I just remembered that what I should be doing is praying for her health, happiness and well-being. That has helped me release the tension I was feeling. <P>It's important to remember that no matter what our spouses or ex's have done to us or failed to do for us, they are still God's children and deserving of everything that comes with that. Their journey may now or soon be separate from ours, but we are not their ultimate judges, nor are they ours.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sisyphus:<BR><B>Many speculations occur to me, running the full gamut from her being so happily distracted I'm not even noticed, to her having experienced a completely debilitating emotional crash. From her being so angry she can't stand even the idea of me, to being afraid to express a sense of gratitude.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Believe me, I know this uncertainty.<P>Once upon a time, being the introspective sort, I pondered my greatest fears. The worst thing I could think of at the time was that my wife would disappear under suspicious circumstances (apparently abducted) and that I would not know what had happened to her.<P>About six or seven weeks after my wife left me, I discovered that she had apparently gone out of town for a while, and it suddenly occurred to me that I was actually living through my worst fear.<P>It just had never occurred to me that my wife might abduct <I>herself</I>.<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GnomeDePlume:<BR><B>Once upon a time, being the introspective sort, I pondered my greatest fears. The worst thing I could think of at the time was that my wife would disappear under suspicious circumstances (apparently abducted) and that I would not know what had happened to her.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I never really <I>feared</I> anything like that--except on those occasions when she would tell me of something that happened in her travels that would indicate an alarming lack of street smarts ... particularly if while she was using a hotel pay phone someone came to her with a sob story or offer to give her a lift someplace. That happened a few times, and her recountings always seemed as though she was slow on the uptake. Hardly anybody gets past <I>Go!</I> with me. <P>I <I>hope</I> she's slicker than that today, but even a couple of years ago there were still alarming instances... And being petite with an upper body that's nearly disabled ... I shudder to think.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sisyphus:<BR><B>I just remembered that what I should be doing is praying for her health, happiness and well-being. That has helped me release the tension I was feeling.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I add <I>protection</I> to that list. When those we love are in the fog, they are oh so vulnerable to destructive impulses. I pray that God will protect my wife from herself.<P>The course corrections God applies on our individual journeys may be small, as he forbears from dumping a full awareness of our folly on us all at once. If my wife must take a circuitous path to healing, so be it. I will wait, and I can always forgive what she does to me. <I>That</I> damage is not irreparable. But the worse trouble she gets into, the harder it will be for her to forgive herself.<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sisyphus:<BR><B>I hate to admit it, but I'm hungry for <I>some</I> response from her. I know I did something that must be hard for her to stomach, but of course it needed doing (or if it didn't need doing anymore she sure could have told me <I>that</I> too, when I first broached the subject).<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Sounds like something I read somewhere before. Reminds one of the absurd hero who was condemned to rolling a rock up a hill for eternity. He continued to do what he saw as his duty to humanity, no matter how useless the effort, no matter how absurd. Let's see now, what was his name? <P>Bumper<P>

In going through past e-mails, I just found another subject where I got no reply from her--she's Catholic, I'm not, and I suggested that it might be time for her to go for an annullment. I didn't put it in these exact words, but I feel like if I was married in the Catholic Church, our marriage should also be ended within the Catholic Church's authority as well as secularly. <P>Could I have touched off some smoldering thought processes there?--we still had some communication and I even boarded the dog after that for a few days, but things got <I>much quieter</I> between us.

Hmm. You may be sending her off on some guilt trips here...<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GnomeDePlume:<BR><B>Hmm. You may be sending her off on some guilt trips here...</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I don't want her on a guilt trip. What I want is <I>clarity</I> and <I>finality</I> regarding our financial and ecclesiastical union's total and complete dissolution, as well as the winding up of pending matters of a personal nature, which I believe that secret was the largest example of. <P>Or I want to know that she wants it <B><I>back</I></B> and would be willing to work toward that goal, regardless of the difficulties.<P>Right now, regardless of having a wonderful relationship with new GF (which is making me feel more than a little guilty because I am prevented from giving myself totally to her), I feel like XW could reel me back in. <P>I have a solemn union with her I swore to uphold in church. Regardless of the fact that we have obviously both broken our vows at this point, <I>violating</I> a contract doesn't necessarily <I>void</I> it. I'm not of a mind that there are two unilateral promises which neither side can unilaterally completely erase ... but I would like more <I>closure</I> than I've got. And my efforts to get it seem now to be <I>purposely frustrated</I>. And I don't know what's going on. And if there's one thing I <B><I>hate</B></I>, <I>it's not knowing what's going on!</I> I think that happened quite enough in my marriage (and yes, I was guilty of withholding information too).

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sisyphus:<BR><B> I don't want her on a guilt trip. What I want is <I>clarity</I> and <I>finality</I>...</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>But your <I>XW</I> may not be able to achieve clarity or finality <I>herself</I> until she takes those guilt trips. Guilt trips are only bad if they don't <I>take</I> you anywhere.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>...<I>violating</I> a contract doesn't necessarily <I>void</I> it.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Ooh, another great quote I'm going to have to remember!<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>...if there's one thing I <I>hate</I>, <I>it's not knowing what's going on!</I></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Which is worse, do you think? Purgatory or hell? The difference is, in purgatory you never know if you're going to get out or not...<P>(OK, I confess, I'm not Catholic either, and I may be completely misrepresenting the doctrine of purgatory. Assuming that doctrine is still part of the Catholic faith.)<BR>

Still no word.

My newest and riskiest strategem has so far failed as well.<P>I sent an online valentine from bluemountainarts entitled "Love Puzzles Me", with the following language:<P><B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>All I want to say is that I still care for you, still <BR>worry about you, and wish that you would communicate with me <BR>so that we can wrap things up or whatever. I know I wasn't <BR>good about making contact with you right after the divorce. I <BR>hope that you have not crawled into a hole and pulled the <BR>hole in after you. I can't blame you if you did (having done <BR>it myself), but you should realize that it didn't help me, <BR>and it won't help you. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I also sent her an e-mail with a link to one of my postings that mentioned her, as well as a link to a search for all my postings.<P>This is potential dynamite, because she was very upset during our marriage that I was posting. I feel it is a move she will not be able to ignore. It is a provocation of the most flagrant sort. She may have been reading this board all along ... or not. If she has, she cannot escape the fact that I now have now been willing to tell her about it. If she hasn't, well, she's got a lot of catch-up reading to do and I'm sure there are plenty of surprises in there.<P>When she read my first postings on "Why Women Leave Men" over a year ago, she described being sick to her stomach at the betrayal she found in what she read about herself. I am still mortified that I made her feel that way, so it is with no small trepidation that I delivered the links. I have no idea what she will feel now. At this stage, maybe nothing. Maybe she will see belated glimmers of me starting to "get it". <P>In any case, there are things that must be done, and she and I need to do them, and without her being engaged (even in anger), we can't get anywhere on this.

It would appear she has enabled a call-block on her cellphone. <I>That</I> is a clear boundary I will have to respect, regardless of its origin--anger, funk, or fear that I'm somehow a danger to her.

So, it sounds like you're about where I am, Sisyphus (except that you're post-divorce and I'm pre-divorce). All communication paths blocked. (X)W vanished from the face of the earth for all intents and purposes.<P>At least <I>I</I> still have the courts to provide <I>some</I> limited avenue of communication. Although that appears to be too clumsy for dealing with such matters as filing taxes. I don't know <I>how</I> we're going to be able to resolve the issue of who gets credit for our estimated tax payments...<BR>

Sisyphus,<P>About your anonomous message to your ex-inlaw: I am assuming the family secret is child sexual abuse. I believe your warning was ignored just as the signals about the original abuse (of your ex-wife) were ignored. In most cases like this the family knows what's happening, but won't admit to the problem. Secret messages will remain part of the problem: keep quiet and pretend it isn't happening.<P>I will be blunt here: if you have reason to suspect that a child is at risk you are morally, and possibly legally, obligated to protect that child. The only option you have to protect that child is to report this case to the local children's aid authorities. Let them intervene and decide if abuse is now occurring. I beg you, do it now before it's too late.<P>Don't worry about jeopardizing your relationship with your ex-wife over this. face it, you're divorced and it ain't going to get any better. Don't worry about breaking any "love busting" rules.<P>Think about the child and help her now. You are the only one who care enough to do it. Your call to the authorities will remain anonimous. But so what if they figure out who broke the silence. You will have done the right thing.<P>May God bless you.<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kenneth:<BR><B>I will be blunt here: if you have reason to suspect that a child is at risk you are morally, and possibly legally, obligated to protect that child. The only option you have to protect that child is to report this case to the local children's aid authorities.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I doubt there was much in the way of a signal. At least, if there was, the only response was for a third person to become more watchful and protective; preventing a recurrence with XW.<P>I've weighed it all, quite carefully. It was a one-time and abortive thing, the perp has had many life changes since that time, and his access to the potential victims is presumably infrequent. There are also other mitigating factors. <P>The law in this state does not require me to take any action now. I don't <I>know</I> enough to trigger that duty.<P>I have to assume that the recipient of the letter is <I>not</I> like the perp (although I have reason to think it may be a larger problem in the family). In any case, I'm not in the picture enough to drive me to do anything more. <P>I'm in pain, and the more help I can get from people on this site right now, the better I will handle it. I've given XW a week to get back to me, after which I start contacting members of her family for help, going back to court only as a last resort.<p>[This message has been edited by Sisyphus (edited February 15, 2001).]

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Sisyphus}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>My favorite debate partner, I can only say one thing. She has made it glaringly clear that she does not want contact from you, and that she will not contact you. I know that this hurts like heck, but often when someone we love leaves us, they don't give us the chance to close up loose ends, answer questions, or even explain it to us. <P>I know you don't want to hear this--I know you want to tie this up, find out what she thinks, and have some kind of closure, but it is time you faced the fact that that will not be happening. If there is going to be any closure, you will have to close it for yourself, because you will not be getting it from her. <P>Recently, I had an occasion to have to do this very thing myself. It's over, there's no communication or explanation, and you just have to accept the fact that there's nothing you can do to "force" the other person to talk to you. I personally reviewed everything that had transpired, looked for what I had done wrong and what I had done right, looked for lessons I could glean, and LET IT GO. Moved on with my life to another place where I needed to put my energies. <P>Right now, you are expending large amounts of your own energy wondering WHY she won't communicate, WHERE you went wrong, WHEN she might talk, WHAT you did or did not do--can or can not do to make her talk. Sisyphus, I believe I can call you my friend. Find a place that would be a more productive place for your life energy and accept the fact that she does not and will not communicate with you about this. Take the energy you are currently using on "Why, Where, When, What" and use it on developing and strengthening the relationship with your GF or on developing and strenghtening your own personal character. We are always learning and growing, so learn from this and become even closer to the man you have the potential to be. <P>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Sisyphus}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} I'm sorry. I wish I had better news for you, but I'll be hanging around as you struggle with this. You know where to reach me, right? If you would like to write in greater detail or have my thoughts in greater detail, my email is cindy_wolfe@blm.gov<P><BR>CJ<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.<p>[This message has been edited by FaithfulWife (edited February 15, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FaithfulWife:<BR><B>It's over, there's no communication or explanation, and you just have to accept the fact that there's nothing you can do to "force" the other person to talk to you.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You wanna hear <I>irony</I>? Here's a great one. When we did the agreement in the divorce, I drafted an extremely tight anti-harassment paragraph, and <I><B>insisted</I></B> it go in there even though <I>she</I> was <I>very</I> offended. <I>Nothing</I> in the way of potential unwanted communication escaped my listing it and prohibiting it. I mean this thing was bulletproof. I was so tired of hearing her say the "A-hole word" whenever I went in any direction she didn't like. If she called up now and that were the first thing out of her mouth, I would nonetheless cry tears of joy.<P>Now, if I so much as sneeze, I'm in violation of this thing I drafted. Heck, I've probably stepped over the line already.

Sisyphus,<P>First of all, you don't know that it was a "once only" event. That may be what your ex-wife told you, but that may not be true of her experience, and there may have been other victims. Families like this sometimes have many layers of lies.<P>Secondly, perpetrators rarley stop on their own. In my opinion, if a child is in the company of someone who even once committed an act of child molestation, then that child is at risk. <P>Thirdly, you don't owe the perp. any favors. The child deserves a happy life. The perp. can steal it away in 5 minutes, without you ever knowing it happened.<P>To heck with what the criminal code in your state says your legal obligations are. Think about saving a child.<P>Look at the facts:<BR>The perpetrator abused at least once before.<BR>He is almost certain to offend again.<BR>He is protected by secrets.<BR>A child is at risk.<BR>The problem won't go away on it's own.<BR>You can stop it only if you report him.<P>Finally, you may be wondering why do I care about this. Well, the obvious is all want to protect children. However there is a personal side: my ex-wife is a survivor of child sexual abuse. Her family turned a blind eye, and kept it's secrets. Now my marriage of 15 years is in ruins, and my ex-wife is in finally in therapy where I pray to God she finds some peace.<P>It's almost certain that a good proportion of the troubles you had in your marriage stem from your wife's childhood trauma. Let me tell you what I have had to contend with and you tell me if any of it sounds familiar:<P>- chronic depression<BR>- outbursts of uncontrolled rage<BR>- threats of suicide<BR>- suicide attempts<BR>- self injury, ie. cutting<BR>- emotional and physical withdrawal<BR>- sexual affairs<BR>- lying, lying, lying<BR>- suspicious reactions when receiving gifts<BR>- dissociation<BR>- infantile regression<BR>- multiple personalities<P>The after-affects of abuse can be profound and not show up for years. It's too late to prevent this from happening to your ex, but don't wait until it's too late for this child. For the love of God, it's the right thing to do!<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FaithfulWife:<BR><B>I can only say one thing. She has made it glaringly clear that she does not want contact from you, and that she will not contact you. I know that this hurts like heck, but often when someone we love leaves us, they don't give us the chance to close up loose ends, answer questions, or even explain it to us.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I'm not sure how much of this I agree with. If Sisyphus wanted to make it "glaringly clear" to him that she wants no contact with him, she has much more direct ways of doing so. If she finds Sisyphus's attempts at communication to be annoying, she knows how to put a stop to them. The fact that she hasn't done so implies to me that she is being avoidant and is possibly ambivalent. Whatever is going on, I think you can be pretty sure that she has not achieved closure for herself, and then simply neglected to let Sisyphus know...<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>If there is going to be any closure, you will have to close it for yourself, because you will not be getting it from her.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Sisyphus, I'm forced to agree that if you need to set a deadline for "closure", you're just going to have to make a decision. I'm afraid that, barring a miracle, whatever you choose is likely to haunt you for the rest of your life. At least, that's how I think it would be for me if I were in your shoes.<P>Which ghosts do you think you can best live with? Which ones will haunt your conscience, and which ones will merely whisper might-have-beens?<P>I don't think this counts as support, but <I>man</I> I feel for you. Your situation is altogether too close to mine. Only, frankly, I think yours is worse...<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kenneth:<BR><B>It's almost certain that a good proportion of the troubles you had in your marriage stem from your wife's childhood trauma. Let me tell you what I have had to contend with and you tell me if any of it sounds familiar:<P>- chronic depression<BR>- outbursts of uncontrolled rage<BR>- threats of suicide<BR>- suicide attempts<BR>- self injury, ie. cutting<BR>- emotional and physical withdrawal<BR>- sexual affairs<BR>- lying, lying, lying<BR>- suspicious reactions when receiving gifts<BR>- dissociation<BR>- infantile regression<BR>- multiple personalities<P>The after-affects of abuse can be profound and not show up for years. It's too late to prevent this from happening to your ex, but don't wait until it's too late for this child. For the love of God, it's the right thing to do!<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I'm going to be frank. I've seen some of those. But I just don't have the stomach to make a 20-year old second-hand allegation, where I will simply look like an embittered ex. Especially where the potential victims don't live with the perp, just in the same city. <P>Knowing this town, I wouldn't get past square one with the state's attorney, and even if I could, I don't think venue is properly laid here. And the distant town where the offense happened? Well, I can think of some reasons why there might be interest in it there, and none of the reasons are really the right reasons (more likely, they would be reasons of local animosity to a relative of my XW who is <I>not</I> the perp). <P>It is something I'll think on. But I don't think I'll be doing anything further. I just don't feel the moral imperative I did about giving the warning. The warning ought to suffice. Especially if both of the parties responsible for the welfare of the potential victims have seen the note, which I think is likely.