Hi all,<P>My stbx is absolutely insisting on bringing OW to every child event/activity - and even to my house to drop the kids off. <P>Her presence absolutely makes me physically ill. I want nothing to do with this woman - not only does she sleep with my husband but she flaunts that fact in my face with his help. It's bad enough that my kids have to be exposed to her.<P>I'm wondering how you all cope/coped with this situation. Barring some lightning bolt from God, I fully expect stbx to marry her as soon as our divorce is final so this may be a long term issue. Please don't tell me to make peace with her or accept her...I'm just not that far down the high road. I just need advice on how to avoid throwing up when I see him with her and my children playing "family."<P>The second problem is what to do with the friends/inlaws that have now become the outlaws. I am extremely uncomfortable around people who have decided to support the person who cheated and his "girlfriend" with whom he cheated - especially since neither of them are divorced yet. They've gone out to dinner all together several times. I feel betrayed by them as well.<P>How do you move on and get past constantly feeling like people just don't get that what he's done is WRONG!<P>Down week - but at least I'm not a pile of mush during these - the roller coaster doesn't go that low any more...I hope.<P>Lisa

Dear Lisa,<P>You have a lot going on. Have you spoken to a counselor or even the Harleys? What about legal advice? <P>In some states, you can submit restraining or harrassment orders to prevent OW from coming to your home or near your children? <P>Lisa, you need some direct support at this time. Someone you can talk with. You have mentioned some persons not being there for you. Is there someone you can speak with?<P>Building your support group for you right now is important. You can talk here also. Many cities have places where mothers and wives can call for legal advice. <P>Take Care,<BR>

(((((((((LISA)))))))))<P>I was surprised to see my name up there, no one ever is looking for me! <P>I remember feeling exactly where you are, and I absolutely hated it. In my experience, my ex had left on xmas day, a week later was discovery and within a few weeks after that, H was living with OW. And wanted his kids with him every other week.<P>At first, I tried my hardest to fight it. I looked to inlaws , who all stuck by me, except H's mom. I looked to a lawyer. Asked pediatrician and counselors to write notes to the judge. I even withheld visitation because I refused. <P>One night, my then H and the OW came to my house looking for me and the kids. I remember hiding and when they drove away whisking the kids into the car. I was so distraught I drove around and called my best friend and didn't even know where I was. My neighbors "snuck" me back home after police left my house, it was a nightmare.<P>I hated the OW from the day I found out about her. My ex called me while they were having s*x and I had to listen to that, well of course, I hung up when I figured it out, but still very cruel.<P>She would come with him to pick the kids up and I made him park in the street. I would also throw up every time I saw them together. For about 3 months. <P>One night, I was on my way out for a date (bad move, different story) and my daughter was dancing and stepped on a heater grill and sliced her foot open. I had to go to emergency and her dad met me. That night, I called looking to see if H left and OW and I had to talk on the phone for the first time. The only other time we talked, she threatened me for not letting the kids see their dad. She went on to tell me she loved my kids, it was very sick considering all that happened.<P>I got to court, and sure enough, no one would help me to protect my kids. I also knew, realistically, H would marry her since she put him up to a speedy divorce.<P>I prayed a lot. And I never hardly once prayed my whole life til this affair hit me like a ton of bricks. I looked for answers on the board. Someone, I don't even remember who, told me how similar her life was and how a few years later, her and OW actually got along.<P>I think you can only begin to think about getting along with her when you are with someone else. When you aren't "pining away" over your H so to speak. I know I could get flamed for that, but I'm just being honest. It was when I wasn't thinking of H so much that I began to deal with it. Realistically, you can heal and be ok with yourself and that would be best, I'm just saying since I dated too early that was part of how I did it , but I'm not saying it was right. <P>Little by little, OW started coming to the door, and since I couldn't make a scene it kept happening. She would answer the phone when I called to talk to my kids, and she would call me about things if she had questions.<P>I will give her this, she was VERY good to my kids, and at least I felt they were going to be fed and not injured. HOWEVER, she played a major part in destruction so how safe could they be??<P>I can't remember a single event that happened, when we just kept getting along, it was a series of small events. I'm not going to lie, it hurts like hell, still even to this day. I hate to think of them playing family with my kids this weekend while I'm home alone. But she always calls me if she's not sure of something, gives my kids all their baths, does all the cooking and as far as physically taking care of them, she does it, not their dad.<P>The thing is, if these affairs turn out to be long term, it is very unhealthy for the kids to feel tension between any of us. The counselors told me I had no choice but to get along with her. Since I worry about my kids, I researched online and asked lots of questions. It seems that the children who are brought up with the parents getting along, see their dad more and are more adjusted. Sometimes, when the exW and OW fight, the exH will chose OW over his family and the kids don't see their dad.<P>I felt I couldn't ever take any ounce of blame for my kids not seeing their dad, and that meant I had to find it in my heart to trust them, to love me enough , to love me more than her, and to not let her too close to them. It was very scary. But if they thought they hated her before they met her, that would have been from me poisoning their minds.<P>So one day, I just gave up. I don't remember how, or when but I know why. Because the professionals told me it would be best for my kids and the relationship wasn't ending. There are days I wonder if I were more bitter and restricted it more, could I have saved the marriage? But that might be holding my kids, or using my kids in an unfair way.<P>Deep down, I still hate her. But when the kids are around, her and I are ok. I'm a pretty nice person, but if I saw her stranded on the road, I might not stop.<P>Here's something interesting. 16 months later, my kids are saying she's changing. SHe yells at them now, and is "mean" according to them. NOW she has a ring and not out to impress my now exH. Also my exH HATES , cringes over, her son. So I fear that the children are all going to suffer.<P>Its easy for someone to say "you just have to accept it". Its VERY hard to accept it. I'd guess hardly any BS talk to OW or didn't fight against the visits, and many probably still are.<P>I honestly feel that the BS is "using" the events to bring OW around to shove her down their throats at times. I also feel the OW at times, use the children to get to our spouse. So what I see, is the children being used by everyone and that hurts.<P>As far as getting sick, or vomitting, I never vomitted like this before the affair. I have been doing it over a year now and my close friend just told me today that she thinks I have developed an eating disorder of some sort. I honestly am never hungry and the site of my ex , and even stress in my regular life, make me so sick I throw up. I don't do it on purpose, yet I can't control it. So I would say if that continues, you might want to look into it, as I might myself soon.<P>Since you asked me not to tell you to "just accept it", I can't do that! But I researched a lot, read a lot of books, and I even started writing a book, all to cope with your same question. Put your kids in counseling and tell their pediatrician everything.<P>Everything I've done has been for the kids, but I second guess it a lot. I give you a lot of credit for asking this question because it is very frightening, I know.<P>Like I said I'm not really terribly religious, but back then, I read the bible and prayed a lot and thats what helped me a lot too.<P>I probably didn't help as much as I'd like, but feel free to email me at MissDMBrown@aol.com anytime. <BR>Hugs, Dana<P><BR>

Lisa,<P>I know exactly how you feel, but unfortunately I was unable to stop ow being around my kids. However, I was legally able to stop my kids from visiting their dad when they were living together. Basically, if my ex was to get his weekend visitation, the ow had to go stay elsewhere for the weekend or my ex had to take the kids to a hotel. <P>It is amazing to me how these ws flaunt and admit their infidelity. Especially, while a divorce is in the works. Check the laws in your state and see if there is anything that can be done along the lines of harassment or something. If your stbx does marry her, there will probably be nothing you can do, but until then, check your options. I would suspect that you may be able to at least stop her from coming to your door. <P>I will not tell you just to accept it because I was unable to do that myself. It made me so mad that society thought it was just fine that my kids be exposed to ow while my ex was still married to me. Like Dana, I did realize that she was good to my kids. And eventually, she even thought I was a friend! YUCK! Fortunately, she wasn't so good to my ex and they broke up. Now, he is back home and even though things are not wonderful, the kids get to see their dad everyday. So, you never know what might happen in the end, but you have to try and protect yourself and your kids now. It is always best to know legally what you can and can't do so you can better handle the situation. I don't know if this helped or not, but good luck and take care.<P>Tulip<P>

Lisa,<P>OW picked up my kids today . I felt funny after replying to your post. So I paid closer attention to her today. She is getting more "disturbed" when my kids act up, now that she's engaged. I hear that once they get married, her true colors will really show.<BR> <BR>Tulip,<P>How did you find it in your heart to take him back after him exposing the kids to OW? Did they live together? What happened to the OW? Glad to hear someone else is trying to make it in recovery. Don't look at me, I'll never be there! <P>Hugs, Dana<P>

Hi Lisa,<P>I think that this is something that will actually get easier as time passes, but for now it might help to remember that the odds of them succeeding as a couple are probably not all that great.<P>I've not seen my STBX & the boy scout together for some time now. She knows I don't like him & would rather not see him. If he ever shows up at one of my sons functions & I'm uncomfortable about it, I'll just leave.<P>There is no reason for you to make peace with her. Your feelings about this are justified. <P>As for friends that accept what he's doing, I personlly don't want friends like that. As for family, well blood is thick & eventually the family accepts the new person. I know my STBX's family will eventually accept the OP and that really hurts & makes me feel a bit betrayed, but no one who's never been through this can understand how it makes us feel to be discarded like this.<P>Dana's right though. You have to trust your kids. They're smart and they understand what's really happening here. Just maintain a strong supportive realtionship with them and you'll do fine.<P>Take care...<P>------------------<BR>nick<P>it's only time that heals the pain <BR>and makes the sun come out again

Lisa,<P>To clarify something I was thinking of, after reading Nick's reply, NO, YOU DON"T have to accept her at all. But do try to put on your best in front of her. Don't let her see you down and look like your doing OK. And as the kids start to know her, just tolerate her as best you can, because this is the woman who may possibly spend a good portion of your kids growing up years, in their life. (lets hope that harley's theories are right and they all break up), but if not, the battling in front of the kids is not good. Me and OW somedays are ok. <P>Yesterday she was here picking up the kids for half hour or more. Other days, I glare her down when no one is looking. It really depends on my mood and I don't feel I owe her anything, matter of fact, she is darn lucky I've been good so far, because I could have made her and H's life miserable by letting them hear some recorded conversations I made with H off and on, (just for my own protection). <P>So you don't ever have to like her, just tolerate her while she's here, and you will get confused when some days she seems ok. I always remember who she really is and it puts me back in reality. But if you can act that way in front of your kids, according to my counselor and doctors, the kids will be healthier for it, AND your kids will at least maintain a relationship with their dad, no matter how it hurts you about OW< they need daddy in their life. <P>Hey, and if they break up one day, no one ever said we can't gloat about it! <P>Hugs, Dana<BR>

Hi Lisa,<P>I'm another who will NOT tell you just to accept it. It must be singularly the hardest thing that we have to bear through all this. Someone else with our children.<P>My ex-h's gf is someone I worked with 10 years ago, who he thought was a sl*t back then. Charming hey. He says she's "changed".!!! Anyway, they are together for better or worse, and she spends time with my children.<P>Dana's first response to you hit a chord with me. That is exactly how I felt/feel. I have always tried to put the children first. They love him and deserve to have their daddy in their lives, and he is quite a good father to them. I can't take that away from them, or him. It's just a shame that he can't put them first. My argument to him has always been that he has so much time when he doesn't have the children, can't he spend his allocated time with just the children. He says no. He wants the children in his life, and her. How does one argue with that. I can't. Besides, arguing gets me nowhere with him. He will just do whatever it is he wants to anyway.<P>Even tho I know this girl, I have not spoken to her (well except once when he had the ph on speaker phone during a very private conversation - charming), she hasn't been there when I've dropped the children off, and she hasn't been here when he's dropped them off.<P>I don't know what my reaction will be when we do see each other after so long. I hope I can maintain my composure and my dignity. I also have to say here that this is not the girl he had the affair with, so technically she had nothing to do with the breakup of my marriage. However, she started dating him before we divorced. Some thoughts I do have is that given we know each other, and used to work together, how the heck can she sleep in my old bed (he kept that, I wanted a new one!!), use my sheets and towels, use my kitchen implements and sit on my couch. I couldn't do that if I was in her shoes. Imagine getting into your bf's bed knowing that he had slept in it with his wife who you knew. Don't know how she can do that!!! Anyway, that's off the subject.<P>Like Dana says, I feel that if she's ok to them and they like her then at least that's better than someone who mistreats them and hates them.<P>I do know that she wants her own children, so maybe some pressure is being applied there. Who knows, but I only hope if they do decide to have more children that mine won't be forgotten.<P>There is no easy answer to this question. It gets to the very heart of us as mothers. It tears our souls out. But I've always told myself that if I can put the children first, then the answers are right in front of me. It might mean the BIGGEST sacrifice on my part, and might extend the pain of having to deal with all this, but that's what we do for our children right.? What I mean is that if it's good for my children that I accept his life with her, then that's what I must do. Not only is it good for the girls, but it's *good* (I say that lightly) for me too. It's less stressful, I don't spend all the visitation time worrying and wondering what they are all doing. I get on with my own life, and use it to catch up on some much needed rest and sleep-in time. I use the time positively for me. And then I look forward to when he brings them home.<P>This attitude has also enabled me to ask them questions about what they've done and where they've been, but without quizzing them about her. It has opened up the channels of communication. They come home quite happy to tell me where they've been and what they've done. I love that. I can discuss every aspect of their lives with them, because I've made it easy and free for them to do so. I'm not making my true feelings known to them.<BR>Yes it burns my butt when they say something about her, but the fact that they feel free to tell me is great. It's what I want, open and honest communication with my girls. God knows I didn't get that from their father!!!<P>Lisa, you'll find your own way of dealing with this. From your post you're a loving caring mother who only wants the best for her children. The answers are in front of you, like they were in front of me. Yep, it's more sacrifice on our part and prolongs the hurt, but we must put the children first.<P>You'll turn to your true friends and family. Also like you, I have trouble dealing with people who seem to find it so easy to accept what he has done. No-one has stood up to him and said what he did was wrong (except me of course!!!). I find that as time progresses, I'm making new friends, one's that have the same ideals and values as me. It's a side effect of divorce I guess, that we seem to lose our friends. I have got through this because of everyone here. I have done so many things wrong, but when I have, everyone has been here offering friendship and love. And that's what we'll do for you. Different opinions, thoughts, and ways will always find an answer. And the fact that we all understand what you are going through.<P>YOU don't have to accept HER, but you have to be seen to be doing so for the sake of the children. She will know exactly how you feel about her. Make no mistake about that.<BR>Can you ask your h to show a little respect and not have her with him when he picks up/drops off the children.?<P>And never forget, you're the children's mummy. They love you, and you will always be first. <P>big hugs for you, and take care of you. Keep that chin up, and keep doing what you're doing. You will find a way through this, never forget that. Someone said to me not too long ago when I was down, 'TOUGH TIMES DON'T LAST, BUT TOUGH PEOPLE DO"<P>You'll be fine.<P>love and hugs<P>Jo

Let me just say, "I love you guys!"<P>It's been kind of a down week and weekend - I'm sure I will swing back up again...with so much support from you all, I don't know how I possibly can stay down.<P>Dana, Nick, Jo, Tulip and others - just knowing others have gone through it, feel the same feelings, and manage to survive it all helps more than you know. I have always been so emotionally strong throughout my entire life - it is very hard to be so...humbled...by all this. It literally can bring me to my knees at times and turn me into a whimpering pile of emotional mush - I hate that!<P>The OW's divorce was final last Monday - so she's now a free agent...don't know what that will mean to this little drama that continues to unfold.<P>Easter was okay - the kids and I had a nice time and the weather was sunny for a change. I think the holidays really are a drag this year - they just serve as a reminder of one more "special occasion" that passed by without my marriage/family intact. I'm sure that's what brought on round number 42 of the rollercoaster.<P>Thanks for all the advice - I'm printing out this thread and sticking it in my journal to reread whenever I have to deal with OW and my kids. It'll be my mantra. (Along with..."this too shall pass." <P>I hope you all had a "hoppy" Easter as well.<P>Lisa

<BR>You don't have to tolerate the OP being around your children while the divorce is pending.<P>As part of our temporary orders, neither of us can take our daughter around members/friends of the opposite sex who are not related to us by either blood or marriage.<P>So, I was able to take her to our family reunion. I can take her to things with large crowds of strangers (shopping, special events, etc.). I can take her to play with her friends, so long as their daddies aren't around. But I can't take her to any of the meetings or activities that we previously did where we saw the people regularly.<P>All and all, I think it's pretty good. It shows which of us has the healthier, diversified social life. It shows which of us goes out of our way to provide for our daughter. It shows which of us has the stronger family relationship.<P>I think the restriction really bothers my stbx. For me, it's not that bad.<P>But from her Dad, I think she now knows every Disney movie that has ever been made....and then some.<P>~Amy

Lisa, <P>I'm glad you find so much peace here. When I first came here 16 months ago, I'd sit and just type all day. Mitzi was also doing the exact same thing and we went thru a lot of similarities back then. <P>I also was very strong emotionally before the affair. I don't look at myself at all anymore as strong. It was hard after going thru recovery with my h 6 years earlier, but I remember that I found myself again after all that, but it took about 2 years.<P>There are times when I feel happy to sign on and post , not because we want others to have pain like us, but I can relate that when someone else has been there and tells us they felt the same way, you somehow don't feel so "crazy" , so confused, or like your the only one out there feeling that way. <P>If you can get that order to keep OW away, I'd say go for it. But do it by taking the high road as much as possible, the only reason I say that, is just IF those two get married, you'll be dealing with her regarding your kids. And if they get married, I don't think you can stop them after that no matter what, but I'm not an attorney, so don't quote me on that! I just worry that by all of these issues, the kids suffer the most. However, maybe if you get that order, you'll get lucky and they'll break up before that ever becomes a further issue. <P>I just had the feeling from the start that my ex and OW were going to last past that 2 year mark. I always get the worst end of things so I rather plan on the worst.<P>You hang in there. Hugs, Dana<BR>