Hey Medic and NB,<P>One thing you two have in common is that both of you think the time spent in your marriages was worthwhile. This seems to be a common thread amongst people who are hopeful about a new relationship someday or at least not bitter about the old one. <P>Me, Nellie, and keridwen all have mentioned that we would not go through this again. What it boils down to is that we don't feel like the time we spent was worthwhile, and that is why we don't see much reason to repeat the experience. At least Nellie and keridwen have something to show for their time... They have kids. Although it would be nice to have kids (and I plan on adopting someday), I'm glad to not be attached to their father.<P>You got me to talking about the good memories, and I did have some good times with my ex. However, I know that I'd have good memories regardless of whether I was married or not. Odds are, I would have spent time with people who would still be around, maybe have my own kids, and I'd be much further along in my career. So, in that sense, my time with him was wasted. It used to make me a whole lot more angry to think about that. Now, it only serves as a lesson not to waste anymore of my time. If I get to feeling mushy or hopeful about someone new, all I have to do is remember that I felt that way before and how stupid that was (for me). I'm reminded that the "fantasy" of love people talk about in infidelity applies to non-married people too. That the fantasy of love exists more or less to trick people into thinking it will last forever, or just long enough to procreate and perhaps pop out a few kids.

Hey Student,<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Hey Medic and NB,<P>One thing you two have in common is that both of you think the time spent in your<BR>marriages was worthwhile. This seems to be a common thread amongst people who are hopeful about a new relationship someday or at least not bitter about the old one. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I agree 100%. However, re: <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>If I get to feeling mushy or hopeful about someone new, all I have to do is remember that I felt that way before and how stupid that was (for me). I'm reminded that the "fantasy" of love people talk about in infidelity applies to non-married people too. That the fantasy of love exists more or less to trick people into thinking it will last forever, or just long enough to procreate and perhaps pop out a few kids. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I also agree. And I'm being honest here. I will never again *fully* trust that a relationship will last <B>forever</B>. I *want* it too... and I will do my damndest to make sure it does... but I won't live in a bubble. I will take each day as it comes, do my best, and pray that it lasts. <P>How's that for honesty?<BR><p>[This message has been edited by new_beginning (edited June 07, 2000).]

HI FRIEND (may I call you "friend"?)!!!!! <P>SMILE, you're on Candid Camera! <P>Yes, I know I'm being stupid, but I'm trying to cheer you up (I'm not really sure if I'm doing it right because it sounds corny, right? ) because I'm worried about you. I hope you feel better soon!<P>Hey, I started another thread! Why don't you go over and check it out? Maybe it'll make you feel better some, you think? <P>------------------<BR> <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/zbucketmouse" TARGET=_blank>http://www.geocities.com/zbucketmouse</A> is where my page is. Oh yeah, THANKS EVERYBODY FOR REPLIES!!!:) Very much appreciated!:)

Bill,<P>Just popping in to update myself on your post<P>To BonnieSept : I know what you mean about people giving you grief on wanting to spend so much time with someone. In a way, I think some of them, could just be jealous. There's nothing better than being that crazy in love with someone like that <P>To TS, I remember the post that Medic was referring to, thats the one I was mentioning on the dating thread where everyone started arguing. I don't follow all your posts, I don't even know that I've seen one that you have started, I just recall you seeming to have a harsher view on things in the past. You sound hurt and sad right now. Its Ok to feel that way, but its good to see that your opening up a little as well. I agree with Medic, that you shouldn't "beat yourself up" over the past. It sounds like your profession may also frighten you in some areas regarding men. I used to work with the engineers at one of my old jobs (no I'm not one) and I can say, I'd NOT want to date one either. Things will get better, and I still believe we will all find happiness again one day. Good luck.<P><BR>Dana<BR>

I am not sure that the amount of time spent together really makes that much difference. My H and I always spent quite a lot of time together - even after the affair began. Even in retrospect, I don't remember him spending less time with me until well into the affair. If anything, except for the days when he was apparently going off to see her, although we woke up early he seemed less motivated than usual to get out of bed on weekend mornings, and we would stay there sometimes for hours since our kids sleep late.

Ah, isn't it just human nature to say "if only" I had done things differently then...<P>No matter what, there is no guarantees. I could get hit by a truck tomorrow. How do I want my life to end up? What risks am I willing to take to reach my goals? I've taken huge risks and suffered countless setbacks and cutdowns (being a woman in a "man's" profession) to get where I am. The kindness of relative strangers has been more instrumental in my success than any of the men in my life. As a matter of fact, the men in my life have been major impediments. I gave them 10 years of my life. Something I won't do again. <P>It is not just the fear of failure that keeps me from pursuing a relationship. I suppose I could use the cast net theory and assume that if I fished my way through enough men, then I would eventually be "successful" in a relationship. However, my thinking has radically changed as a result of my divorce. That is, the goal itself is not worth pursuing. With every path chosen, goes other paths unchosen. <P>Something very curious happens to me when I'm not in a relationship. All of the insecurities and fears that accompany efforts to please someone else go out the window. It is a very nice feeling. The only times I didn't like my body, my looks, or my brains was when I was in a relationship. <p>[This message has been edited by TheStudent (edited June 09, 2000).]

TS,<P>I can't fault your logic...If you can be content more power to ya...I envy that...<P>IF is such a "big" word for only having two letters...LOL<P>Bill<P>------------------<BR>BB<BR>

Hi TS,<P>Been catching up and reading your postings with my usual curiosity. In someways I wish I was your faculty advisor. You seem to think that getting your PhD and having a career in engineering will fulfil you. <BR>Unless you are a far more narrow person than you seem in your postings over the past (almost a year), you will find that you need more. As you advisor, I would advise that to be really "successful" in your chosen field you will need depth in your life. You will need to have companionship and you will need someone to share it with. <P>You don't realize any of these things yet, because you haven't embarked on your career yet.<P>If your career leads to travel, you will eventualy find that staring at a beautful sunset, or mountain, etc alone just doesn't do it. You will find that your triumphs unshared and unremember will not do it. You will find that being a PhD engineer is very rewarding, but it cannot define you. <P>I would advise you about so much. I have advised others of these things and they have found my advice to be correct. To be successful you do ultimately need a life. Even Bill Gates needed a life. <P>TS, I think you are very wise to remove yourself from the dating scene while you are in school. I think that once you have begun your career and have become settled in your life, you will again see that relationships and yes even marriage will be good for you.<P>Your concern that it won't last, is unfounded. All marriages end, some prematurely, but all end as does life. I also think that whether you know it or not, your have learned a great deal about relationships here. I suspect that once you are ready that you will find marriage not to be a chore at all. It will be something you can truly enjoy. After all you did for awhile, until the situation changed and strained it. <P>So TS, do hang on to the celibacy and no dating approach while you are in school. But be open to the fact that your real life will start when you get out. You will be operating in a position of comfort with regard to your goals and ambitions. It will make a hugh difference in your outlook on things. <P>Trust me here, I do know what I am talking about on this one. So have patience, keep learning and posting. Your posts are always very illuminating and fun to discuss. They really are.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

Hi JL!<P>Long time, no talk! I really do like it that you offer me a different perspective. The celibacy/no dating thing felt odd at first, but I like it now. <P>As you can tell, I kinda take pride in doing things differently. <P>I plan on adopting after I graduate. My plans DO include companionship, see? I'll take my kid to see those sunsets, hike up those mountains, and so on. I already am doing that with my neice. I take her for a week every summer. Pretty cool. <P>I didn't use to think marriage was a chore before. That is why I did it twice. I feel differently now. In both of my marriages, I turned into someone I didn't like a whole lot. Even with this guy I dated for a month or two, if you can call it dating. Ick. He recently moved out of the neighborhood and it was a big relief. <P>I know that my world can't revolve just around my job ("It's a profession, not an obsession"). I do about 3-5 hrs of volunteer work every week. I have good friends. As a matter of fact, I'm going sailing with one of them this Sunday. I usually keep my weekends relatively light, no matter what. On the other hand, engineering and my career has been my lifeline all of my life. It (so far) has been the single activity that has assured that I will not be tempted to rely on a man for financial needs. It provides a wonderful sense of accomplishment as well. These are things I've given myself and noone can take away. Even if engineering turned out to be a dud job in the future, my skills and education will be the life raft that carries me to my next career. Ya can't say that for men. Sorry. When they are gone, they are gone.<P>For many years, I felt like these goals were not at odds with a committed relationship. As you've suggested, perhaps it will not be in the future. However, it has been my experience that MOST men consider their wives jobs as second to their own because that is how they are raised. I've "lost" too much time in that respect, and absolutely refuse to put another man's goals over my own. Period. You could argue that I'm missing out on all this "other stuff". The only "other stuff" I'm missing out on is sex. I have love, I have companionship, I have caring, nurturing relationships with my family and friends, who don't request that I sell my soul for them to satisfy their whims. That, in my opinion, is what most men want. That is what I won't give. <P>You seem to be determined to convince me that an intimate relationship with a man is the only way I can truly love or be loved. I'm just as convinced to prove otherwise to you. We do like a debate don't we? <P>Maybe when I'm 60 or so (and my future kid(s) are out of the house), I'll find me some 40 yr old cutie to spice things up. That would be my style <P>Glad to see you are still lurking. Hope all is well with you!<P><p>[This message has been edited by TheStudent (edited June 11, 2000).]