Well folks, Stu, as always, is going to get down to the nitty-gritty...<P>I don't think a divorce board should be part of a Marriage Builder's site at all. I completely agree with TMD. Not only that, I don't exactly understand why everyone is jumping down his throat. Has anyone taken a look at the list of topics here recently? On average, there is a good two or three active threads that talk about dating, etc on any given week. <P>If you look at it from Harley's viewpoint, having the failed marriages along with the infidelity/recovery area wasn't the best thing for people still trying to save their marriages. As alot of you know, remaining hopeful and optimistic during those times was tremendously difficult. I remember what the board was like when the two forums were together, and I also remember that Harley jumped on the idea pretty quickly once a few people suggested it.<P>While, I'm happy that many of you have found solice here (and I have to some extent as well), it does OFTEN bug me how quickly and easily some people can shut the door to their marriage and gleefully (yea, that IS the word I'm gonna use) go find someone else....regardless of whom divorced/cheated on whom first.<P>But hey, I can't change the world. I can't change the fact that 50% of first marriages in this country end in divorce. I can't change the fact that 75% or greater of subsequent marriages end in divorce as well. It is obvious that many people just don't have THAT big of a problem with it. And puleeze. Let's not get into that same old argument about how hard you, me, or anyone else tried to save their marriage and how much we all "deserve" happiness. Ugh.<P>I agree with Nellie. For people who aren't thrilled about sifting through dating options (or being sifted through), this ain't the place to be. I've debated (ad-nauseum) many of these points in the past. <P>TMD, for your friend's particular situation, I personally would not recommend this site either. Sorry folks.

I remember in my HS Senior English class we did a section on Bias, and it's several forms used to put forth a point of view. I honestly don't understand how I recall it it because my eyes where generally glazed red...What I do remember was the "Bandwagon" and how it is used in literature to sway a group by getting others to join the cause...<P>I see alot of that on this board. I think this is a good thing, because the one thing we need going through and after our D's is several view points...<P>On one hand we have the go out and start dating crowd...Is this wrong??? Who knows. It all depends on how dependant one is on another human being to provide thier happiness. If I need someone to make me happy then I have no buisness dating...<P>Then there is the wait 1-2 years crowd...Are they right?? Don't know. But...Conventional wisdom shows this to be the better way. Giving one time to soul search and figure out thier own ENs and how to deliver ENs to a prospective new spouce...<P>And lastly there is the Bitter can't get over the ex of forgive myselfcrowd...What about this group?? I haven't figured y'all out...Sorry, but this is MY opinion...<P>Most fall in between these catagories as I see them and they seem to get raked through the coals as the decide thier own fate. I think that anyone comming to this site can take something away that is positive and learn to heal.<P>As far as finding someone new on this site??? How is it necessarily(sp) wrong...Don't know that either...I guess I don't know ****..LOL<P>What I do know is I wholeheartedly recomend this site to everyone expeirinceing marrital woes...The tools that I have learned here give me a greater chance at a subsiquent(sp) marriage...<P>I am not one to judge too harshly those that decide how they want to live...After all I don't have to pay your tab!<P>Damn...I am out of time...hopefully I can finish this thought later...<P>Bill<P>

You know what I have noticed on these boards? Not that some people give a hoot, but it seems that if you don't agree with them they flay you alive. Sometimes it makes me wonder why their marriage failed...my way or the highway.<P>The name of this forum is divorcing/divorced. It is logical to assume that if you are here, you are either divorced or in the process of getting divorced. It would seem that most people base their judgement on their own situation. That is not right. If you are divorced and you want to date...what right to total stranges have to tell you not to...that you are as bad as a betraying spouse. The egos of some people are remarkable.<P>We all know how the Student feels about dating. So, I say to her, don't do it...if you don't want to, or feel it is wrong, fine. I respect your opinion and feelings and thoughts on the matter. But don't try to shame others who are dating. What difference does it make to you?<P>I know, I have been told by some here...that I don't believe in marriage...I shouldn't be here. I am sorry, but no one knows more than me how much I tried. I spent 10 years with a chronically ill, abusive spouse, while working and taking care of two little boys. How dare someone jump in and tell me...I didn't try...I shouldn't be here. My stbxh has treated me worse than awful...I am suffering dearly and so are my children. I came to these boards to find support not to be judged. I do deserve a little happiness. If that makes me a lousy person...than so be it.<P>As you have all heard me say before...I make a living working with divorced and separated folks. Do you know why 75-80% of second marriages fail...because usually the people involved don't learn a single thing from their previous mistakes...they do it all over again. Think about that. So many people go on about how much they have learned about relationships because of what they have been through. Perhaps they have, but they don't act on it...the same mistakes just repeat themselves.<P>I am sorry for the rant...but if I have to read one more snotty comment about dating or how some people don't have a good enough attitude about marriage...I won't be coming back either. <P>

I think Lonelysoul is right. <P>We were all brought to this site because we wanted to save our marriages. Whether we were the ones betrayed or we did the betraying,(and that can mean not just adultry, but not being a true partner to a spouse)we wanted our marriages. <P>For one reason or another, some of us failed in that endeavor. But, having said that, many of us learned hard lessons from this experience and also learned many principles here that would have enhanced our marriage and made it great again if we had been able to. <P>So, is the right thing to do is live the rest of your life without marriage?? Sure, if it is what is right for you. But I do believe that humans are drawn to wanting a relationship, otherwise why did we get married in the first place?? So, many of us want that second chance. And we feel that what we have learned here will help us achieve a good relationship the second time. <P>What better place to discuss these issues but in this forum?? I myself have found comfort, solstice, and help here when I have needed it. We all have our opinions on timing, what is appropriate, etc. But the goal here is to help yourself be a better person. And, IF you want that second chance with another, what you can learn here will help. <P>I am 47. I waited to marry until I was almost 30. I lived two + years of hell waiting for my X to decide between me and another. I tried my best. I have been separated for over two years, divorced for over a year. I waited to date until my divorce was final. And for me that was right. I am at the point in my life where I want another relationship. It is been wonderful to be able to come here and discuss this with others who are going through the same things. <P>This IS the right place to discuss these issues. Some of us want marriage again, and want to be able to continue to grow with MB principles. Many here are still trying to save their marriages, even though they are divorced. This IS the right place for them as well. And many here are still working through the pain and this IS the right place for them as well. We are all entitled to our opinions, but please, lets not LB with our dealings with others here. <P>------------------<BR>Susan

lonelysoul,<P>TMD stated a different opinion, and he was flayed alive. <P>To me, it rarely makes a difference why the divorce happened. Everyone has their own story. Usually, when I occasionally have the opportunity to see both sides, I can see each person has a point and both have bad habits that contributed to the unhappiness of the relationship. <P>I don't think the children really care who the "bad guy" is either. They just want their family together. What we are teaching our children, and teaching each other with these repetitive "marriages" is that marriage is simply not a lifetime commitment anymore. That is just the way our culture is. And that is ok too. Just make it clear up front that you're not really in it for life. Next time, say something like...as long as love lasts or something like that. It really would be much more practical and alot more clear for everyone involved. Personally, I've ceased calling second marriages a marriage (if their first marriage involved a promise for life). I now call it a "commitment ceremony" and their relationship as a "union". People want the social status of "marriage" and a so-called life-time commitment but don't want the yucky stuff that goes along with it. <P>Sue,<P>"So, is the right thing to do is live the rest of your life without marriage??"<BR>You were married. You aren't anymore.<P>"Sure, if it is what is right for you. But I do believe that humans are drawn to wanting a relationship..."<BR>That's ok. Just don't call it a marriage. <P>"...otherwise why did we get married in the first place??"<BR>I hope because you wanted to make an unconditional vow to spend the rest of your life with this person. Since that was not the case (it was conditional, after all), then don't make that promise again. Simple. <P>"So, many of us want that second chance."<BR>And a third, and a fourth... Making repetitive lifetime commitments dilutes it's original intent. I'm sure people who are getting married for the first time don't want others to think that they aren't really in it for life, however, that has become the reality more often than not.<P>"And we feel that what we have learned here will help us achieve a good relationship the second time." I'm ok with that too. Just don't call it a marriage. As far as I'm concerned, people get to make that claim only once.<P>Like I said...there is really no point in arguing how hard you worked on your marriage. Second (and subsequent) marriages (or "unions") fail, IMO, not because they haven't learned "anything", but because they've already been through one...realized it wasn't THAT bad, and hey, they can find someone else. People who stay in their first marriage don't have a lock on marital skills. Some stay married because they simply don't believe that finding someone new is going to be the answer to life's problems and they do the best with what they've got. And some of them take that lifetime commitment completely literally. <P>Neither TMD nor myself have said that dating is WRONG if you are divorced. I've never said that having another relationship is WRONG either. <p>[This message has been edited by TheStudent (edited March 14, 2001).]

Hello All,<P>First to <B>TMD</B>. There is so much good to be found on MarriageBuilders... your friend can learn so much, but not from the D/D side of things. This board is for those of us who fought for our marriages and "lost." This is not the place for your friend. Maybe the <I>Just Found Out</I> forum, or <I>General Questions</I>.<P><I><B>A Note about the Boards</I></B>: The D/D board is mostly full of friends (cyber or otherwise) who have fought pretty much together, over a certain course of time, to save their marriages. As <B>Jo</B> said earlier, this board is full of people who have gone a long way down the road from those who've just found out, or are just beginning to work anew on their marriages. <P>Have you ever gone to the Emotional Needs board? It's full of sex questions and talks! Does that mean it's a porn site? No... but the progression has led to lots of talk about sexual fulfillment needs. People there feel safe, and they are able to discuss those issues without fear of flaming or embarrassment. <P>My point is that <B>each board serves a different sub-purpose</B> - aside from the obvious (Marriage BUILDING) -- and that is, of course, NOT counting the D/D board.<P>That being said, I agree with <B>Student</B> that MarriageBuilders should <B>NOT</B> have begun a D/D board. IT just seems to fly in the face of what is trying to be accomplished here. <P>I also would like to address something <B>Deb (Bozo's)</B> said earlier: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>...if both marriages are over and divorces have been filed for I really don't see a problem if people then decide to meet and see what happens. Now if people are still married and start pursuing another relationship while making their spouses think they have a chance that is a whole other story.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I guess you could say it's semantics. Legally yes, David and I were still married for six months after filing, but to me, once I filed, in my mind, heart and soul, my marriage was over. <P>In some situations, as in some states in the US and some countries, couples have to be seperated for an alloted amount of time before the divorce can even be filed. That was the case with my new man. Legally yes, he and his stbx were still married for a year and 31 days after he left. <P>There are so many variables in life. I am fond of saying that we all do the best we can with what we have in front of us at any given moment. <P>For me, I just was so tired of the pain. I didn't set out to find someone to replace David, because nobody can. I didn't set out to hurt anyone here on MB, but it seems I did. I didn't set out to care about a bunch of faceless strangers on a marriage website, but I do.<P>I am in no position to judge anyone. I am just a person in the crazy world trying to do the best I can. I suspect that you all are doing the same. <P><p>[This message has been edited by new_beginning (edited March 14, 2001).]

Was my marriage conditional? You bet.<P>!. I could no longer live with multiple affairs by my spouse.<BR>2. I could no longer take the cruelty directed towards me on a daily basis.<BR>3. I could no longer wait till my next checkup to find out which diseases I might possibly have contracted by my spouse's unwillingness to protect himself or ME.<BR>4. My children needed me, I did not have the luxury of suicide.<P>Those are all "conditions" I finally put upon this so called "marriage" and NO I would not live out the rest of my life "literally" till death do us part! There is such a thing as self-respect and survival involved in the divorce of many people. To stay in abusive situations for the sake of "vows" is insane.<P>Marriage is a word. Call it whatever you like. It is between two people, ONLY. It is their word, their relationship, their lives. Legally, it is referred to as marriage, guess we'll have to go with it.<P>Divorcing is the most painful, gut-wrenching experience in the world. No one makes the decision lightly. Sometimes you have to save your own life and if you are lucky, you can emerge a stronger and wiser person. Divorce is most often about stopping unbearable pain and suffering. <P>Dating and trying again is a completely personal choice and decision. I certainly wasn't looking for it and don't have any idea where it will ultimately go but I am grateful for my relationship and what it brings to both of us. We are divorced adults who did not want to be. We have been through the same fire and are very gentle and supportive of one another. (imagine my good fortune that he is terribly handsome, funny, accomplished, interesting, sexy and KNOWS HOW TO BE COMMITTED) This is a gift in my life.<P>There is a place here as "divorced" people to keep in touch and share their trials, tribulations and adjustments to their new lives. We have supported one another through every other step, why not this one? When I came here, there was only one forum. People who are not in this place and hopefully will never be, should stay on the forums that fit their needs. God willingly, you will never have a real reason to be here as a divorcing or divorced person.

OK, I think that I am going to jump on here. This is a very interesting thread. I have not been on the D/D post long, but I have gotten a lot of insight. First to TMD and TheStudent. I respect both of your opinions. You are both right in what you are saying. I, nor anyone else, have any right to judge you on these opinions. Let’s face it, nothing brings a solution to a problem into clear focus than seeing both sides of the fence. And in this particular thread, both sides are very much expressed. When you express an opinion that might not be what the general population is willing to accept, you have to be prepared for a lot of opposition. I see your points, especially about the view that marriage is conditional to some people. In my case, it was very conditional to my STBXW. As long as she didn’t have anyone else, then she wanted to married. Now that she has some one that is better than me, she wants to be divorced. Go figure.<P>I believe that most of us on this post didn’t have any choice in the matter when it came to D. I still struggle with my STBXW decision. She has made the choice for both of us, so now I have to make certain choices for myself. IMHO, dating during or immediately after a D is not healthy. There are still a lot of emotional issues that one has to deal with for oneself before another person can be brought into the equation. How much time that takes, is completely up to the individual. And no one can tell someone what is best for them; they must decide that on their own.<P>As far as MB relationships go, it is only natural that there will be a few from time to time. We are all here dealing with very similar problems, and trying to use each other for support. We have all used MB principles of one type or another to fix the wrongs that were created in our respective marriages. That gives everyone here a lot in common. That is also a building block for long term relationships, romantic or otherwise. As long as the two people that are entering into that relationship do it honestly, there should be no problem. And that is something that they have to decide.<P>As far as a D/D post on a Marriage site, I do see a need for it. The principles are to make yourself a better person so that it is safe for the WS to return. If that does not happen, are we suppose to just leave and take nothing away from this experience. I believe that this post gives anyone dealing with a D some support and insight to continue making positive changes in their lives. Without a post like this, those that are struggling with this issue would have no where to go. I believe that the principles that I have learned, and the mistakes I have made will make me a better person in the long run. Whether I decide on another relationship or not, only time will tell. But if I do, I want to make sure that what I did do in the past is not done again in the future.<P>And as far subsequent marriages go, I do believe that you can call them what you want. I have friends that are on more than their first marriage and they have worked long and hard to keep their commitment to each other. But like all commitments, it does take two people to honor it. <P>Please don’t take this as a judgement. It is only my HO. <P>Griz<P><BR>------------------<BR>Sometimes the hardest journeys in life are not the ones you embark on alone, but those that you choose to travel together.<p>[This message has been edited by Griz (edited March 14, 2001).]

To The student...I don't believe anyone lashed out at TMD...not until he made sweeping judgemental statements...like meat market, etc.<P>It would seem that you think people should stay married no matter what. Geez what kind of message would I be sending to my boys if I stayed with my husband after he choked me in front of them. What kind of message would I be sending if I tolerated being called every foul name in the book...to be referred to as "What's your problem woman?" Sorry, I want my children to grow up and know that it isn't okay to smack the woman around because I'm in a bad mood...after all we are married...I can do what I want.<P>Someone made the comment that MB shouldn't have a Divorced/Divorcing forum...well quess what...it does. <P>I am sorry I get defensive when someone goes on about committment and how superior they are to the rest of us because they won't date...or will they ever accept divorce. Good for you...my spouse was abusive, I don't care if I have your approval or not. I know how committed I was and am to my family. Should I throw myself out a ten story building instead of divorcing him?<P>Not all of us have the luxury of going to school to get our PHD...being surrounded by men...and then going for a massage when we are feeling stressed. Stress is my middle name and I barely have time to fit a shower in after working a million hours a week, taking care of two boys, a house, and tending to all that goes with it. A massage? I wish. I am broke and tired and wore out, but it beats living an enviornment where I did all those things anyway...and had to deal with an abusive spouse. Divorce is the pitts of the world, but so is living a life where you are treated like a used kleenex.<p>[This message has been edited by Lonelysoul (edited March 14, 2001).]

There was no way that I could single-handedly save my marriage. It was long over-with before I came here. I was hunting other information when I found this site. I'd already been divorced for 18 months. <P>This bulletin board has given me a safe place to work on issues that relate to parenting when x will admit his goal in life is to make my life H##L. A place to deal with my remaining anger. A place to find better ways to deal with x and with myself. A place to be patted on the back when I do something right and no one else would understand how hard it was.<P>As a divorced person, it's been a wonderful gift to me. <P>I've met a lot of wonderful friends here. Found much comfort. And I am grateful every day for this place.<P>I don't know if I will ever remarry. And I'm not fretting over that. But right now I am building that theoretical marriage simply by gaining knowledge, insight into myself and others, and healing. <P>

There was no way that I could single-handedly save my marriage. It was long over-with before I came here. I was hunting other information when I found this site. I'd already been divorced for 18 months. <P>This bulletin board has given me a safe place to work on issues that relate to parenting when x will admit his goal in life is to make my life H##L. A place to deal with my remaining anger. A place to find better ways to deal with x and with myself. A place to be patted on the back when I do something right and no one else would understand how hard it was.<P>As a divorced person, it's been a wonderful gift to me. <P>I've met a lot of wonderful friends here. Found much comfort. And I am grateful every day for this place.<P>Do I think it inappropriate to have a forum for divorced or divorcing people on a bulletin board devoted to the saving of marriages. No!! Harley may be good. Lots of counselors are good. But none of them are God. They can't work miracles. And there are times when ending a marriage is the only healthy choice. <P>I don't know if I will ever remarry. And I'm not fretting over that. But right now I am building that theoretical marriage simply by gaining knowledge, insight into myself and others, and healing. <P>

As an addendum to my earlier post - be clear about this:<P><B>I AM THANKFUL FOR THIS BOARD</B><P>But in my humble opinion, once they broke down the MB site into micro-topics, and included the Divorce Board, the marriage <I>BUILDING</I> aspect of it got a bit muddled up.<P>Make no mistake, this board has saved my sanity on many, many occasions... I am thankful for it, and for everyone on it.<p>[This message has been edited by new_beginning (edited March 14, 2001).]

well, i can be opinionated, that's for sure, as is TS, which is great. everyone has their own hot buttons, where if the conversation goes a certain way, they feel obliged to post because they feel strongly about it. lots of times, it brings out the lurkers.<P>TS's hot button is moving from one relationship to the next without taking the requisite time to do the preparation work of discovering yourself, etc. she is quite passionate about her beliefs. good.<P>I, on the other hand, don't mind differences of opinion, but my hot button is convoluted logic, emotional logic, and then defensiveness or emotional reactions instead of logic and reasons. (part of what got me here is that i show little emotion sometimes, relying on logic and analysis before speaking or reacting. i am not cold, just thinking) so I am not against a different opinion, but i am against black and white logic/thinking, gross generalizations that one incident proves the point, and then getting defensive when disagreed upon, an emotional response, not a logic response.<P>apologies for coming across strongly, but i have those beliefs, and after having been in an illogical marriage for so long, meaning, our discussions were one sided with emotion and one sided with logic, that we could never agree, and i could never understand or relate to the backwards logic, i am very sensitive to emotional logic and emotinoal defenses when presented with them. <B> and there is alot of personality displayed just with reponses, if one can figure it out. </B> so to say one doesn't know squat, is also an emotional defense, since one can learn alot from the words, concepts and thoughts presented.<P>so, opinions are great, lets go, but so are mine. if you are rigid, great, make sure the reasoning is sound, and just feeling one way is great, but if you make all you decisions or opinions on feelings, your position is non discussable, your position is abstract. remember, affairs and instant gratification is all about feelings, very little logic or thought.<P>apologies to those your can't handle logic or differences in opinions, but i learn something from differences of opinions, and sometimes even come around to agreeing with them.<P><B> and i use this board right now primarily for vented at the X, then getting some feedback. </B> and after i put together my current list of stresses, i am dealing with the most amount of stressors that i ever have in my life, and it doesn't quite seem to be ending! <P>Hopefully, it will get better.<P>good luck!<P>tom<BR>

I agree that we should not date while we are still married, however, marriage is a religious and legal ceremony while a divorce is a legal tool only. So somewhere along the line, the religious pact is broken and the marriage is over.<P>Someone I respect very much told me that waiting till after the enivitable divorce to date is like waiting to bury a dead person until the death certificate is filed. The person/marriage is still dead.<P>I am not sure I agree with him though.<P>As far as the D/D board, I think it is a God send. While I like to help others save their marriage, mine was over and I felt out of place on the other boards.<P>I wish some of the new posters woould go to the other boards first. They come here and I have to admit I sometimes feel like telling them, cut your losses now dump the WS.<P>I know that is not right and that there is a chance of saving the marriage, but I see a lot of similiar patterns over the 2 yrs I've been here and know that they won't succeed.<P><p>[This message has been edited by RWD (edited March 14, 2001).]

Part of the reason I do not go to any of the other boards anymore is because a) I can't relate to any of the experiences at the present time b) it is too painful to watch others go through the same thing I did even if I can offer support and encouragement. After getting to know people here and feeling so much inspiration, it made sense for me to "graduate" to the D/D board. It seemed like a natural progression to share the feelings and aftermath with others. When our marriage is over, does that mean our ties here are through too?<P>BTW: STudent, if the D/D board should not be a part of MB, why have you been around here for so long? Two years, yes?<BR>

Hello to all,<P>Interesting question, and one that was sure to start a debate or flames of some sort.<P>I have to agree with a lot of what was said, that a lot of the current "oldies" here did come here right as this particular "divorcing/divorced" side opened up. Many had followed each other's stories from Just found out, to Plan A, to General Questions, to here. I guess it does seem like a lot here are dating, but I think most have been going thru this for some time now.<P>I'll answer the question, and no I'm not replying to get in a debate, but yes, I did date someone from MB. No it wasn't planned, it was more accidental. We started only as friends, and it went from there. There were "pro's" and "con's" to it. One positive thing was both people know about needs and how its important to know the other person's needs (not talking sexual, just the list of those 10 common ones), and also how it's important to communicate. The downside, is you feel as though you lose your sense of freedom in a way because you know that other person is reading what you post. I missed the sense of "safety" I felt once that happened. <P>I will say that in my case, I learned that I personally did date too soon. I was hurt and devastated from being betrayed for a third time and tried Plan A. Once the marriage went into "divorce" proceedings, I felt that it was over . The lawyers and judges have a way of taking what was once a marriage out of love and good memories, and ripping it down to a legal document. <P>If I had it to do over again (and I'm hoping I DON"T do this over again), I would have waited. Of course, thats only something you can decide for yourself and no one telling you will change it. Two people can find each other here, but they need to be considerably over the spouse, before a healthy relationship can form.<P>This is a great site and I found many friends and lots of support on some nights in the beginning when I didn't know how I'd get thru this ordeal. I'd recommend it to anyone. <P>It's unfortunate that we couldn't all save our marriages, but as far as any person I can think of on this board, I can remember reading their story at a time when they tried desperately to fix things. <P>Someone said they see the group broken into those 3 categories, date too soon, the 1-2 year waiters, and those who are still bitter. That's a pretty good category for most of us here. <P>The important thing is to remember we all did love our ex spouse at one point and as far as I remember, everyone tried to save the marriage. I have a lot of admiration for those who can hang on for 2 years, or those who aren't ready to let go for the sake of their vows. Each circumstance , each marriage, each betrayal , are all different though. That's what makes all of our stories different. <P>I hope we all can continue to share things in a positive way and help each other. <P>To the original poster of this topic, I can't see your name anymore there are too many replies, I would say, good luck and be very careful. I didn't follow your story as I did of Gina or Tim, long before there was a Gina AND Tim, but as someone who watched them both go thru the different stages, I am wishing them well also and I do think that it can work just as good from meeting someone here as meeting them elsewhere. I met someone wonderful here, but the timing was wrong. To the person who said that the reason second marraiges fail is because they didn't take time to learn what they did wrong the first time, or learn from mistakes, I think that there is a lot of truth to that, and its why I am still here, on this board, to continue to learn from other people here as well.<P>Dana<BR>

I probably can't comment based on my own situation (yet)... BUT I did attend a DivorceCare group meeting last night and it was about "new relationships". The figure that stands out in my mind is this: for every FOUR years you've been married it takes ONE year to heal. That's a lot of years for some! The key point is to ensure you're ready and it really takes time. Oh, just one more thing to grieve...<P>We don't grieve really well here in the US... the attitude is get up and get on with your life - when that means in many of our relatives lives - get over your Ex- and have I got someone I'd like to introduce you too... Grieving, it's a rare artform.<P>------------------<BR>Doing what you like is freedom... Liking what you do is happiness

To all who have responded,<P>I thank you all for a lively discussion and an educational one. I particularly am proud of those who came forward and answered the question with their own stories.<P>I never lose sight of the fact that we are all human beings making our way through life, the best that we can, in MOST cases.<P>I consider myself to have original thought process and believe that we all do. Everyone is welcome to express their thoughts to me in a kind and rational manner. For heaven's sake, we are members of the same army!!! We are here because we believe so deeply in our marriages and families. It is so important to support one another and give advice and guidance in a respectful fashion. <P>Again, I salute you all for your remarkable abilities and differences. That is what makes us as a race, so endlessly fascinating and a joy to behold.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> I wish some of the new posters woould go to the other boards first. They come here and I have to admit I sometimes feel like telling them, cut your losses now dump the WS. I know that is not right and that there is a chance of saving the marriage, but I see a lot of similiar patterns over the 2 yrs I've been here and know that they won't succeed. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>boy, i agree with you there, bob. at that point, do you think we will really know if the next one is very good? i hope it so, or do you think we know enough just to be dangerous?<P>tom<BR>

It would be good for many to read the other topics before coming here and have a very clear idea of the MB principles, try to apply them to your best ability. <P>Some find this site through search engines, so if they are new here, we should encourage them to read all info on this site, as Jim so often does. <P>As far as "relationships" go, I am wanting another marriage in my future. I am not ready for it now, but I look forward to it in when I am. While I have lived the single life most of my 20's, at this stage in my life, I enjoy the idea of loving again, of having someone to grow old with, to raise grandkids with, etc. <P>I feel that I have grown so much from my previous marriage. This site has made me realize what tools I lacked the first time out. MY x did not want to try again. Had he wanted to, I would have, up until the divorce was final. Sometimes you can't go back, even though you want to. Learning and moving forward is part of our makeup. <P>Again, the personal attacks are not needed here. So, having said that, my last post was slammed. This will be my last post on this board. It is not worth coming to a place where I feel personally attacked because in Students mind, I didn't love my x enough, he didn't love me enough, I am looking for one "relationship" after another, etc. And because I have decided to date and have someone special in my life now, I did not truly want my marriage and I am bedhopping.<BR>I am better than that, and don't need that negativity in my life anymore. I have tried to post in a helpful, non-judgemental way. If I have ever offended anyone, I am sorry. Good luck to all here!!<P>------------------<BR>Susan