Does anyone have statistics or an educated guess as to the success rate of reconciliation after a divorce?<P>My X and I still love each other, but her flame went out due to us both getting in a rut. After fighting this problem for over two years, she finally ended it last week. We were separated for almost two years, but met almost every day to discuss (fight about) our dying relationship. I'm still crazy about her - she's not in love with me any longer. We're going to councling tomorrow for the first time and I just wondered what the chances were of getting back together.<P>Your thoughs would be appreciated. I'm dying thinking that she may never be in my life again....<BR>

God, Bill-in-AZ! I'm not sure I'm the one who should be writing to you here! <P>I do not know statistics, numbers, percentages or any of that stuff. But I do know that it is conceivable to reconcile a marriage. In my mind, there is one basic and easy prerequisite, though. Literally, both parties must commit to working on it and doing that hard work that it takes 110%, full steam ahead. BOTH parties must put in all their energies, and BOTH parties must be willing to put themself aside for the best interests of their mate. <P>I'll be bluntly honest with you though, Bill-in-AZ, this one basic, easy prerequisite is VERY HARD! VERY HARD INDEED!!! I know of which I speak, for I am writing to you now as someone who is trying to reconcile a marriage. For me, I have found it very hard--much harder than I imagined. I hope you will read some of my posts so you can see what I mean and what I've been through. <P>There is one major thing that jumps out at me from your post: "I'm still crazy about her - she's not in love with me any longer."--your words. Bill, as much as it may hurt you to hear this, if she is not in love with you any longer, and is not willing to or able to commit 100% to working full steam ahead on your marriage, then you can not save it alone. It may take two to get married, but it only takes one to get and stay divorced. <P>I have to tell you something, though. I HATE to say this. It breaks my heart. But I have to tell it to ya straight, and I want to give you a good-size dose of reality here. I think it's a positive sign that she's willing to go to a counselor together, but I think that's about all I would say about that. <P>Keep on writing. I don't want to scare ya or discourage ya, but I don't want to fill you with fairydust either. It's a lot harder than you think, but it can be done if BOTH parties are willing.<P><BR>CJ<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

Hi, Bill...sorry about that, really I am. I'm in the same situation, except I have been divorced now for 6 weeks, or so. ITs hard, I'm still 'crazy' about my XW, too. Listen to CJ, she knows...she does. Her H is blind, but I don't hold that against her, and neither should you, know what I mean? You seem pretty level headed, and that is good. Anger and pride are big LB behavior producing agents in my case, and you would do well to keep that in check, too, although I suspect that is not your case.<P>This is a long, slow, and mostly unrewarding process if you don't change its focus somewhat, Bill. Make this about you, not her. IT helps tremendously, it really does. In fact, I'd say that it was responsible for every success I have had. Not in a selfish way, mind you, that is DEFINITELY their job, no doubt there! You have to rediscover yourself as an independent entity first, and then a program of major personal growth is in order...whether you want to, or not...trust me, it will happen of its own accord.<P>I wish you the best, you had better mean it when you say you love her, Bill...this is going to be one helluva bumpy ride, friend. You are up to it, however, and will do fine...get to work, I'll 'talk' to you later.<BR><p>[This message has been edited by waiting_for_her (edited July 04, 2001).]

it seems you are moving in the right direction, all you can do is stay focused on yourself and take it oneday at a time, try to put the past behind you and wwork on today, here is a good site I have found and it may be helpful to you. <A HREF="http://www.divorceasfriends.com/" TARGET=_blank>http://www.divorceasfriends.com/</A> <BR>

Thanks to all of you for the input.<P>You know what's really killing me is that I just don't understand why, when I have changed all the things that caused the divorce (which I have), why she isn't willing to try again. I was selfish for the 10 years of our marriage and wanted her to conform to my boring lifestyle - but I understand how awful that was for her and had a real 'lightbulb' moment about six months ago. I really feel that it made a permanent change in who I am, but she's just not interested in trying anymore.<P>How can this be??<P>She still has a lot of love for me as a person, but just isn't "in love" with me anymore. I was shocked when she finalized the divorce. It just seems so simple to trust that a person has changed for the better and accept what happened in the past, then start looking at all the positives we can be for each other.<P>Help!!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bill_in_AZ:<BR><B>You know what's really killing me is that I just don't understand why, when I have changed all the things that caused the divorce (which I have), why she isn't willing to try again. I was selfish for the 10 years of our marriage and wanted her to conform to my boring lifestyle - but I understand how awful that was for her and had a real 'lightbulb' moment about six months ago. I really feel that it made a permanent change in who I am, but she's just not interested in trying anymore.<P>How can this be??</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Your wife can't read your mind, Bill. She can't see that lightbulb going off in your head. All she can see is a ten-year history, and it's only to be expected that she would be skeptical that your changes are permanent, regardless of what you believe.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>She still has a lot of love for me as a person, but just isn't "in love" with me anymore. I was shocked when she finalized the divorce. It just seems so simple to trust that a person has changed for the better and accept what happened in the past, then start looking at all the positives we can be for each other.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Trust is not simple <I>at all</I>. It's easy for the one holding the weapon (that is, the ability to hurt) to talk about trust, but the one taking the actual risk sees things rather differently.<P>And don't forget that healing doesn't happen instantly or automatically. Is it <I>better</I> to put the pain of the past behind? Yes. But it isn't <I>easy</I>, especially since it is important to retain the <I>lessons</I> of the past, and in this case your wife has learned a lesson about her own vulnerability.<BR>

Bill....it is so sad when we reach this stage of seperation and divorce, but as one going through the process now and almost done with it, I am in a spot where my soon-to-be-ex feels like if we can just finish the divorce process quickly now - we can get back together sooner. <P>When I first filed - he stalled the process in hopes I may change my mind. My attorney had to play hard ball to move us along, now he just feels lets get it done, go out and have a beer, then we can get back together...it is sad, there is absolutely no hope that that will ever happen. <P>Your situation may be different, but don't get your hopes up that you will reconcile. I think the fact that we 'won't' get back togther will hit him harder then the divorce itself. <P>Good luck, take care... this just sucks, but take care of yourself - that's most important.<P>J

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bill_in_AZ:<BR><B>You know what's really killing me is that I just don't understand why, when I have changed all the things that caused the divorce (which I have), why she isn't willing to try again. I was selfish for the 10 years of our marriage and wanted her to conform to my boring lifestyle - but I understand how awful that was for her and had a real 'lightbulb' moment about six months ago. I really feel that it made a permanent change in who I am, but she's just not interested in trying anymore.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I know how this could be, because I have been in your wife's shoes. For ten years she tried her darndest to let you know that you were hurting her, that she was lonely, that she needed you, and for ten years you told her (in effect) "Too bad". Slowly and insidiously, the love was withdrawn and withdrawn and overdrawn and overdrawn. Eventually even the love bank building was demolished! Now, you expect he to "give you another chance" and "try again" when she tried for TEN YEARS! YEARS, not months. I may very well be that you had a lightbulb experience six months ago that has changed you as a person--I'm not disputing that at all. But after ten years of slowly having the love sucked out of her, it's going to take a lot more than six months and some superficial changes to prove to her that you are serious and different.<P><B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>It just seems so simple to trust that a person has changed for the better and accept what happened in the past, then start looking at all the positives we can be for each other.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>BELIEVE YOU ME, it is NOT simple to trust someone who has slowly taken away your love over ten years. OH NO!!! NO, no, no, no, no!!!! In fact, it will probably be VERY HARD for her to trust you for a very long time. Speaking for myself, I do not feel like there is really any area that I can trust my H in right now, because at one time he had my FULL trust and he betrayed me--and I will never, ever, ever allow that to happen again. EVER! <P>Bill, it seems to me as if you wish that things could go back to the way they were, only with the lightbulb changes that you have made. However, I have a radical thought for you. It will never, ever be the way it was. What it can be, and might be, is something entirely new. It is conceivable that you may be able to make and entirely new love relationship with her--as the new person that you are. But do not make the mistake of thinking, "It could be just like it was if she would only trust me." That just is not going to happen.<P>My idea for you would be to start a new relationship. Date her again--as the new you. Start to meet her needs as the new you and keep in mind not to drain her love by lovebusting. The new you can do this, but it has to be something new--not returning to the old .<P>CJ<BR><P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

GEEEEZZZZZ, CJ, tell me how you REALLY feel! Don't hold back! Just kidding - thanks for the blunt talk.<P>I'm pretty sure it's gone to far - you're probably right. I wasn't, however, expecting everything to be the same as it used to be. I finally realize my shortcomings (too late) but I don't expect her to give me another chance to demonstrate that I really have changed.<P>We drove to the counselor together today (our first session), and she yelled and screamed in the car both there and on the way back to her place. She justifiably has tremendous anger and resentment toward me for not being there for her emotionally throughout our marriage.<P>I printed out most everything from the MB site and gave it to her to read. She was less then thrilled that 'here I go again trying yet another angle to get her back'. She insists she just needs space and time to get her feet back on the ground. I guess I've failed in that area too. I just keep thinking that something will cause her to have a lightbulb moment and at least give it another shot.<P>She called after I left her place and left a message on my answering machine saying that she appreciated my understanding and thoughtful ways today.<P>Guess I'll just leave her alone now...It's in God's hands now.

Sometimes I think us women, who have finally withdrawn from husbands who have neglected our needs for a long, long time, need to do our own Plan B before we can (maybe, hopefully) consider engaging in Plan A again.<P>See, I think we've been doing Plan A for years and years and have been snubbed for our efforts for so long that we finally reach the end of our rope. Then we need to switch to Plan B in order to salvage whatever is left of our own self esteem and any love or respect (if any) that we may have for our spouses. Unfortunately, this is usually the time when the neglectful spouse 'wakes up' and decides to do a Plan A him or herself, but what they don't realize is that we've already done our Plan A, sometimes for years, and are no longer interested, at least not now.<P>Bill, if you neglected her needs for 10 years, and she 'Plan A'd' all that time, then I think you should be prepared to do at least as much as she did. If you aren't willing to do that, and she was, think about what that really means as far as your committment to your marriage is concerned. If you truly love her as much as you say you do, you should be prepared to 'go the distance', just like she has been doing for the past 10 years. That could very well be the only thing that might bring her back to you. Above all, be honest with yourself about what you are willing to do and how far you are willing to go.

Have you read <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum31/HTML/002650.html" TARGET=_blank> Frank's post</A>? Just click on this link and read it... amazing stuff!!

Thanks, Ava, for your reply. I am fully prepared and committed to 'go the distance' with her, but what exactly do you consider 'going the distance'? How can I pay her back for 10 years of doing things my way for the most part?<P>Also, the bigger problem is that she has absolutely zero interest in trying to reconcile at this time. How can I show her how good it could be when she's in that mode?<P>I really screwed up, huh? It cost me the most special person I've ever known...<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bill_in_AZ:<BR><B>GEEEEZZZZZ, CJ, tell me how you REALLY feel! Don't hold back! Just kidding - thanks for the blunt talk.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Okay, Bill-in-AZ, I will!! There's not too much you can depend on this day and age, but here's one--I will tell it to you like it is. I don't want to build false hope, but I do want you to understand a little too. BTW, good point, though, I really gave it to you bluntly, didn't I (sheepish grin). <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>I'm pretty sure it's gone to far - you're probably right... We drove to the counselor together today (our first session), and she yelled and screamed in the car both there and on the way back to her place. She justifiably has tremendous anger and resentment toward me for not being there for her emotionally throughout our marriage.</B>[QUOTE]<P><BR>Okay, Bill, do you want it sweet or true? The true part would be...well...yes, she justifiably has tremendous anger and resentment toward you. I know that I am personally filled with lots of anger toward my H, because I needed him for years, and he blew me off. Now he wants "a second chance" when his second chance was in 1988 or so! heehee. It's really hard for a woman to try everything she can think of to get her man's love and attention and be turned down so many times that eventually she quits trying. It's like a heart callous. Eventually, the callous is so thick and tough, that she can't even feel anymore--except maybe the anger. So, that's the true part. <P>The sweet part is that there may be hope. It is conceivable that she needs you to let her rage a bit--she's probably trying to see how you will react. And it will be a great relief if she is able to show the "ugly" emotions and you do not have a melt-down. If you can keep your head, don't accept verbal abuse but let her express anything in an appropriate way, and then express comfort and understanding, maybe you can soften the callous. You know a callous is created by regular and repeated friction--and callouses can be softened by stopping the friction and applying some soothing ointments and stuff.<BR> <P>[QUOTE]<B>I printed out most everything from the MB site and gave it to her to read. She was less then thrilled that 'here I go again trying yet another angle to get her back'. She insists she just needs space and time to get her feet back on the ground. I guess I've failed in that area too. I just keep thinking that something will cause her to have a lightbulb moment and at least give it another shot.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Bill, this is a little like an alcoholic here. You have heard of AA, right? Well, any sober, right-minded person would say that excessive, addictive drinking is bad for you, harmful and you should stop. But the addicted person doesn't see it that way. Drinking is good and stops the pain. Now, the sober person can talk until he/she is blue in the face, quoting all kinds of reason and logic and science to the addict, but until the addict sees it for themself and wants to stop for themself, all the forcing and talking and figures in the world WILL NOT WORK. Bill, you are the sober person and she is the alcoholic. You can quote her all the facts and figures and objective stuff you want--relationship books, theories, and principals--but until she it for herself and wants to reconcile for herself, all the forcing and talking and figures in the world WILL NOT WORK. <P>Now, I'm not saying you should have no contact for the next month or something. I'm just saying, stop trying to FORCE the issue. Go back to the days when you two were friends--friends!! Be there for her on days when she is tired. Help her out without expecting anything. Be fun!! Joke and play. Know what I mean? Stay up late watching scary movies under a blanket--and when it's over go home like a friend would without trying to force a "relationship discussion". This is hard, I KNOW, because this time, I'm on your side--I am dying to have a plan and know where I'm headed and what will happen. (Sigh) Anyway, be FRIENDS. <P>Just telling it like it is!<P>CJ<P><BR>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.<P>[This message has been edited by FaithfulWife (edited July 06, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by FaithfulWife (edited July 06, 2001).]