference to whatever is the problem in a relationship...the problem simply goes with you...(response to one of your previous posts)<P>In a committed relationship long buried fears of loss can arise within men...they usually date back to some significasnt time in their childhood when they were vunerable to loss of protection/nurturing/love/care/attention and for guys is would be generally with a mother or mother figure.....so when he falls in love<BR>and gets all the nurturing and loving that reminds him of what he experienced as a child the memories long buried arise in his subconscious that trigger the fear of loss of love etc....called fear of intimacy sometimes...this is a very general statement ...we are all individuals so one cannot blanket all with this statement....<P>Your perception of him being happier without you may in part be relief on his part...a so called safety barrier between you two...you he sees as the reason for his discomfit...(not true of course) he wont know why he feels this way....most men dont until they go into therapy and learn about themselves...<P>So how do you handle the situation..? Work on yourself...raise your self esteem...you are not responsible for how he feels or for what he does or feels....he is....!!!and only thinks you are .....dont be sucked in by this view....you are only responsible for what you feel and do...<P>Change your attitude toward yourself and others will change to you also...give to yourself..this is not selfish...only when you can give to yourself can you give to others....be thankful for small and large mercies...and count your blessings...you are ok...<P>How to behave toward him..?...love him without judgement or expectation...be kind but not be a doormat....treat him as you would want to be treated...but dont sell yourself out....when he lashes out...dont lash back....(when the lion has a thorn in his paw he reacts because of his pain not because you try to help).....eventually he must go responsible for his growth.....you cannot do it for him...allow him space to grow...<BR>Be kind to yourself be gentle with you...you are stronger than you think...Blessings...<P>Moi,<P>Thanks for your response,....yes you are absolutely right...most men dont know what to say let alone what they are feeling as my post said........" We find it difficult to deal with emotions let alone identify what the feelings are and what they mean, where they came from etc"..............<BR>and when as in your case the W is more articulate makes it even more difficult to try to communicate at any level... <P>Also where there is love in a relationship there is also competition thru fear of critism, being wrong, guilt, or to be seen as less than the other....and a whole host of other things..its also why siblings fight etc....and what makes it easy to have this competition is that each partner can feel that it is safe to do so because you love each other and you are committed to each other....this gives us humans an arena to grow in, to fight in, to learn together in,to learn about ourselves in, to grow in strength, to become more, to learn about loving caring nurturing and communicating.....how to be parents, role models, survival skills etc etc etc...and when one betrays the other or leaves it is so devastating for the other because the arena is no more, this arena that holds so many memories of growth and struggle together......its special, its sacred and always will be no matter what happens in our lives apart or together...<P>many blessings<P>cossie...<P><P>------------------<BR>To know who you are is to see who I am....

Moi - isn't it strange, my H is much more articulate than I!! Though when things get heated he apparently isn't getting his point across because he keeps telling me I don't understand. As for me, I have a very difficult time expressing what needs to be said and, like with your W, my H gets very frustrated at my stiltedness. <P>Another frustration, though, is the fact that my H is unusually cognizant of the woman's viewpoint, is more in touch with his feminine side than most men. And this makes it easy to forget that he has all those same qualities and fears cossie lists.<BR>

My experience with my husband is very similar and I would love to have opinions on what I should do. We have been married for 13 years, and throughout that time, my husband has maintained a pattern of being very angry and grumpy with me most of the time. When I try to talk to him about why he always angry, he gets even more angry with me. This is with no feedback on his part at all - and I don't harp at him or nag him or anything - he even says that. I just ask him why is he angry. He won't participate in a 2 way conversation with me. He physically turns his back on me...won't look at me even when I ask (or eventually beg). Then he just blows up and says we should just get divorced. Then he becomes very apologetic and wants to just forget it. A few years ago, I told him never to mention divorce to me again, or I would go through with it. Well.... he mentioned it last weekend. Of course, ever since then he's been sweet as can be. Throughout the years I've asked him to go to counseling to help us get to the bottom of why he'd rather be angry with me than be my friend. He absolutely refuses to go. I have basically told him now that we either go to counseling or I will follow through with his suggestion (of divorce). He still refuses and is saying I am giving him an ultimatum. I'm really not - I think I'm giving him a choice. I've tried his way (forget it and just don't ever mention it again) about 6 or 700 times. I do not think it's unfair for me to expect him to try my way once. I have an appointment to see an attorney tomorrow. I really don't want a divorce, I want this cycle to end!!!! I hope someone has a helpful suggestion. All he needs to do at this point is agree to see a counselor!

CindyM,<P>Divorce may not be necessary, and its so expensive.... why not try separation and allow him to live a little while without you near or your support...? it may just make him realise that you are serious about wanting to fix the problem between you...and that he does need some help...and also what he may be losing by continuing his refusal to go to counselling....<P>It does not matter if it is an ultimatum or not....something has to happen and this is your way of handling the situation, not right or wrong....believe in yourself...its your life....and you want to improve it and your relationship...it does take two...you cannot improve the relationship without his help.... <P>Take care be gentle with you...<P>blessings<P>cossie<P>------------------<BR>To know who you are is to see who I am....

Cossie,<BR>Your written words lifted weight off my shoulders. I always hold onto the thought that my H somewhere deep down inside knows that his lack of concern, biting remarks,inability to expose his belly, is merely the result of him not wanting to Look and feel vulnerable. Thanks for the Male perspective on this!<BR>ruby

I believe that this inability of my H to look deep within himself is a big problem with us. He seems to want to run....and run far away. He seems to feel he is needed far away to give of himself, yet he does not want to give himself to his children or me for that matter.<P>In fact he basically went from 'Ilove you" to I've been pretending' in one day!!!!<P><BR>When he first started lashing out, I was taken aback by how much it seemed like he was lashing out at EVERYONE from birth whom he should have lashed out at. (or at least spoke up to). I felt like he viewed me as his mother, and when he moved out I thought to myself "I know what it is like to have achild go to college". <P>He came here the week after he moved out and acted like he was coming home to tell his mom about all of the things he bought for his "dorm" (all the cheap furniture, the gross food in the fridge.)<P>And when he deals with his own children, he seems so immature. Like he himself is an adolescent. <P>I just hope he matures soon enough not to regret losing out on the most important lessons he can learn about life from his young children who look up to him........

Any tips on how to let my "inarticulate husband" get his point across. Example:<BR>Last night he was trying to explain why he had an affair to me. He started by saying, "When a man has had only bread and water for years....."<BR>I freaked out..."Is that what I am? Bread and water? And she's the dessert?"<BR>He got that same frustrated look I often see. But he says such dumb things!!! I know, I know...Give him a chance. It's so hard because I speak in rapid fire and get my point across immediately. I even enjoy debating. He withdraws. I try keeping my mouth shut and sitting on my hands, but I can't do it for long. And then he compares me to bread and water...Oh well. Peace lover.