A pondering question for all the great minds here...<P>I was having lunch today with a large group (mixed company) of friends. The subject at hand was "committment". One of the gentlemen said that if two people are "in love" then why do you have to get married? He felt the marriage license meant that "it" made things financially & legally binding but that he didn't feel he needed a piece of paper to be married or committed to the woman he loves. It sparked a great debate between the men and the women with most, but not all of the men agreeing with him.<P>I was hoping to get some other viewpoints from everyone else on the question -- IS BEING MARRIED "LEGALLY" REALLY IMPORTANT AND WHY? Maybe I'm looking to find out exactly why people feel they need to be married.<P>Things that make you go hummmmm....<P>TL

Hey TL,<P>I believe it's waaaaaaaaaaay more than a piece of paper... <P>It matters... it shows committment, a desire to give all of yourself to another person...it is a state of mind, and also, a legally binding document. <P>I loved being married. I loved taking my stbx's name, having his children, and waking up beside him... I loved everything about him for a long, long time. I love marriage. <P>I hope, for my sake and his, that we take a little more care the next time we give ourselves in marriage to someone... and yes, I think there will be a next time!<P>

TL,<P>Hello from one great mind to the next <P>I believe it is DEFINETLY more than a piece of paper. Sure you don't "need" it to prove love, but don't most people want to be married? <P>For me, the second it became less, was when I discovered the affair, was served divorce papers and had all my trust and innocence shattered. Lawyers, judges, court battles, at that point, the marriage was over and it then became nothing to me. <P>Just as we DON"T need a piece of paper to prove our love, I DON'T need that piece of paper to prove its over.<P>That relationship is over. It hurts, I am in pain, but I go on. But for the most part, it never was a piece of paper, while there was love.<P>Hope that answers for my part anyway,<BR>Dana<BR>

<P>I didn't want to take my second H's name. He was insistent on it, so I went ahead. I felt like I lost my identity. This is probably part of the reason our marriage did not last. Not the name change, but the general feeling of having my identity sucked away. At first it was ok, like we were part of a team. After awhile, it seemed like we weren't a team at all. That I was just this thing that was there to prop up his goals and get little or nothing in return. I guess the priviledge of being married to him was supposed to be enough. hardly.<P><BR>I don't believe commitment has anything to do with marriage, or else, there would never be any divorces. However, there does need to be some "statement" of commitment, whether or not it is done legally or through a church.<P>Unlike one of the gentlemen in your group, though, "love" has absolutely nothing to do with commitment. THAT is probably the reason why there are so many divorces. People get married for "love" and don't have a clue about the commitment required.<P>Unlike NB (hey girl), I won't be getting married again. Both times I feel like I was sucked dry.

Committment is a strange thing. I had to laugh reading TL's post as I was reminded of my uncle's second marriage. The words "as long as love shall last" were actually substitued for the more traditional "till death do us part" language in their vows. Seems to speak volumes to "commitment."<P>I believe that the word commitment can carry two very divergent meanings. On one hand, a commitment can merely be an obligation, a duty. While at times in life it is necessary to continue solely on the basis of duty, I think this is undoubtably a poor basis for sustaining and growing a relationship. A sense of obligation can nurture only a very lopsided relationship and I don't think can support anything for an indefinate time. While my wife is currently working to leave our relationship by way of divorce, certainly it would be worse for her to stay out of a sense of duty - to stay only because she believed that she should or that she had to to fulfill an obligation.<P>On the other hand, the committment of a marriage can, and in my opinion should, denote a fervent desire - it should convey a personal willingness to subjugate one's own needs to the betterment of another. Perhaps this could be with poor motivation as pursuing what is ultimately the greater good of the pair. Hopefully it is from more pristing motives - an unfettered thirst to pursue what is best for another. I firmly believe that a truly meaningful relationship is impossible if this type of commitment is not, at least to some degree, reciprocal between the parties to the relationship. I want my wife to decide to stay because she seeks what is best for me and our family and as I do the same.<P>Without diverging into theological issues, I guess my answer to TL's question of "why, if two people are 'in love', do you have to get married" would be to reverse and slightly modify it. "Why, if you are truly committed (in the right sense and for the right motives) to one another, would you not get married?" The legal marriage is merely an outward sign of the commitment made that carries with it some practical advantages (exluding the tax marriage penalty).<P>If divergence to theological interpretations is pursued, the issue seems to become that the fundamental social structure ordained by God (man and woman, joined for eternity, becoming one flesh, etc.) is merely recognized by our government in the legal institution of marriage. At that point, the marriage covenant is before God Almighty and the legalities of the union are merely an outward representation of that covenant.<P>Either way, the question seems to be not "why?", but rather "why not?"<P>Probablyl tired ramblings too late at night. Hope this makes some sort of sense in the morning.<P>

Hi TL -<P>Great question!!!<P>My marriage was never about "a piece of paper" or "Legal" or "Financial" in my mind........not until this divorce nonsense and lawyers, courts, etc.<P>I saw/see marriage as a union of two people before God.......<P>The legal system NEVER had any role in my thoughts.<P>I loved him.....he loved me....we wanted to become "one" as we believed God intended. We even wrote our own wedding invitations with that as the intent...<P>The whole wedding preparations were carried out as a ceremony and party between us and God!!! <P>Somewhere along the way in this marriage, God went out of H's head and heart.....and the court system took His place. <P>I am still trying to figure out how and when that happened.....all I know is that any judge/lawyer, etc. can declare us "divorced" and it doesn't mean squat to me......Only God can break what He united. <P>Somehow I don't think that God is working through the US legal system!!!<P>Anyway, that's the way I think of it. I am not an overly religious person or anything, but marriage was truly a sacrament having NOTHING to do with legalities......<P>Big Hugs,<P>Sheba

Thanks to all of you! I agree that I've always thought marriage was much more than a piece of paper!! But I was still amazed at the various opinions on this subject!

TL,<P>A marriage may make the relationship “legal”, but it is also to make a stand for something you believe in. You get up in front of friends, family & God to make a commitment to each other.<P>and what the others have said also.<P>Sheba, I read your line, “I loved him.....he loved me“ and I couldn’t help but think...<P>I loved him, he loved me,<BR>We’re supposed to be a family.<BR>With a great big hug & a kiss from me to him...<P>Barney sux, but my niece really likes him.<P>ROTFL!<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>

Texan,<P>I like your reply.<P>I just want to clarify my answer. I don't view my "now over" marriage as a piece of paper. I just don't need the "piece of paper" to tell me its over. Its what is in my heart that is how I feel.<P>I think the people who say "marriage is just a piece of paper" are sometimes the ones who fear it and don't want to take that level of commitment.<P>I like Texan's thought, if you are in love, why would you NOT want to be married?? Not everyone may have understood that whole reply, but I liked it.<P>Prayers and hugs to all, Dana<BR>

Marriage to me is a contract between two people. It is a binding contract (to God and State) that requires two people to work hard to assure there is commitment, understanding, love, kindness, patience, and fidelity between two people.<P>If there are problems, <B>BOTH</B> need to honor their half of the contract and work together to make the marriage work. Those who bail or abandon their partners have weak souls. They can never be trusted. They will always run away from their problems or to a significant other. <P>Andrew

This may not be from a great mind but...I have often used a soccer or football field as an analagy. The "piece of paper" is the boundaries around the fields which is "marriage". We were to work within those boundaries, and this sounds corny even to me, work toward the goals, but together on the same team. If we cannot play within the boundaries, we have no right being in the game.<P> Most of us guys would like to have our cake and eat it too but some of us like to have the rules. Sure we fanatsize or complain. In reality we would love to hear that snoring next to us at night again knowing she has a commitment to us as well.<P>I told you it was not necessarily "great".<P>RRunRR<BR>