<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TheStudent:<BR><B>My grandparents only knew each other 6 weeks when they got married. They were married till death, about 50-60 yrs. My parents knew each other 6 months, my mom got pregnant with me, and they got married. Been together 36 years. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I think it has more to do with the people's commitment to marriage. Just because someone is married forever doesn't mean it was a good marriage or that all or even most of the years were happy. Hopefully if they are that committed, they will be equally committed to making each other happy. <P>But look at Orientals or Arabs. They often are meeting their brides for the first time at the wedding, and their incidences of divorce are extremely low. You might say, "Well, who wants a marriage like that?" But, a lot of them would say their marriages are very satisfying. So, I say it has to do with the commitment level of the people involved.<P>By the way so many of you are working at your relationships and hanging in there, I'd say many of you have a chance to make it there too. (okay, well maybe not the ones looking for dates! ha!)

RWD: I can't believe you found a woman who loves sports. I didn't think they existed. Just kidding. I think that is great. Now, I just have to find a man who doesn't. Do they exist? Actually, I do like a lot of sports and I'm pretty athletic. I play tennis, like to run (I'm training now for the Peachtree Road race although I had a little setback in training due to a waverunner incident) and I like to watch the Gators play football and basketball as of late. But enough said on that topic except Go Gators!<P>Murphy: Why do you need to go to Match.com when you are getting dates here? Just kidding. I can't believe your other post. You beat me to over 200 replies in just a day or two. Not fair. I don't know anything about internet dating and don't plan to go that route. Right now, I am getting all the dates I need from my divorce support group. Isn't that healthy! Actually, I have only seen one person from my group and the positive aspect about seeing him is we are both in the same place right now and want to take it slow. <P>Keridywn: Hang in there. I must admit you had me laughing with your reference to the "twinkie".<P>Cinderella: I am with you about kids. I think it is important that they not meet anyone we are dating unless it is getting very serious. I plan on only dating when I do not have the kids. One positive thing about that, it forces you to take it slow because you can't see each other all the time. <P>Glad some of the lurkers are speaking up too. I hope everybody is getting some answers here. Maybe this should be made a notable thread so we can refer back to this again. Who knows how to do that? I thought of making a copy of this but probably won't have enough paper. <P>I guess one of the things I am still questioning (and the Student keeps me on my toes), is how do I know when I meet someone new if they are sincere or just have the right lines, etc. I guess you just have to take a chance and find what feels right and pray and hope for the best and not to expect too much.<P>Talk to you all later.<P>711

Hey 711,<P>Hmm. How do you know a guy is not feeding you a line? Well, for me, I tell them I'm celibate, and if they are around in 6 months (which tends to weed out the ones who don't think I'm serious about it), then I know they like me for my personality. That is probably a bit extreme for most people though. <P>If you are having sex before marriage or a serious commitment, and most people do, I can't imagine you would ever know for sure if they are feeding you a line. It takes time for a relationship and trust to develop. If you date a guy a few times, and he's telling you he's in love after the third date, then big humongous red-lights should be flashing. I don't know what your goals in a relationship are. There are plenty of gals who don't have a problem having less-than-committed sex to pass the time, or even as a prelude to getting to know someone better. <P>Nothing wrong with that as long as both people are up front. Just be honest with yourself, what you want, what you are willing to risk and stick to it.

The Student - Thanks for those words of wisdom. Sure you are not The Teacher?<P>

Who me? Naaa. I just spend way too much time listening to guy talk in the office. Makes a girl a little jaded.<P>I dated a guy a couple of months after my divorce. This was before I had made my commitment to celibacy. Still I told him I could not have sex without commitment. He told me he loved me in a "two-week" kinda way. I suppose two weeks must have felt like a big commitment for him HA, HA. I later found out that he is like, 30 yrs old, and the longest relationship he had was 1 yr. Now why is that not surprising? Ya see what I mean? He hung on awhile after I broke up with him, still, it was a good lesson for me. I'm sure he truly was infatuated, and he actually believed the lines he was feeding me "at the time", but that is not enough to get me to roll over. Not all guys feed a woman a line just to get her into bed. Alot are confused, just like we are, about what they want in a partner. However, unlike me, most don't have a problem getting "some" while they are making up their mind. If you don't either, then go for it. *I* just can't live that way anymore. If it has been 18 years for you, then you grew up, like me in the 70's before all this nasty stuff was out there. The worst I had to worry about in my swingin' singles days was getting pregnant.<P>My girlfriend said she couldn't imagine being 35 and telling a guy she couldn't have sex. I said "I can't imagine being 35, and telling my family I have AIDs, or herpes, or hepatitus, or..."<p>[This message has been edited by TheStudent (edited June 07, 2000).]

The Student: You are so right about the sex thing. You can't just sleep with anyone because you want to. I have been told you should go have a battery of tests and see the results before you even think about having sex. Geesh. I thought I just needed some birth control. Just kidding. I don't plan to jump in the sack with anyone anytime soon. It goes against my christian upbringing and is way too risky these days. I just want to date some and see what happens. I have told the man I am interested in that sex is not an option so if that's on his mind he should just forget it. He seemed ok with it but probably because he thinks he can talk me into it. We shall see.<P>Take care.<P>

711,<P>Hey girl, did u go on that date yet?? <P>I was not on MB for a few days and I come back to your post still going and Mitzi/Murphy with 242!! <P>I just want to say, its interesting to see how this thread is progressing as it gets longer and longer. We are learning more about each other and on a topic that has been usually one to start fights on the general questions board. <P>Some people may not feel comfortable being honest for fear of being flamed about certain issues. Hopefully, anyone reading this post can see that this topic, didn't turn out to be such a sore subject after all. There are a lot of good perspectives from both ends of the decision.<P>I just want to comment on the online "dating" services and send a word of caution out. One of my friends met someone online over a year ago. They hit it off well in the beginning. She fell in love with him. They were to be married. She was going to relocate. I'm keeping this simple in case she signs on. To make a long story short, he was married with SEVERAL kids from SEVERAL women in the same situation. <P>I also spend WAY TOO MUCH time in chat rooms and have some "online friends" that are women who have met up with some strangers from the net, and I know of 3 cases where it was a very dangerous situation. I also heard that 5 women were found dead this past week from an internet "stalker".<P>Anyone new to the web or chatrooms especially, needs to be cautious that more often then not, people are NOT honest, and no offense to the gentlemen reading the post, there are A LOT of men, married, looking for their "way out". <P>Just be very careful with what you say, and how much of your real info you give out and personally, I'd recommend a dating service locally, that you know is legitamate. I do know someone who is marrying someone that she met this way.<P>Hate to put a down side to this subject, but I just wanted to say I know way too many "bad stories" about the internet. Its easy, when we're down and vulnerable not to see someone for who they really are and also our intuition and senses aren't as powerful as they could be. <P>On a happier note, I'd just like to say that I will be posting a new thread myself shortly, and um.....I'D LIKE TO GET 100 REPLIES TOO <P>Have a great day to all, Dana<BR>

I'm glad you all agree with me about the children and my dates. It's nice to no I'm not off track.<P>As for sex, well, I've lived without it for 5 years and could for longer but I'd like to not have to. I think it was fun - but I can bearly remember it. <P>As for right now, I've leveled with the man I've seen a few times. I was date raped. I was young, we had been playing with fire, and he took advantage of the situation. It was the first time I had ever had sex. I thought I was in love with him and 1-1/2 years later I married him. Like I said, I was young and didn't know better. He became sexually anorexic a few years later and I didn't see the event for what it was until going through the divorce.<P>A couple of years ago, a friend told me that her women's group heard how long it had been since she had sex. When they heard, they announced that after 5 years they thought you regained your virginity.<P>My current stance is that my choice on losing my virginity had been taken away from me earlier. I know I have two children but I really feel emotionally that it's been given back to me. It is precious to me right now and I don't intend to squander it. I intend to save it, to treasure it, and for it to be a carefully considered matter before I have sex again. The man I've seen a few times has heard of, for lack of a better term, "spiritual virginity" and seems to consider this an extremely worth ideal.<P>It sounds good but there is a battle waging between my hormones and my heart.

Cinderella,<BR>I'm very sorry to hear how you lost your virginity. You seem to have coped with it very well. Even though I can't say my first experience was against my will, I certainly am not too proud about it. Count me in as one of the "spiritual virgins", or as I call them "born-again virgins". <P>711,<BR>I think you know that a guy is taking you seriously about your morals if he is just as reluctant to have sex w/o commitment. Tough for guys because they have been raised to get it whenever they can. Sorry guys, but I think you know I'm right.<P>As they get older, I think they (men) become more cautious too. For alot of reasons. The body ain't so buff, "willy" ain't as willing as it was when they were 20, and experience with sex at an emotional level would make a nice guy more reluctant to just jump in the sack with anyone.

Lonely Mom:<BR>I don't know if I would call it an actual date but we did meet for a drink one night on my way home from work. It was pretty crazy. I was late because I came directly from a meeting and I only had about 45 minutes because I had to be home by 10:00 because my x was watching the kids at my house. I felt like I was a kid again in highschool and had a curfew. But, we had a nice time. We met in our support group and also attended a Fresh Start Seminar at the same time. Right now, we spend a lot of time talking about each others situations and what we have learned through the support group and seminar. Just trying to take it slow, but I am still concerned about my ability to continue going at a slow pace.<P>Cinderella: You have brought up an interesting topic that a friend and I have discussed many times. I agree with what you and The Student said regarding this matter.<P>The Student: I see you are here again with good sound advice. Has an angel sent you down to protect me from doing something stupid? You keep me balanced. I tend to want to follow my heart and forget what my head is telling me. You bring my back to the ground and keep me sensible. Thanks for being here. I think if I balance out the advice I get from Dana and you, I will be just fine.<P>Talk to you all later. I have really enjoyed these conversations.

OK, everybody! I feel the need to repeat my earlier question.<P>Where are the decent men??<P>They're not at my office, my children's schools, my school, or where I've volunteered. All the usual places have yielded no one and none of my friends have attempted to introduce me to any of their single friends.<P>Met one through a personal ad which I placed and there's so much "chemistry" that it scares me. (In a most exciting way) <BR>The other one and I have emailed several times, talked on the phone, with an in-face meeting set up in a very public place.<P>I know that dating does not equal marriage but I find this slightly unnerving. Am I alone when it comes to feeling that way? Does anyone have any other ideas on where to meet quality men (or for the other folks-women) besides changing or churches?. <BR><p>[This message has been edited by cinderella (edited June 09, 2000).]

OK, everybody! I feel the need to repeat my earlier question.<P>Where are the decent men??<P>They're not at my office, my children's schools, my school, or where I've volunteered. All the usual places have yielded no one and none of my friends have attempted to introduce me to any of their single friends.<P>Met one through a personal ad which I placed and there's so much "chemistry" that it scares me. (In a most exciting way) <BR>The other one and I have emailed several times, talked on the phone, with an in-face meeting set up in a very public place.<P>I know that dating does not equal marriage but I find this slightly unnerving. Am I alone when it comes to feeling that way? Does anyone have any other ideas on where to meet quality men (or for the other folks-women) besides changing or churches?. <BR>The other one

711,<BR>Hi. Ya know, I don't think we're too wierd. A friend of mine dated a guy for two years without sex (so she says ), and he proposed marriage. She is 47! <P>I have to admit, there were a couple of times when I was tempted to walk on down to one of my guy-friend's house, tear off all my clothes, and jump his bones. One thing that kept me from doing that was that I was sure he would turn me down. Not cause I'm dog-faced, but because he knows how important this issue is to me, and he would not participate in my temporary moment of weakness. No, we're not dating. He is totally wrong for me. Not having sex with him allowed me to keep him as my friend and discover that without having to go through that whole annoying battery of tests. <P>There are times when I'm torn. If I ever did get married again, I'd want someone with a pretty decent sexual appetite. This celibacy thing is really hard for me. I wouldn't want to be married to someone who didn't have sex before marriage because they didn't like it! What a nightmare. Save myself, then never get any! For someone who doesn't like sex, celibacy would be a breeze. Not me. I know what you mean about being torn between your hormones and your heart. Oh well. AquaPal will be my date again this weekend

I'm just not at all happy about those stupid hormones.<P>If they don't have you out of commission - think about it - then they have you out of your mind half the time if you're around someone you find attractive. And just think, we're not adolescents anymore. We're supposed to know how to deal with this.<P>What scares me is that I survived the date rape, survived marriage and divorce with that guy, and now I'm pretty happy as an independent adult. However, I'm to the point where I would be interested in sharing my life with another man. But how do you know if they deserve you? <P>I've been seeing one whose bones I would love to jump but...... I stuggle with the spiritual, emotional, and physical health issues surrounding that scenario.

Cinderella,<BR> What? You didn't like my earlier suggestions?You try to help people..... <BR> After my stbx split,I get out and take my dog different places.Public parks,dog parks,walking trails,the local beaches,etc.I find that I meet a lot of people,including women,just to talk to.Plus it's good exercise.Something you might try,depending on your area.You just might meet someone nice,you never know.<BR> <BR> --Murph

Cinderella:<P>It sounds like you and I are struggling with the same issues right now. I have my bible and divorce recovery books at my bedside saying stay away from a relationship, don't have sex, etc. etc. etc.<P>But then I go to the movies and he holds my hand and I just go nuts. I want to just throw the bible out the window and have some fun!!!<P>Then I read the posts here, talk to friends, counselors, read what The Student has to say, and then start all over again with what to do.<P>Help!!!! Will this ever end? The thought of having to wait to be married again (which I'm not sure I will do again because of the trust issue) in order to have sex again, is killing me.<P>I wasn't expecting to have these feelings. I had no problem with the 1 year no dating rule until I met this guy. Now, I just don't care anymore. I now can see (in a very sick way) why my x ran off with another women. I have these feelings I haven't had in soooo long and I find it very hard to listen to reason. Everyone tells me that I will be making a mistake, but I just don't care. Of course, I am now divorced so I wouldn't be cheating but I would be going against my christian beliefs at this time. I do feel that if I can wait till marriage, God will bless me in this area but I don't know if I can wait that long. It has been 18 years since I felt this way. Please don't be too hard on me with your replys. I really am trying to do the right thing. I'm just telling you how much of a struggle this is for me at this moment. <p>[This message has been edited by 711 (edited August 17, 2000).]

711 & Cinderella.<BR>I am in the same boat too.<P>This lady I just met is real aware of the kid situation and us dating. She told me she is very afraid to call and leave a message on the family answering machine. She has called me a couple times on my cell phone and called from her summer job, but didn't leave a message. The weird part is my son knows her and likes her as a teacher(she is my s's teacher's best friend)and I while I did tell him went out, I'm not sure how he or his sister would react if I were to make a issue of it. His face lit up when I told him who it was, and he said cool. Bad part is both he and his sister asked me if she was married.<P>So I'm not sure how to handle it yet. Just keep it low key. I guess I'll have to borrow my x's secret code or what she had when she was seeing om behind my back !

711,<P>You sound very torn. Personally I would not jump into a sexual relationship very fast. I speak from experience. I rushed it with my current boyfriend, because I was so emotionally hurt by my ex that I had to prove that I wasn't broken in that arena. He would have gladly waited as long as I needed, but I fell into the same boat you are in. I now see that when you start a sexual relationship without knowing a person long enough it doesn't create intimacy it creates a quick fix. It takes talking and opening up and communication to have an intimate relationship. If you can communicate verbally first then the stuff between the sheets is going to be a given. I have had to backtrack with my current beau and sometimes I think it would have been better to wait. I would have more respect for myself and my feelings. I hope I have helped.<P>Ger

I think it is an individual thing for all. <P>After two years of trying to save my marriage, once I had lost all love for my x, I divorced. I knew that a relationship was important to me, but I had some growing to do. I did a lot of that during the affair and separation. I still have some to do. <P>But I did start dating a family friend. He has been great for me. I was comfortable with him from the start, because we had known each other for years. I wanted a sexual experience. So, we talked about it and we did. I have never regretted it. It was wonderful and I felt alive in a way I had not in a long time. 4 months later we are still dating. Exclusively. And having sex. Have we made any commitments yet?? No, and I am not ready yet. But I was ready for a monogamous relationship, and sex. <BR>Ok guys, I hav my armour on...flame me!!!<P>------------------<BR>Susan

Susan,<P>No flames from me! Actually, I'm jealous! You mean there are actually people who are having sex??? LOL LOL<P>Good for you!! <BR>Mitzi