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#668232 08/30/00 04:14 PM
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My daughter is 12 yrs old.. my ex is with an OW that is married.. I have asked my daughter if her dad is making her lie to me, and has this hussy around her.. she swore she isn`t around them.. <P>well today I find some photo`s of perdue!! (the OW) with my ex, at a gathering they went to.. <P>JUST HAPPEN TO BE IN THERE.. WONDER WHO`S IDEA THIS WAS??????? PERDUES!!!!<P>WELL THATS IT.. I HAVE KEPT MY MOUTH SHUT TO THIS HUSSY`S h, AND IT IS TIME SHE HAS SOME ANGUISH IN HER LIFE!!!! <P>THIS IS MY KID.. SHE HAS GROWN KIDS, SO WHAT DOES SHE CARE... THIS IS OUTRAGIOUS.. AND I WILL NOT STAND FOR IT A MINUTE LONGER.. <P><BR>I am even more angry that my daughter lied to me all this time.. I am so dissappointed that she excepts this hussy.. I am so hurt that she didn`t have the nerve to say a thing to my ex that she is not happy about this or is not comfortable with this.. she is old enough to have stood up for me.. and it is heart breaking that this is now her way of life.. lieing to me like this.. this this is what my ex is showing her.. what a role model huh!!! thinks he is such a nice man.. <P>I can`t even write what I think he is.. <P>sorry.. I just had to vent...!!!!!!<P>I am going to this hussy`s house tonight.. I have had it.. I put up with this crap for two yrs now.. never once opening my mouth, never once causeing him any pain.. well it is my turn.. tough nuggies!!!!<P>this is war...my kid is at a very vulnerable age.. and I have had enough....<P>I`m out of here.. <P>AV

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well even though I have no responces, I did it... <P>I went and talked to the OW`s H.. and he had known, and told me they were sep for a time, but she is back with him because she needs some eye operation.. so now he learned, she is still seeing my ex.. and was a bit shocked that it was just this past week end that they got together, with my daughter, for a family gathering.. I told him.. I didn`t care about the two of them.. (my ex, and OW) but when it involves my kid, thats when I have say and can step in.. I am not going to be controled by a cheating lieing two faced low life, any more...<P>I don`t care how mad he gets, at this point. I have done nothing to deserve any of this, and it is now my turn to take a stand.. <P>I also now had to have my locks changed incase he comes over angry.. (my daughter had told me just tonight, her dad has the key, (I had changed) because she is always loosing it.. well I told daughter, now she doesn`t get a key, and dad will have to visit around my schedual.. no other way to trust either of them.. he have to deal with it.. to dame bad...<P><BR>I could tell the guy was perterbed, (he had his arms crossed while grabbing his chin.. and playing with his chin.. as if holding back his anger, knowing I have been to hell and back all due to his wife...) and he said.. I will take care of it.. but I can only ask her not to be around your kid.. I can`t stop them if they are sneaking.. <P>well guess what.. my lawyer said the same thing.. he can`t get an order of protection against this hussy, because she is not harming my kid in any way.. I said oh really!!! how about screwing with her head.. isn`t that called mental abuse!!.. he said NO!! do you beleive this... my ex can do as he please, with no consequences.. and I get to sit back and hear about it, and can do nothing about this immoral act.. <P>I am beyond reach.. I have had it with this crapola.. this is truely an outrage.. and we all have such a wonderful society to thank for all of this.. <P><BR>well thanks for listening, if you got this far.. I figured I`d let you all know what happened.. <P>what happens now.. who knows...!! thank god this is almsot over any way.. the papers are almost done to be signed sealed and ddelivered.. <P>AV<P>

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I agree with you 100%. I don't know why but here in Michigan I was allowed to specify that our boys were not to be around any "unmarried members of the opposite sex", and he agreed to it like it wasn't a problem so I guess I was lucky. I think he agreed because I specifically told him that I'm glad I found out now while I'm still young enough to get married again. (That really got to him, the fact that I may marry again and someone else will be living with us and helping me raise my boys). Of course, after the divorce, he could do what he wants and I see him marrying the broad within days of our divorce. I don't look forward to it.<P>You are right, our no-fault society stinks. It really does. Don't be so mad at your daughter, she's still a young numb-skull and she's been manipulated by him too. Just try to be the best you can, and get some help if you need it. I'm so sorry for you both. I've said it before, it would have been so much easier to deal with his loss had it been a heart attack or something rather than the betrayal and divorce.<P>When my H was lying about his OW (who just divorced her H because of mine), I decided to call OW's ex-H - but I had figured he already knew since they had gotten divorced. He was so mad and had no clue. On top of that they all worked at the same company in the same department! After I told him tho, my H became very angry that I called him saying that he had ended it and it was over and I just had to stir up the pot again. Really made me feel guilty. Reality was that it was NEVER over and I put consequences to her when he was trying his darndest to protect her. Now I guess her mother and family isn't speaking to her and my H had to get another job and his family won't have anything to do with him - but they are still together.<P>Just try to think logically and if you need to go off on someone, do it on him. Talk rationally to your daughter about how you feel and how her lying to you really hurt, let her know that you would never hurt her that way and the respect for eachother feelings should be mutual. It can be done heart to heart. I feel for you. What a [censored].<P>God bless.<P><P>------------------<BR><BR>Kathy

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Thanks Kathy,<P>I knew some one would come through for me here.. <P>I just had the locks changed, for the second time since he left.. he may have had good intentions, as to hold an extra key, incase my daughter lost another one.. but there is no way I want him having access to my home, any more.. not after this episode..<P>I have yet to hear anything from him, since I went over there.. but perhaps perdue, (the OW) hasn`t had the chance to call him yet.. she may be being closly watched now by her H for the night!! he he!!! at least I hope so..<P>tomorrow!!!! who knows.. thats another day and may be another story..<P>I do feel good about going there, reguardless of any one who disagree`s with me.. I have wanted to do this since the day he left.. and it felt like I got my revenge, and a weight is lifted off my shoulders.. <P>I do feel like this helped with some closure to my situation.. not having the chance to ever talk to this man, that I once knew, for 16 yrs,(ever so long ago..) because he has never talked to me since he left.. he is a coward, and if we ever did talk, it was all on my request and he only did it to pacify me, with no intent to really listen.. he just put up his wall and allowed me to vent away, (in the beginning).. <P>I sat there, all those times with a cold fish, and I knew I was waisting my time.. so I left him alone.. never once causing him any hurt or pain, with being vindictive, in any way, as he has now inflicted on me, over and over again.. <P>from this day on, I know I did what I felt I had to do, for my daughter, and my self of course.. but it *IS* morally wrong to involve her in any of his deviousness, or put her in the middle... <P>he can`t hold a candle to me when it comes to humanity.. not any more.. <P>I thank you for responding to my post.. I did need to vent something feirce.. but I do feel better now.. <P>I do feel for you and every one else, who come here still having some sort of hope and hearing these rediculous episodes, that no one has control over.. it is just so pathetic. and the courts, are even more pathetic.. not being able to do anything about this, for the kids sake.. very sad...<P>AV<BR>

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AV,<P>Oh gosh....how horrible. I agree, where are these poeples morals and values. They make me want to puke. It never ends......and to think that these people where once our best friends that we told all our fears, dreams and secrets to. We share so much and then bam!<P>Me, I am so happy I am divorced. I am not dating and have no intentions to for a very long time. I am enjoying me again.<P>Things have gone from bad to worse for me. But I will never let him take "Nancy" away again, that I know for sure.<P>You go girl!!!!!!!<P>Nancy

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Nancy, <P>thank you.. I have read your thread, but I have been so preoccupied tonight with this crap I just couldn`t focus on others threads tonight, and that I apologize for, but this is unbeleiveable to me.. <P>and I had the lock smith come over and change my locks which took half the night as well, and now I am just waiting for my ex to get the news from his OW, (perdue) that I was there... and spoke to her H..<P>I`m not sure how he is going to react.. his first vindictiveness might be to hold back his support, (the first is in two days!) and he is most definitly going to be angry at my daughter, who is never to be handed a key again.. because she and he can not be trusted any more.. it may take time for me to trust her gain, but him never... and I really don`t care how mad he is either.. 2 yrs he dissed me.. and this will all come to a hault any way, when the divorce is all final.. so I am not worried about the money.. I am how ever worried about what a wacko he is going to act like in front of my kid.. <P>he is ruthless when he is angry.. he uses every work you could think of in the book, and some we all never heard of!!! he has no control over his temper.. but that is no longer my problem, it is his.. my daughter has seen him in action, plenty of times too, so thats nothing new either.. but the biggest thing is he is going to be protective of his precious perdue!!! poor thing.. it is her turn now to suffer..as she has now once again caused me...<P>I know this sounds so immature to some, but this truely was such a lift to me.. after all this time my ex mistreated me, while I did nothing to deserve any of this and now on top of that, making my kid lie to me, and running around town with a married woman, and MY KID!!!!! that takes/is balls.. <P><BR>I want you to know nancy, I hope you come through with flying colors!!! you go get him girl!!!!<P>I can not tell you what a weight was lifted off my shoulders.. and I know this may cause some problems again with us, but at this point, nothing was going to change any way.. so bring on those papers, and lets get this over with!!!!!<P>but!! I will still have my say, when it comes to my kid.. and thats what she still is, a kid.. she may look like an adult, (being a teen) but she is truely still a kid.. <P>AV

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numbheart, <P> Please don't be angry with your daughter.<BR>She is just stuck in the middle of this. Don't be dissapointed in her. Children try so hard to please everyone, they don't have the ability to be unkind. Please remember to give her an extra hug tonight.<P> Toni

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shera<P>I love my D, and I knnw she loves both of her parents.. that is a given.. but she has lied to me, and knows this was going to up set me if I found out, AND!!! on numerous occassions I have approached her and out right asked her suspecting this, but had no proof.. I had no choice but to beleive her..<P>I do not want dishonesty between us. I will not yell and scream, but I will not back off, (at a teen ager) for what she has done and how she has disappointed me.. <P>she not only has excepted this deciefulness, but watched her mother, (to this day!!!!!!) cry, night after night, for still loving this man.. cry night after night, not even knowing why I even cry any more.. we all go through such horrible pain and hurt.. and what compassion did or is she showing me.. to me, she has dissed me too.. and his way.. the sneaky way... and now I can no longer trust her either...<P>she didn`t do this by her self.. he did this to her.. but, she also allowed him to manipulate her.. I *do* have to instill in her, what she has caused, and done and hopefully she has learned from this horrible pain she has now caused me too.. and she has learned big time..<P>if you allow some one, (any one, even your kids) to walk all over you.. who looses in the end.. you!! well sorry.. I always try to nip things in the butt.. she needs a good taling to. and this will also go to her therapist.. and she *will* know what a magit her dad is, for involving her, as she gts older.. she *will* realize what she did.. but I know at this time,she is still young and it is most difficult.. I am not a vulcher, (sp?) and will not ruin my relationship, by ignoring her, or things, like he does.. (a real professional avoider, thats why we are where we are) this needs attention.. this was unexceptable, (for me). I will not live with deceit.. and I will not allow her to live with HIM!! so she must make changes if she is to live life, in the right! and not allow him to MAKE HER LIE TO ME, **HER MOTHER** <P>this hussy he is roaming/sneaking around with, now knows I mean business, for the first time, she also in no longer going to screw with me either.. I took my stand.. and she had no right to do this to my kid either.. she has two grown kids, and they never knew about them yet, so why should she involve her self with mine.. (perdue has no scruples any more either.. it is all self indulgences..) well you know what.. thats fine for those two.. but NOT!!! WHEN IT INVOLVES MY KID..<P><BR>I am sorry if you, or any one disagrees.. but this is my child that has now lied to me, and is taking HIS PATH IN LIFE.. but NOT IN MY HOUSE!!!<P>AV<P>

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{{{{{{{{{{{{{AV}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>Sorry I didn't see your reply in time. I have been thru hell myself this week and now I'm sick on top of it.<P>Good for you girl!!! Going to OW house!! I'd have done it too. <P>Thats a bunch of crap that our kids can't be protected and the laws are not based around some morals and decency in this world. <P>When my h left on xmas, a week later, he was forcing me to send my kids to OW house, cuz thats where HE resided for visitation. Can you believe it, a freaking week?? <P>Sorry, this post has hit a nerve, not with you my friend, but with the justice system and morals of sleeze ball OW who go in and wreck a family.<P>What comes around goes around and she'll get hers, you watch, and you can stand by and say "I knew it"! My h wants to sleep with me and also to come home. I could royally ruin he and OW to the end, but I am playing it cool. I can't think straight anyhow these days.<P>Protect your daughter. She's at that tough age though. It hurts like hell when the kids are kind of, how do I say it, not loyal to their mom's in these situations.<P>Your ex does have NO DAMN right to a copy of your house key if d loses it either. Leave it with a trusted neighbor and see what you can do to ensure that doesn't happen again.<P>You must have been disappointed when you didn't get a reply. That happened to me when I posted mine last Friday. It just goes in spurts around here I guess, its never that we would ignore someone who has replied to us in the past as a supporter.<P>Your right, he's a coward and you definetly are not!!!! Good for you.<P>OM doesn't seem too terribly concerned or am I reading this wrong?? If I were him, she'd be tossed out on her blind little butt for deliberately sneaking and lying. <P>Sorry so long, this just ticked me off, cuz when the kids can't get protected I really get fired up. No sleep and pure total stress aren't helping.<P>Be strong and don't lose sight of what is important here, hugs, Dana<BR>

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numbheart,<P> I feel your pain. I would understand if you clawed OW eyes out and castrated your H, but I feel that a 12 yr old is just a child. One that could easily have been manipulated by her dad. He is a #$%^@ for putting her in this position. So the anger should be with the adult, not the child. Do not make her choose loyalties. Just explain to her that in the future, honesty is much less hurtful than lies, in the long run. <P> Children should not have to suffer for the sins of their parents. I am guessing she is in the 7th grade. I have one in the 8th. This is a time of turmoil for adolecents. They don't need the added responsibility of handling their parents problems too. <P> Do you want her to go to school thinking,<BR>"oh man, I let my mom down, I let my dad down. I am a bad kid. I dissapointed my mom, now my dad is gonna be mad." Would you want to have to deal with these thoughts at 12.<P> Sorry, I just always feel so bad for the children in these situations.<P> Toni

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toni,<P>I do realize all of what you said, and yes of course she WAS MANIPULATED, and now realizes that her self.. <P>but to have any kind of good relationship.. I have to know I can trust her again.. this is going to take time now, for both of us.. forget my ex, he is a waist of time now.. my only concern is this was teaching her it is alright to lie to me, and get away with it.. he took an innocent child and made her sneak aound with him/them. <P>I know, she now knows this devastated me.. and I *am* very dissappointed with her.. but she also knows I love her unconditionally!!!!!, and this will not stop me from trying to teach her right from wrong.. <P>yes they are kids and yes I agree that kids should NOT have to go through this.. that is the point.. to stop this, this instant, and not have him keep involving her any more... <P>HE NEEDS HELP!!! he sees no wrong in his deceitfulness.. but!!! my D knows this woman is married.. and now also knows, that her husband now knows everything too..<P>what kind of a role model is he, and of course I am once again, going to be made out to be the bad guy, in my ex`s eyes.. <P>because to him I should have minded my own business.. well thats the point too.. she is my business.. and this was immoral.... and the two of them, (OW and Ex) needed this lesson to learn as well.. because to INVOLVE A KID.. MY KID.. thats over stepping the boundaries.. sorry..<P>my daughter was now taught to be dishonest.. I feel I have to re-teach her how to be honest, wiith me as well as with HIM!!! she disrepected me, by allowing these two slims to buy/convince her this was no big deal.. so how does she re-act in her future relationships.. THIS WAY!!! and I know this is because she doesn`t want her dad saying tough, if you don`t except perdue, then you don`t get to see me.. thats how selfish he may be, and she doesn`t want to mkae waves for her self.. but she never once, cared that making this wave would effect our relationship.. she knew I would never dis her, and so she took this chance, so not to loose her dad ever further.. this is the possition he put her in.. and she mad a bad choice, and now has learned a good lesson by it.. <P><BR>I do feel so terrible that these things come about too. but if it were me, when I was young (I was sensative and shy in my day, and this would have effected me big time) I would most definitly grow up being even more confused.. my dad cheated on my mom for yrs.. but not once did any of his siblings know about who, when, or where they were.. EVER!!!! and you know what.. I was still raised with set morals and values that made me who I am today, and am dame proud of, and finding out, was still painful, but can you imagine, having to be put in a possition like that, to have to hold this in, for his sake, and for mine.. is that what I should do, is keep allowing my ex to put her on the spot, over and over again.. and allow her mind to be screwed up, for his stupidity... <P>sorry, not my daughter.. she will grow up knowing how to respect peoples wishes, and if in any situation, she is uncomfortable she should BE ABLE TO DO AS SHE FEELS is the right thing.. and not HAVE TO BE FORCED TO DO THE WRONG THING..<P>this is the leson I hope to instill in her after all this.. it is a very vulnerabletime in her life, and this has to be niped in the butt.. <P>I new the moment I approahced her with that photo, SHE KNEW SHE WAS WRONG!!!<BR>she learned.. and she will come around, to being that better person, then her dad has now portrayed him self to be..!!!<P>AV<BR>

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Shoot, I posted once and it did't work! I just want you to please becareful! I know your angry and it was wrong of your ex to put your daughter in the middle, but that is exactly where the poor thing is. It may not seem like it to you, BUT you are making her choose loyalities and more often then not they end up picking the parent they miss the most or feel sorry for the most. I have a pretty good feeling that your daughter felt that if she didn't lie to you her father would move further away from her, out of her reach. She felt she had no choice. Such a sad situation for a child to be in! You see, my son is also 12. This father has been living with a mentally ill woman for 3+ years now. My ex see's his kids a handful of times a year even though he lives 2 miles away. That is because his girlfriend doesn't want him to have a past. Meaning his parents/siblings children and ex wife. This pains his kids that he doesn't see them much and doesn't call them. I have explained to my son that he needs to talk to his father about his feelings in regards to his actions and his girlfriend. My son admitted that he won't do this for fear of pushing his father further away. He feels that he has to except his father's girlfriend if his father is to be in his life at all. So sad. But you know what? He's right. His father would and pretty much has chosen his girlfriend over his family. At first when I found out about the awful things that were going on in that home when the ex was exercising his visitation, I tried to get help from the legal system. My attorney told me that what his father did with his time with the children was his business. For me to TRY to interfer could very likely cause the legal system to give him custody. I also knew deep in my heart that if I did anything to cause the kids to have less time with their father they would eventually resent me. So, PLEASE becareful because if I had a crystal ball I would see this all turning on YOU and your daughters loyalties eventually switching to her father. Please take her to a counselor that she can trust and I bet you that what I'm telling you is exactly how your daughter is feeling. From you she is feeling shame, guilt and fear and that's a heavy load for a pre-teen on top of everything else she is going through. Again, I'm NOT saying your feelings are not justified but how your handling it will be an outcome you will never be able to live with. Please becareful and use this board and your friends to vent too. NOT your daughter. As she ages she isn't going to care about how your marriage ended or how poor her fathers morals are, she's only going to want to defend and love the parent that she felt was bad mouthed or picked on. My children's father is as dead beat as they come. Hardly sees them, no calls and now he doesn't pay support. You know what? His kids still love him very much and on the rare times he does show up to take them out to eat or to a show their faces beam! They come home and tell me that poor daddy works so, so hard that he's hardly home so that's why he can't pay support. After his bills he has no money left. (BTW, his home is 200,000 +, they drive TWO brand new vehicles etc). You and I know the entire story about their father but I know for sure that if I bad mouthed him they'd love him all the more. So, again, PLEASE get yourself and your daughter into counseling and do everything you can to keep your daughter out of the middle. Your anger and feelings about her father should NOT be vented to her.

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Bonnie,<P>I do have her in therapy, and this will be brought out, for them to talk about.. and her therapist is the most wonderful woman that has a way of getting her to really listen.. and open up<P>I am not yelling or screaming at her, or taking out my anger on her.. but I will not tolerate her living here and KNOWING she is lieing to me all for his sake.. she has to earn her trust back from me now, and this is going to be a hard task with her hanging out with some one with the likes of my ex around.. <P>I know my daughter very well.. and I know she loves us both and nothing is goig to ever change that.. and I don`t want that to ever change, either.. he deserves he love too.. but not doing things like this to her.. she is truely very sensative and very vulnerable, (very into boys right now) and always looking for that affection and attention she misses from her dad.. (she was an only child, in this marriage, but has a half brother from his first marraige, that is 15 yrs older) but she was always the attention grabber.. she has to be center of attraction with freinds, and family. and this was/is devastating to her.. she knows she is in the middle, but I was not the one to put her there.. he chose all of this.. he left me, and she has to realize this was not my doing.. this was not by my choice.. and this is not how I want her to have to live.. I will protect her, as much as I can, as often as I see fit.. so she learns right from wrong..<P>my ex never sat with me and talked to me like a human being.. NOT ONCE! he just doesn`t have it in him, and when he does make an effort, (with every one else, BUT ME!!!) he makes him self look like the one who is the almighty of advise.. it is pathetic that he could do this to me during our whole 12 yrs together.. even 3 before that!! and he can not see that he can only live a good life if things are all going his way, and well, but if things turn out to cause stress.. well OMG, poor thing can`t handle it and runs.. leaves the situation and hasn`t a clue how to resolve anything...<P>well I hope this taught him he shouldn`t play with his kids head..<P>and until his OW`s life takes the *right* turn, he shouldn`t screw around like this...<P>she will grow up as I did, (after learning about my dad at age 25!!!!!!) and was just as devastated, adnhurt for my mom, but being older I knew who to hurt for, and did hate my dad for yrs, and still can`t let go, even moer so now that this happneed to me.. I do act civilized, on the out side, but do the right thing, and do stand up for what right and wrong.. I do know, as an adult how to feel, but had to go through the ropes my self to get this far.. <P>I know my daughter unfortunatly has to go through this even earlier then I did, and there is nothing more I can do about stopping what happens with him, but it is going to be alot better for us, because she will always have me to talk to.. her dad just says his usual.. "I don`t want to talk about it" and she gets dissed frm him all the time.. he has no lcue how to have a normal relationship.. never did.. I realize that now, 12 yrs too late.. <P>I hope my daughter, if nothing else learns to look for soe one that opens up to her immediatly, so she can have a better life then I did..<P>AV <P><BR>

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Dana,<P>I`m so sorry, for not responding to your post you wrote to me.. I must have thought, I did, and answered some one elses.. <P>you see what this crap does to us!!!! I am truely sorry.. I really am loosing it!!!!! <P>I know what you have been through and still are going through as well.. I have read some of your posts too..<P>I agree that these betrayers, (men and woman alike) havn`t got a clue to what kind of pain they have inflicted on any of us.. they (think) they are all running the show... and of course they have no pain, because to them, they have lost all feeling for us, so why would they care..!?<P>I found out today, this woman, (ow) has spent alot of time during the course of the two yrs he left me with them.. and my ex swore he would respect my wishes to not involve our daughter with her... so this only makes me madder... he just keeps lieing, over and over.. what does it take to get them to come to there sences!!??<P>I also found out that he said to my daughter, that he is now calling his lawyer.. well I can`t wait to see what happens now.. what could he do to me, if SHE IS STILL MARRIED...!! is he dence, or what...!<P>it is labor day week end, so nothing can happen until next week.. so this will have to be continued... <P>he also asked my daughter how she may feel if he ever winds up living with the ow.. my daughter told me she said, she doesn`t think she would like it.. well halaluya!! she finally said something possitive, and took a stand.. but of course we all know this is not going to stop him any way... <P>Dana, you hang in there.. and I do hope for all our sakes, things work out for the better.. but as the OLD!! saying goes..!! things *do* take time.. <P>well, his time/turn is just now coming!!<P>AV<P><BR>

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AV,<P>It is not putting your daughter in the middle to insist upon honesty from her. Parents who look the other way when their children lie are neglecting their moral upbringing.

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Nellie1,<P>thanks for some p[ossitive feed back.. I pride my self on honesty, and I`d like to think and know my daughter feels the same way as she grows up.. and not to let her dad inflict his bad habits that have now grown even bigger, on her..<P>I know that in one way she is releived that this is out and she doesn`t have to lie to me any more, and also that in the future, she knows I am not mad at her I am mad at her dad, and this was all his doing.. although she knew this would up set me, and hurt me, she also *was* put on the spot by *HIM!* and so she now knows this was him manipulating her, and did a good job of it too..<P>I know she didn`t want to dissappoint him, or see him less because he may have chosen OW over her.. but in the future, I wan to teach her that she has to take a stand for her self, and NEVER!!! let or allow any one to take advantage of her again.. not even me.. <P>I have dated in the past two yrs, and not once did I allow any one to meet my daughter.. and I had every right to do so.. but I also would never choose a married person to do so with!!1 and thats the difference here.. if this OW was not married.. I would have still been up set, but I feel then I couldn`t have done a thing, because there is no wrong being done, other then this was the woman he left me for.. <P>any way.. I do thank you again, for making me NOT feel I was wrong.. <P>you take care Nellie1.. <P>AV


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