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#62486 09/12/02 07:12 AM
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My wife is religious (Baptist), and I am not. Well, how can my not attending church be negotiated, when I am deemed "bad" and irresponsiable for not doing so. I have come to realize there are alot of subtle persuations upon her by the other members for my actions. I am always on the prayer list, and they will not rest until I do what they want. To me, it is emotional and phychological abuse. To them, they are doing god's will.
My wife of 15 years had an affair with someone she worked 2 years ago, and d day was the day she delivered the I dont want to married anymore line. She had planned to take him that night(after he needed to be saved too) to a crusade with her parents and our son, and asked a girlfriend to go along so it would appear arkward to our son.
To me, the Baptists are similiarities to the Taliban. Her parents are Baptists also. I have had for my own well-being had to cut off contact with them. Mainly due to her mother ( who told me after the afffair was out in the open, "that she should have left you years ago". And to this day, her mother keeps taking stabs at me with her comments.

I have read the books and lurked on ths board for a year plus. Is joint agreement possible?

#62487 09/12/02 08:17 AM
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LBW,

Please don't judge all religous people by your experiences. First, if scipture is to be used as a justification of your wife's actions, then she should read I Corinthians 7:13-14. Whether you are a believer or not, has absolutely nothing to do with her responsibility to God. Regarding the prayer list, I don't think that having people pray for you is a bad thing whether you believe it helps or not; at least there are people who care about your situation. However, you cannot be forced into anything. I am Baptist and I do believe that God works in peoples lives. I will pray that God will draw you by His Spirit and that you will respond to Him, not to anyone else. By the way, the last part of the verses listed above call for believers to live in peace. This would be a good basis for you to ask your wife for a policy of joint agreement.

Guardian
Psalm 61

#62488 09/12/02 09:29 AM
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Thank you for the advice. I am not sure I care to trade scriptures with her and/or the church or her family as I believe they are single-minded. The church sells "snake oil" in saying how great a marriage would if both people gave their lives for Jesus, and uses that she can be like all the other women that live in bliss because of this (only , we know there are none) I agree if two people agree on everything, then there is no conflict. Maybe I should give her a hard time for going to church. Not many scriptures for the unsaved!

#62489 09/12/02 09:43 AM
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oops, I forgot to admit, I do believe that beer causes one to have have six-pack abs and beautiful flirtatious women in biniki's hanging around and having fun. Didn't mean offend anyone, and realizes that it's just advertizing. Please dont turn this post into YOUR ADVERTISEMENT for religion.
I really need stratigies for dealing with these control minded people.
I am not sure how far i will get by throw verses back at them.

#62490 09/12/02 12:24 PM
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Mormons and Babtists fling scriptures at each other to no avail; both being skilled at the art and in the end people realize that at the root of religion is people, not the other way round, and you cannot change a persons entire character by flinging some ancient words back and forth. I do not believe in mind control. Persuasion, yes, but not control. The CIA tried it (1950's) and gave it up; the techniques work but not for very long, a few months or less in most cases. You have perhaps noticed the many expensive EST style seminars; they rely entirely upon the thrill participants get in the first month or two, to supply them with new recruits. After a year or two, no trace of the "mind control" remains and the money turns out to have not been wisely spent. The "Church of Scientology" is the extreme example of this and it is coming apart at the seams as their controls fail.

You were right the first time; this is one that I do not believe can be negotiated. Somebody is going to have to CHANGE in a big way, and such change -- even if it happens -- is almost never permanent. Ironically, the most permanent changes happen within the context of church; if you take away church, the one successful engine of change is removed.

Babtists should be obeying 2 Corinthians 6:14 "Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers..." It goes on (verse 17) Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate..." -- it follows from this that it is inevitable that either you must become a Baptist, or your wife cease to be a Baptist (or any fundamentalist Christian religion for that matter), or you cease to be yoked together (married).

If you married a Baptist, without you also being a Baptist, you are under no judgement but she IS, she knew better. Now that you are married, her judgement (unhappiness and contention) becomes yours, too, linked by marriage. Can you fix it? Not by yourself. You want her to cease being a Baptist; she wants you to BE a Baptist and it is becoming clear that neither is going to happen. You could perhaps stumble through life in this manner, but if she finds a nice Baptist potential husband, she will excuse divorce on the grounds I have already cited (2 Cor. 6:14) especially if any infidelity exists on your part.

#62491 09/12/02 01:14 PM
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Thanks. I meant they are control minded. We all know religion is a form of government. And isnt the equally yoked thing a way to say they agree on everything (following the bible, which they use to direct or rationalize their actions).

The control is the mind-frame that I need to be in church every Sunday to be persuaded. I realize the church in its subtle persuation tactics creates social approval issues for my wife.. Why isnt he here. And, it makes me a constant isssue to be worked on. Why cant they look inward instead?

Why pressure me? They cant seem to stop. You may say the rhetoric this or that regarding what is intended. But, we all know women compete. Cant you hear it, "my husbands here, where is yours?".
Oh, and which verse was it where Jesus said, "I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."?

The church can divide as well as add.

#62492 09/12/02 01:32 PM
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Well, I have to agree with MG2 in principle. I am not sure about all the yoked stuff (I am an athiest) but I do know that religion is one of those things that people just can't be rational about. I mean... you either subscribe to the dogma or you don't. I suppose it's possible to be 'converted' and see the proverbial light but you sound to me like your mind is pretty well made up. So is hers.

The only compromise I can see working would be if she were willing to have her religion and leave you out of it... but it sounds like that is exactly the problem. I don't see things getting better for you, I'm afraid. She is going to have an almost endless amount of validation from the church that she is doing the 'right thing' in trying to persuade you to 'be saved'. It's up to you whether or not you want to put up with it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I really need stratigies for dealing with these control minded people.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sorry, but I haven't found any that are effective besides leaving. Sadly that seems to be the only way they get the message. Actually, I have no proof that given my absence they 'get the message' but at least I no longer have to deal with it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">They cant seem to stop. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yep, and nothing you can do is likely to help them either. There are too many messages within the environment that they are doing the right thing that your lone voice won't even be heard above the din.

I'm really sorry to post such a negative opinion. I wish I could offer you some hope, I really do.

Good luck to you.

#62493 09/12/02 01:42 PM
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1 Peter 3:1 says, "Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives,"

Apparently, she isn't trying that angle.

#62494 09/14/02 06:27 AM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by looking both ways:
<strong>To me, the Baptists are similiarities to the Taliban.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't think that's a fair comparison; the Taliban probably allow card games & dancing. :-P

I've spent the past 17 years 'unevenly yoked' to a Catholic. I occasionally go to mass if one of our kids is reading or is a gift-bearer or is singing. Outside of that ... Sundays are for NASCAR. Nevertheless, I'm regularly reminded of upcoming registration deadlines for classes if I want to convert.

I'm not Catholic. Never have been, never will be. Mrs. O isn't giving up her faith. And I'm not asking her to.

This isn't something that Mrs. O & I have been able to POJA .. unless agreeing to disagree is a form of POJA.

#62495 09/16/02 08:01 AM
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LBW,

If you don't mind someone asking, why don't you believe? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

#62496 09/16/02 04:23 PM
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First a couple of questions...

1. Did she actively walk in her faith while you were dating?

2. Did you go to church with her during that time?
thereby leading her to believe that you would continue to go to church with her after you were married? giving her a false indication of who you were and what your beliefs were...

In order to understand what it means to be equally yoked..you'd have to look at the old farm ways of using oxen to till the fields..

Each ox carried the same amount of the burden from the yoke..equal partners..both going in the same direction..if they were not both yoked together equally the field would be a mess..and nothing would get done..

A marriage of the spirit is the same thing..which is what I beleive from your post is what your wife is looking for..a spiritual oneness..not just
a physical oneness of the body...

To have that spiritual oneness, both partners need to have the same Spiritual father..by that
I mean..either they both believe or neither one believes..now, spiritually speaking..

God is God..and satan wants to be god..

they are both at odds against each other..vying for your worship..you may not physically bow down and worship satan..but, the way most Christians view this..is by your not choosing to accept God as your savior and spiritual father..meaning being born into the family of God..your spiritual father is satan..so if God and satan are the ultimate enemies..and you can not serve them both..you have to choose..one or the other..

And if you choose not to accept Christ as your Savior..you and your wife are heading in totally opposite directions in your lives and in death.. your desires other than maybe physical are different..she's wanting to serve God..you don't want to serve God..she's wanting to grow closer to God..you don't..so it will cause conflict..

This is a hard issue to POJA, you could encourage her to go to church..without you..encourage her to do the things God is leading her to do..
including praying for you..and ask her to respect your choice to use your own free will..that God has given you..to not go to church..do not ask her not to go..do not ask her to stop praying for you..because that is a part of who she is in Christ..and that would be asking her to deny God..

but also know that as she grows spiritually and draws closer to God she will change..and things you don't like about her now in her Christian walk..you will begin to hate..and despise to the fullest extent..she won't enjoy doing all the things she used to do..things you may enjoy doing now, and things you may have enjoyed doing together before..and the differences between you will grow even more..

Which is also why I believe God allows for divorce in this instance-that if an unbeliever leaves a marriage..then let them leave..it's not that God wants to see this couple divorced..He'd rather they both choose to worship Him together..
but if one chooses not to follow Him, that is that persons choice..and God respects that..

Yes, your wife had an affair..that was wrong on her part..she fell to temptation and sinned..but she apparently took that before God and sought His forgiveness..and turned back to Him..and repented..and her family also forgave her..and reconcilled with her..

contrary to popular belief...being a Christian does not make one perfect..and it does not mean you will not continue to have problems and struggles..it's been my experience..struggles become more intense..and more frequent..because you are going against satan, the ruler of this world, and you become a threat to him..but God uses those same struggles to cause us to have a greater faith and security in Him..helps us to trust Him more..and depend on Him more to help us overcome those trials and struggles..and gives us an internal peace as we go through them, that things will be okay..

I hope this helps in your understanding..

#62497 09/17/02 09:02 AM
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She grew up going to church. I have been off and on. Guess I am a satan worshiper. Lots of assumptions in your reply. Basically I know the analogy of the equally yoked is of being like- minded. Which means there is no conflict. As I see it, it is great for a slave (in Christ)to find agreement. It is the hardest thing anyway, to have someone willfully accept to be a slave. Maybe that is why the bible considers it so hard.
I tend to agree with myschae, believers are not likely to be rational about it. As most become believers before their "heart hardens" or they have developed their spacial reasoning skills. Few come to god after the age of 13 or 14.

#62498 09/17/02 10:17 AM
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if you think I am making assumptions then by all means correct me..

--Basically I know the analogy of the equally yoked is of being like- minded. Which means there is no conflict. --

It doesn't mean there is no conflict..because both people still have their own will..and struggle with giving that up..so there is still conflict..

--It is the hardest thing anyway, to have someone willfully accept to be a slave.--

I guess I don't look at myself as Slave..but as a Friend of Christ..and someone I want to do things for and not required to do things for..

--Few come to god after the age of 13 or 14.--

Actually I know quite a few who have come to Christ as Adults..I myself didn't accept Christ as my Savior until I was 17.

#62499 09/17/02 12:02 PM
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I found God just a few weeks ago (34). Insert S**** A** comment here. I know he wasn't lost, I was. So are you saying that you believed on and off, what made you decide not to believe? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

#62500 09/24/02 01:57 PM
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Harley addresses this issue quite well in Conflicts of Faith

Why do you label being put on a prayer chain as "emotional and psychological abuse"? If there is no God, they are really doing nothing. If there is a God, they are loving you the best way possible. If they are doing something else besides praying that you feel is abusive, deal with that behavior, but please don't call praying for someone "abuse"


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