I'll give you my timeline (to give you an age idea my stxw and I are both in our late 20's, we don't have any children, and we were married for two years before the story below happened:<p>11/17/01- W told me that she thinks we are having problems relating to a lack of spark/chemistry (honestly and truly, it was completely out of the blue, even she admitted it and told me that she thought we had a perfect marriage until 10/01), AND that she kissed somebody that she worked with
11-17-11/30- Go to counseling a few times
12/1/01- W says that after all of our discussion and talking about our problems, she realizes that our marriage is beyond repair, and says she wants to move out
12/10/01- W moves into parents' house
12/13/01- Sign separation agreement
12/24/01- W moves into her own apartment (She asks me what is going on in my life and I tell her that I am no longer interested in talking to her unless she is interested in talking about our relationship)
1/01- W puts nail in the coffin of our marriage by selling engagement ring to help pay for new apt. expenses<p>
As far as I know, I am fairly confident she does not continue to have a relationship with the co-worker she kissed. I listed the above timeline to give you an indication of just how fast things progressed. I felt like I was in a boxing match agianst Mike Tyson and the hits kept coming so fast, I felt punch drunk.<p>I don't speak to my stbxw any longer. The last time we spoke was about a month ago and she told me how sorry she was, she thanked me for my maturity through this whole situation and said that she realized she may be a just a little insane and that this was really a "me" (meaning her) issue.<p>Whew!! Well, after all the throat clearing, here comes the real question. A few months ago I met a friend of a friend, I liked her quite a bit and a few weeks back I asked her out.<p>Bottom line is that things have been going really well with this woman I am presently dating. The questions I have are as follows: <p>Is it too soon to be in a relationship? <p>Must all post divorce/separation relationships be of the rebound/fling nature?<p>Am I fooling this woman into thinking that I can give her more than I possibly can at this stage in my life?<p>Looking for some words of wisdom from people who may have been in my shoes before<p>Thanks

Never mind<p>[ April 19, 2002: Message edited by: I LuvNprotect ME ]</p>

If you think that there is a possibility of reconciling than you should not be dating. However, if the marriage is beyond repair, than I do not see anything wrong with dating as long as the woman knows that you are still not divorced. I am sure your wife is doing her thing. That is probably why she moved into her own apartment. However, don't get serious with any one woman until a year after the divorce. Best wishes and know that life can good with or without your wife.

Oh my gosh max, thanks for pointing out a HUGE thing I missed! I didn't realize he wasn't divorced!<p>Scratch what I said! its not over until its over. What is holding up the divorce? you or W. I do not believe in dating until divorce is final regardless.

The bottom line is that you need to read His Needs Her Needs by Harley and the info. on this site. <p>Obviously you both had trouble meeting each other's needs in the marriage and the spark left. No this in no way measn you can't get it back. However, if you are determined to end your current marriage, you are fairly sure to have this scenerio repeated - which I'm sure you don't want - if you don't figure out what went wrong with your marriage and learn how to fix it.<p>The initiatl infatuation fades as you well know and you have to learn the skills to keep the love alive so that you can affair proof your marriage and be happy in the marriage.<p>The MB prinicples can help you do that - with your current marriage or wit hthe next one.<p>This new person is probably a rebound person and will not last until you have healed yourself. The divorce books and counselors say wait at least a year after divorce to get into a relationshp because you need time to grieve over the loss of the marriage. And if you don't think you need to grieve you are probably suppressing the emotion which will come out sooner or later.<p>Maybe you're with this new person because these new infatuation feelsing mask the pain. But for your health, you need closure with the first marriage before starting the new relationship. Otherwise you are not being fair to YOU or the new person.<p>Does this make sense? Do some reading and possibly some counseling to help you through this. It's not an easy time for you right now. But get a support system for yourself, do some reading and decide whether you want to save your marriage, and if not, then work one yourself so that any future relationship will be successful.<p>K

Chuckle,<p>Yeah, all of it was moving too fast.<p>I know you don't want to hear this, but...<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>12/24/01- W moves into her own apartment (She asks me what is going on in my life and I tell her that I am no longer interested in talking to her unless she is interested in talking about our relationship)<hr></blockquote><p>OK, you didn't know what you were doing. We've all been in that situation - like a rabbit in the headlights. But, actually, according to some wise folks (Harley's) and my own experience, the one thing you DON'T want to talk about in this situation is the relationship. You want her to start having fun with you again. Talking about your marriage is not fun. Save the relationship talk for a bit later.<p>It sounds like she is ready for a reconciliation.<p>The other woman in the picture is going to cause a nightmare down the road. You are still married. Take care of that first. It's not fair to your wife, nor to the other woman, nor healthy for yourself to begin another relationship now. You said "a few months ago" you met her. Give your timeline, there are only a few months since your W moved out. Was this a "rebound" thing - something you needed to boost your self-esteem - to soothe your wounded pride? Think carefully about it, you may have to live a long time with the choices you make now. <p>FYI, my wife has long refused to wear engagement ring. I once suggested that she sell it to pay the phone bill from calling OM in europe. Maybe that was just me being a pain. As it turns out, she took my checkbook, forged my name to a check to pay the phone bill ($1400). Water under the bridge now...<p>Just because your W sold the ring doesn't mean it's over. She was acting impulsively. She regrets the whole thing. Believe me, brother, it is well worth getting together with her and just listening. You have nothing to lose by doing that. If she wants to talk about what happened, good. If she just wants to have fun with you, better. She'll get around to explaining herself later. I know it hurts. It hurts your pride. It hurts your heart (if you loved her). But you won't regret giving her another chance.<p>-AD

This is the original topic starter, responding under a new name (I don't know my other password, at home, not at work)<p>Maybe I'm just trying to defend my position, but I have ben in fairly intense counseling for five months. All this counseling has made me realize how many things I sacrificed in my life (always had to go to sleep early, whenever I suggested we do anything fun my wife would not want to do it, often held feelings back, my stbxw never made any real effort to ingratiate herself to most of my family and friends) in the name of a "happy" marriage. I met my wife at 22 there was a lot of stuff I gave up that I see now, that I should not have. In fact looking at my history with my wife, I now realize that my wife and I talked about getting married before I ever thought on my own if I actually wanted to marry her.<p>Is this forum only for people that are interesting in maintaining their Marriage (I guess I should have figured that from the site name)? Based on all the things I gave up, I realize that I don't have any interest in maintaining my marriage with my wife, there is far too much water under the bridge here.<p>So I guess a corallory is, "Is it too soon to start a relationship, if both myself and my wife have no interest in reconciliation, and I have already been more open in my relationship with this new woman in the first few weeks than I was during the first six months with my wife, and the new relationship just feels so right?"

Sorry, one last point. In response to the "why aren't we divorced?" question <p>Our divorce is going to be based on a legal separation. In the state where I live you must be separated for six months before filing for a divorce. If we could file for divorce today, we would both gladly agree to do it right now.

new happy,<p>Sorry if I sounded judgmental.<p>Do whatever seems to make you happy. You asked and I gave my honest opinion (as did others). Apparently, that's not what you wanted.<p>I completely understand about giving up stuff. Whatever you gave up, I think I could top it. That's just part of marriage. Of course, it sounds like both you and I went too far with giving things up. You have accumulated resentments against your wife for all the things you gave up that you didn't want to give up. This is where Harley's "Policy of Joint Agreement" comes in. By only doing things you wholeheartedly agree to, you avoid the accumulation of resentments. I wish I knew how to apply that. Have you read about boundaries? (not on this site, but you can find a book anywhere). I think the boundary model works better for non-cooperating spouces (or, in other words, for those who do not enthusiastically agree to apply to POJA).<p>If you've had five months of counseling - from a competent counselor, there may not be much we can offer here. Still, there are many voices and some who will support your current direction. If nothing else, try to figure out how to do it better the next time. Don't assume that there is something wrong with your wife. Probably, as in most situations, both of you contributed to the problems. Aside from the forum, there is a lot of good material on this site. Read the "basic concepts" etc. You have nothing to lose but a little of your time - and a lot to gain. If you buy into the concept of the "love bank", you might can accept that even though you don't feel love right now, it can be rebuilt.<p>If you decide to hold back on the new relationship, I think it would give you time to heal - which you certainly need - so you won't enter a new relationship with a lot of baggage.<p>Finally... Remember, my life is all messed up and I have no standing to advise anybody.<p>-AD<p>[ April 21, 2002: Message edited by: AbandonedDad ]</p>

Date, go out and have fun,<p> do not so so with the intention of getting married again. . . . for a long time. . . <p>the reason i say this is that you are still young, its been a legalized going steady, and there are no children. . .<p>and you have been in therapy for a short while. . . <p>what would be important here is to continue therapy whiule you date such that you can learn
to keep perspective on the learning you need to be doing.<p>your mistake was marrying the first person without even knowingher or yourself. . . <p> learn to know yourself before making any permanent decisions. dating is secondary to this point, but can support it. <p>wiftty

ditto what sWIFTTy said. I was married for a short time when I was your age. Got married again 6 yrs after that, and am now divorced AGAIN. <p>Finally, finally, after two failed marriages I'm learning how not to glom onto the first person that comes along--how to enjoy my life "alone" in the company of good friends and family, etc. <p>You sound like myself 15 yrs ago. It would not kill you to spend some time on your own. Go ahead and date--just don't get sucked into the infatuation. It is nothing to base something as major as marriage upon.

I just wanted to respond to your question about dating someone while you are going through your divorce. I recently got out of a relationship where the guy I was dating was going through a messy divorce. His wife cheated on him with someone she worked with. We also worked together. When we first started dating it was so wonderful...the best relationship I had ever been in. He was so open and it allowed me to open myself up to him more than I had with anyone before. However, as soon as his divorce was final he began acting so strange. A few months later he broke up with me saying that we were in two different places in our lives. So, a few months before I was the best thing that ever happened to him and he would never hurt me and now I was the dumpee. I understand his position...he says he is not sure if he will ever be able to trust again and that I made him so happy it scared him...however, it has taken me almost 6 months to get over this and I still wonder how I ever let myself get into that situation. I don't know if it is over for good..but it is over for now and it still hurts. So before you get deeply involved with someone please make sure you are ready because you could truly devastate her if you are not.