Lor, I'm sorry that Guard is angry about this thread... I know that what I wrote was angry, but I still feel that way. No, God is not done with him - He's never done with any of us. But what Guard needs to also realize is that what he felt or feels about you being with someone else is only the tiniest, minutest little fraction of what you, and I and so many others have felt throughout our own ordeals. Guard hurt himself - you did not hurt him. If he had been at home being the husband and father he wants to be now, there would never have been any question about the appropriateness of your friendship with the so-called OM, because there would have been no opportunity for it to have developed.<P>I hope, if he reads any more of this thread, he tries to realize just how hurt and angry many of us are on our own behalf AND on yours. Perhaps some of my own anger oozes out in situations like this, I don't know. But we are raw here - and he needs to remember that.<P>I hope I was at least slightly coherent! I've had a lot going on in my life of late, so my stress level is not pretty... and my tolerance is just a tad on the nonexistent side <P><P>------------------<BR>terri<BR>I can see clearly now,<BR>the rain is gone ...

Sorry I disappeared yesterday. Major blizzard, still no travel in the city today, power outages off & on all day. I don't know how many times I rebooted the computer, only to be knocked off or the power to go out.<P>Guard has a 4 wheel drive and arrived at the house shortly before noon yesterday. I had read his long email. So we went over his issues with me. And he and shovelled snow together for about 2 hours, that's a bonding experience, especially with the kids climbing the piles and knocking it back onto the driveway and sidewalk.<P>From my message yesterday and his anger, basically, he doesn't think I've told you how hard he has tried and what a good Plan A he has done. He's been wonderful, better than I did with my first 3 (uh 6-9?) months of Plan A. He's just really frustrated with having had to move into this house. He wanted to move home. I wasn't ready for that then (the double whammy of withdrawal of OM & fear of trusting Guard). Yes, a week later, 2 weeks later, withdrawal getting better, fantasy retreating, and realizing that Guard is and has always been my husband, we've got 20 years together, 17th anniversary creeping up in 2 months. Guard sees me daily, calls, emails, gives me gifts with good thought behind them, brings me lunch...he is doing good.<P>The other thing he thinks is that you guys don't know how rotten my behavior was with OM. I think you do, as I've posted often enough, even if I didn't start threads. True, I didn't post as much as I could have about the OM, I didn't want to encourage anyone to follow this path. Since I broke contact, I haven't posted when I've tried to call OM, because, well, I haven't gotten anything but an answering machine, so I feel I've kept no contact (through no choice of mine ) and I know you all would just say DON'T DO THAT. Sheesh, I know the rules, I can tell myself that. It's been 5 weeks since I had the no-contact talk with the OM, but I have wanted to and tried to contact him. However I haven't dialed any of his numbers for 3 weeks, nor driven by his house, which is only about 8 blocks from mine (I haven't walked by either, lest you think I'm talking technicalities). <P>And, my behavior during these past months is comparable to Guard's when his affair was first starting and I didn't know and he hadn't yet started moving out. Except with me, Guard had moved out again when I started to spend alone time with OM.<P>I could list all the things I never did that Guard did, but as he has said, he can't change what he did. Now I can't change what I did, even though I didn't get into an affair as deeply as Guard did. That's why it still bothers me when she emails after its been over 6 months. I know she has drawn him back in when he thought he had ended it...and vice versa. If I heard from OM right now, I'd like to think I'd tell him I'm reconciling to my marriage, but I also know what he would say. He says divorce for me, after what I've been through, is a "no brainer". Obviously he's never heard of MB or divorce busting. He left his 13 year marriage for no good reason, he didn't love his wife. Nor would he go to any kind of counseling with her. Ugh. Despite the OM's story of no marital infidelity, I have a good idea what that meant (at the very least, woman sighted on the horizon), I just didn't want to think about it. He also says divorce is when the love stops or there's a separation. He simply didn't know what to make of my 6th & then 7th separations, he figured I was as good as divorced. And now, I simply can't give any thought to about what he thinks of me or of my marriage. It doesn't matter...(blocking thoughts, can't go on with this train of thought)<P>But Guard and I did have a really good talk yesterday. I've agreed to go back to counseling, his choice of our usual counselor, pastor, try Steve Harley, Retrovaille, MB retreat/weekend...or my personal favorite...a beach in Mexcico (uh, I think we'd still need the counseling, but we could, reconnect )<P>Reconciling with Guard scares me. With good reason, given how our other reconciliations have gone. We're somewhere way beyond "last chance". I had a thought that we've been so separated and changed that we're almost new people in a new relationship. If only we can drop the crappy baggage...<P>But, as our counselor has said, at least with Guard and I, we know what the other person is carrying as baggage... with a new person, it isn't as if they don't have baggage, you just don't know where/what/why it is and how it will affect you.<P>Not quite ready to slip over to the Recovery Board,<P>

Hi Lor,<P>Sorry this is happening yet again to you. Sometimes life just does not work out. Try and take it one day at a time. <P>Sorry I have not responded sooner but I was so angry that he did this yet again. Please try and not beat yourself up.<P>How are you children doing? I hope they are handling this well.<P>(((((((((((((((lor)))))))))))))

Hey there...<P>Glad to read your latest post on this thread. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Reconciling with Guard scares me. With good reason, given how our other reconciliations have gone. We're somewhere way beyond "last chance". <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Actually, I think you are in a really good place now...I know it doesn't seem like it. But, I think you have both come to a place where you can reconnect, scary as that is. <P>I have deep, deep sympathy for you and all you have been through...I cannot imagine how you've done it. I also have deep sympathy for Guard...I've read his posts and felt he was sincerely trying, and felt it took a lot of strength for him to admit he'd been an idiot after 6-7 times and all he'd put you thru. I hope that counseling gives you both the hope you need to continue on this journey.<P>prayers to you both---<BR>Kathi

TNT--it scares me when things are bad enough for you to say UGHHH. Thank you for the prayers. Holding off on Plan B (as usual )<P>AW--Yesterday the words "for now, we but see through the glass, darkly" (1 Cor 13). I thank you for your prayers and know that your glass is dark as well.<P>Terri--you made perfect sense to me. But then, we have talked fairly frequently. He did point out something from your post, and I don't know how to do that copy thing, but it was:<P>"you had a right to find some friendship"<P>Friendship yes, fall in love with another man, or have an affair, no. Just as Guard was not/would not/is not justified in finding another woman because of what I have done. I know there is a whole time continuum and behavior escalation that you were thinking of and have watched me go through, but justification is justification and, although understandable, not necessarily right. <P>Guard does understand that his actions certainly opened the door for any other man. He left me, came home, left me, etc. I stayed true for at least 18 months and then became worn down by rejection and added to the distance between us myself and let the OM--who was knocking at my door--into my life.<P>But he can't go back and change that either. And I think that's what I wish, probably what a lot of us wish--that the distancing, the affair, the fall-out would simply cease to exist.<P>It is very difficult to lift your head and realize you have devastated the people in the world you truly love. And even more painful to be reminded of it when you are trying to change. <P>You had every right to say what you did, Terri, it comes from your pain. You've handled your behavioral anger with your H very well, but it is, or has been there. Make sure you're dealing with it. {{{{{{Terri}}}}}}}}<P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"Let love be genuine...hold fast to what is good; love one another." Rom 12:9-10

Sheba--Thanks for your thoughts. I think it's pretty obvious there is something wrong in the way Guard & I communicate. Also, thanks for your message to him. I'm going to email it to him, because even though he stopped in yesterday, it made him NOT want to come back.<P>Paha--thanks for your thoughts. The kids don't know anything is different, other than Guard is living somewhere new. Since our first separation in Aug 98, Guard has been out of the house for more than a total of 12 months, so this has become life as it is for them. The 12 year old wants him home. The 14 year old is getting less angry and asked me to tell him that she "really loves him". Very nice.<P>Kathi--I appreciate the prayers. My pastor said something similar that we may now be in the right place. I'm not crazy in that "got to know what he is doing"/stalking mode. And neither is he. But we like to know what the other is doing and do "lightly" check up. It just bites when we check up and find something...<P><BR>

Lor,<P>I know that you both need to "reconcile" in your mind before you can move forward, but it seems that all I am hearing is blame blame blame, justify justify justify, like both of you are keeping score.<P>Given that Guard has had contact with OW in the recent past, and somehow this is being justified - and that you have attempted contact with OM, I think both of you would do well to continue on with the counseling, but - I would not discount my "gut" feelings, and I still suggest you going to plan B with absolutely no contact with OM, and absolutely with no "attempted" contacts, etc....<P>You are absolutely right in that the OM is way off base and not marriage material whatsoever - in that you "end your marriage when the feelings are gone"..... Character and Integrity compared to Guard's is really lacking.<P>Guard has an addiction - and now you understand how strong it can be. But, your Guard is definitely committed to his marriage, loves you like crazy, and is definitely more "marriage material" than this OM ever could be. <P>Guard's main problem is addiction to OW. Regardless of what OW's problem is, he needs help in overcoming. And - as you know, addictions can cause all kinds of quirky behavior - because the addiction is so strong, the addicted person needs to do whatever it takes to provide an environment where the needs or highs from the addiction can be attainable.<P>Addiction is very very slimy - it can cause blame, justification, manipulation, jumping through the hoops, etc. you know what I mean.<P>Think about the heroin addict, and how the addiction to the drug causes them to do things they would never do. It doesn't mean they don't love someone when they do rotten things - it just means they are controlled by the addiction, and the person who is addicted is really having a hard time dealing with the things they do, vs. the things they want to do.<P>I know Guard loves you, wants the marriage to work, but he needs a strong reason to overcome this addiction, and this is why I suggest plan B with no contact with OM as well. <P>But, maybe the counselor can help you both, but realize that you are not dealing with the commitment level of Guard, but the addiction.<P>Strong prayer against strongholds advised.<BR>TNT<BR>

TNT--I've only recently realized how "justified" I felt. It felt "righteous" but it wasn't "right". <P>I don't exactly know when I slid from doing what I knew was right in God's will to doing what felt right. There is a world of difference between the two...and the whole infidelity & divorce forums are full of the end results in following feelings.<P>Blame. Yes. The roots of this mess are deep in Guard & my relationship. We both know we can't change the past. But there are feelings attached to past behavior & reactions that still reverberate through today's interaction. Discovering the difference between forgiveness and handling the past are the key.

Dear Lor<BR> I have followed your post for several months. For some reason it is you I most closely relate to. After Gaurd wrote that letter/post about wanting to be back with you-I cried. It all seemed so sad. I really want a letter like that from my husband. For whatever reason I believe you and Gaurd can be happy together. I can't even imagine what youv'e been through. You are in my thoughts and prayers.<BR> Kathy

Lor:<P>I just wanted to let you know that while I do appreciate all the crap you have both been through, I truly believe that you can work your way through it. I'd give Steve Harley my pick for helping you with working through your marriage, because you both are familiar with these concepts and how they work (and why you're supposed to do the things Harley tells you to do... ).<P>I'd disagree with tnt (my first time ever??) in terms of Plan B. I feel as though you two have just had a little spark on some tinder. You need to feed it carefully. Plan B would be akin to dousing this spark with a big ol' bucket of cold water. I think the two of you should be working on POJA issues, focus on each resoving your own "fears" (which are legit) with the help of the other, and getting to a state where you are ready to move back in (because it can be a lot faster recovery once you're together). Give Steve a try, I think he'd be able to help you achieve this more quickly than anyone else.

Hey Lor, thought I might check in on you. My my my!<P>You are still a tortured soul, but you are getting closer to the old Lor.<P>Going on vacation...take care!<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13