Just a quick update. <p>I received papers yesterday requesting tax records, bank statements, and profit sharing balances be provided to his lawyer by Monday. That didn't give me any time but I have everthing kind of handy.<p>Looks like he is not planning on staying with the arrangement we reached to each keep what we had in our savings and retirement plans. He still says he is argeeing but why does his lawyer need all the statements then??? SO he can screw me too.. That;s the answer. A friend of mine told me this morning that the courts would be fair and that H's adultry and abandonment should help me but that if H got half my retirement money, I needed to look at it as not losing something that was solely mine. I love this friend and I truly think they were trying to help and I did feel some better but my big gripe is:<p>OK retirement money is "our money" not "my money" even though he nor I ever contributed one dime ( mine was completely company paid and is about 6 times as much as H's is).<p>If this is "our money", it was being saved for "our retirement". Since H decided that he didn't want to be 1/2 of "us" anymore, what makes it right for him to get that money. We both worked and we both made about the same money annually. I just had a better retirement package from my employer ( hey there are perks for working for your Dad)<p>This was supposed to be short so I;ll shut up now. It just ticks me off that he can walk away from our future but he gets access to money that was being set aside for "our" future. Not his and his OW. <p>We go to court on Tuesday for a status conference. That is when I should find out my final divorce date.<p>
Lynn

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by peoplepleaser:
<strong>...A friend of mine told me this morning that the courts would be fair and that H's adultry and abandonment should help me.<p>...Since H decided that he didn't want to be 1/2 of "us" anymore, what makes it right for him to get that money.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>What makes it right? What makes it RIGHT!? You're joking, aren't you?<p>You're betrayed by the one person above all others that you should have been able to depend on, in ways that make monetary issues look trivial, and you actually expect to find something fair or just or right in one peripheral aspect of the situation?<p>It doesn't work like that. Of all the people involved in your situation, who on earth do you think gives a ****** **** about what's right? Your husband? What's one more betrayal? The lawyers? It's their job to destroy the opposing party, not lobby for truth and justice! The courts? Hey, all they care about is force-fitting your case into some wacky distortion of a Procrustean law. Why should a judge worry about you when he's got more important things to worry about - things like clearing his docket.<p>No, the divorce process is just a legal form of rape and robbery. If someone attacks you on the street, you don't ask whether there's anything right about what's happening to you. You just try to survive.<p>Oh, and another thing: in my state, the courts are legally prohibited from taking things like adultery and abandonment into consideration.<p>[ May 10, 2002: Message edited by: GnomeDePlume ]</p>

I guess that's my point. Nobody gives a rip about me, especially my H or either of the lawyers. It's just a game to them, who comes out best. This sucks. I don't even give a damn about the money really. It's the principal that he broke my heart and my spirit and he will be rewarded for it just because I was a good provider during our marriage. <p>I don't think the judge will care on way or another what H has done. They see too much of it. My friend was just trying to make me see that if H got 1/2 of the money, I wasn't really losing anything that was "mine" to start with. <p>I wasn't trying to say it was right or wrong. Perhaps a poor choice of words. I don't expect to be "made whole" and justified during this process. Yes I was faithful, a good wife, mother and provider and my H was a cheater and a lier. The knowledge I have of that is enough for me. I don't have to have any justification by having a judge say, BAD BOY!!! I just hate that he suffers no consequence for his actions. Well, I can tell you one thing. He will regret the day he walked away from our household. Maybe not now, but I know he will. It doesn't make me happy because I truly want him to be happy Knowledge that one day the fog will lift and the guilt and regret will set in doesn't provide me any satisfaction. It just makes me grieve even more for what he threw away.<p>I haven't found one fair or good thing about the whole legal Bull*** system. It's just stuff to them. This was my life and my future. <p>Lynn

1) because the money was earned as a couple. .
2) i see you now know how the typical H who is the bread winner feels. . .
3) the worst part is not the split equally of money, but the unequal split of time for the kids. . . why should the money be split evenly and not the kid's time?<p>4) split the retirement, and be very agreeable to that, and then make sure he has NO claims to any future benefits or retirement monies. . .<p>wiftty

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by peoplepleaser:
<strong>...This sucks. I don't even give a damn about the money really. It's the principal that he broke my heart and my spirit and he will be rewarded for it just because I was a good provider during our marriage.<p>...I don't expect to be "made whole" and justified during this process. Yes I was faithful, a good wife, mother and provider and my H was a cheater and a lier. The knowledge I have of that is enough for me.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Yeah. I don't actually begrudge my wife a penny that she's getting from me, but being violated by the legal system really sticks in my craw. My wife abandoned not only me, but also all of our mutual friends, some of whom were more her friends than mine; and not one of them can understand why she should get anything at all from me. Through twelve years of marriage I supported my wife, first through physical rehabilitation from a condition that prevented her from pursuing her chosen career, and then while she chose to spend her time working out and taking classes and visiting with her mother instead of earning income. I supported her while she went through her graduate degree program, and then while she worked part-time so that she could spent the rest of her time (hours every day) working out and taking classes. Then when I asked her to invest a little more in our relationship she decided to leave instead.<p>My wife is an intelligent and talented person with a professional degree. She is perfectly capable of supporting herself, and last I heard she was earning sufficient income to do so. We have no children, and my wife has no responsibilities to anyone except herself. But all the courts care about is that I make more money than my wife did, and they seem to consider it their duty to rectify that disparity, even if it costs me my home and my credit rating. As I see it, by awarding my wife income that she doesn't need and hasn't earned, the courts are validating my wife's fog-fabricated grievances against me. (Why would the courts award her this income if she didn't deserve it as "punitive damages"?) And by enabling her to live a lifestyle beyond her self-supporting means, the courts are delaying her recognition of the consequences for her choices. In short, the courts are harming both of us!<p>I'm mad as h*** and I'm just going to keep taking it again and again because there's not a d*** thing I can do about it.<p>And despite all of this, I would far, far rather be me than my wife. I know who I am and who I was. Whatever is done to me, I still have that and I wouldn't trade my integrity for anything.<p>It is enough. It will have to be.

My H works 3rd shift because he wants to. Not because that's all he could do. He was offered a supervisors job on 1st shift multiple times but instead of thinking how nice it would be to have the extra time with the family, he took the easy way out. He says too much BS happens on 1st shift and he liked being able to hide away in the plant at night, not having to put forth too much effort. I'm not knocking him because he was a good worker, always on time, never laid out ( of course at the end of the marriage he was screwing around with OW at work). <p>If I understand what you are saying by dividing the kid's time, (correct me if I'm wrong) you're implying that we should have 50/50 custody. Well, if he worked a shift that allowed him to be a custodial parent, things might be different. When he lost his job due to layoff last year after 16 years at the same place, that was the perfect time to look for something which better suited being a father. As long as our kids were alive, they haven't known what it was like to have weekends with Dad, or family vacations or Dad come to daytime events at school,etc. He chose to work 3rd shifts including weekends so he could have the days off during the week. He worked or slept every weekend. Did he spend time with the kids on his days off? No, He took them to his mom as fast as he could. <p>Now I'm not saying that he wasn't a good Dad. I'm just saying he never made any sacrifice in his life or his schedule to be there for them. In 17 years of marriage, he NEVER , not one time missed work to stay with a sick child, to see a child sing in Church, to take one to the doctor, etc. <p>I'm not keeping his kids from him. If you know anything about me, you'd know I allow him to take them to school which means I have to deal with him daily even though I have no desire to see him or talk to him anymore. Once again, he and his OW like thier 3rd shift, convienent lifestyle. I'm not discounting anyone who works 3rd. But my H does it because he takes the path of least resistence. Unfortunately the kids don't get to have a normal relationship him because of it. That is his choice, not mine.<p>If I've missed the point, please explain.<p>As far as being friendly and just handing my H $75,000, forget it. If he wants to play hardball, I'll play. I've not said anything about him breaking the court order and having GF sleep over while kids are with him. I haven't threatened to sell house and move kids away making it harder for him to see them. I let him know about every event going on in their lives. I make sure to keep his family in the loop so they aren't left out. I want what is best for my kids which is a healthy relationship with both of us.<p>My point still is consequences. If the roles were reversed, I would never be able to live with myself if I screwed around, left him barely scraping by financially with 2 small children, and then proceeded to make sure I got as much financially from him as I could. At some point I think the reality that I screwed up and deserved to suffer a little would have to sink in. Then again, this is a not a rational thinking person we are talking about. <p>No, I will not just give up and live with it. I always have and I'm sick of it. I don't have a selfish bone in me, at least I didn't until his betrayal changed my entire perspective on how I trust people. Now it seems I'm having to do whatever I can to protect myself and my kids. Our agreement to keep what we had was fair. I also agreed to keep the house and car payments, (very little equity in the house due to 2nd mortage when we bought a truck he wanted). He basically can walk away only paying child support. I didn't ask for alimony and said he could keep both the boats, his truck, land we owned , tractor etc that were paid off. He stood to walk away from 17 years with me for a flat $130 a week in child support taking everything he wanted that wasn't mortaged. I'm the one paying the $1200 mortage, $325 car payment, raising the kids, feeding the animals, etc, etc, etc.......<p>Sorry, I don't agree. He deserves worse than what he is getting.<p>PP

As far as I'm concerned, the legal system was the second major betrayal in my divorce.<p>I out-earned my husband by 200 - 300 % per year, was responsible for the household and kids, and did all the investing. He left us for an OW right after I had given birth to child #2, proceded to not see our baby for two years, while I paid the mortgage on our house for the entire three year separation. <p>What did he get? Half of everything, per the community property laws. Minimal child support since I out-earn him. And half the appreciation on our house, even though he paid not one dime for three years (we had lived there only four months when he left). He bought himself a new house and a BMW convertible. Financially speaking, abandoning the family and financial commitments was the smartest thing he could have done in this no fault, community property state!<p>Aside from these periodic rants, I have learned that I must let justice come from the highest authority. No one on earth cares.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Financially speaking, abandoning the family and financial commitments was the smartest thing he could have done in this no fault, community property state!<hr></blockquote><p>I don't live in a community property state, I was a SAHM when my H left and he was earning fairly close to six figures, but for him as well, abandoning the family and the financial commitments benefited him greatly financially. He hasn't worked in two years, drives a brand new 30,000+ car, and our kids qualify for free lunch at school. I am d*** sick of having to tell them that no, I can not afford their field trips, I can not afford to let them do any sports, I can barely keep them fed and housed, and I may not be able to even do that for long. <p>Many times abandonment is more about what will benefit them financially than anything else. My H almost came right out and said so, when he said that he could not separate his feelings about me from his feelings about our financial situation. It is not just chance that so many men leave, as my H did, right after a child starts college - it has nothing to do with empty nest - in reality it is mostly about not wanting to pay any more for college than they absolutely have to.

PP<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> If I understand what you are saying by dividing the kid's time, (correct me if I'm wrong) you're implying that we should have 50/50 custody. <hr></blockquote><p>What i am saying is that the courts should have an increasing scale as a standard such that when the kids get to be somewhere between 14-16, the responsible Dad has the choice of having them up to 50/50. . . . and that the Mom must learn to share as they get older. . . . some moms get the notion that the dad should have the minimum because they have boobs. . . . well, there is a role model that all kids need from a father and spending time with the dad . . .<p>so that is the point. . . .<p>money? she got more than 6 figures, and the first thing she did is go and buy a $40K new
fully loaded Eddie Bauer expedition, and then wanted to apply for financial aid for a $6,000 / tuition. . . . when we make together in the six figures. . . .<p>the concept of entitlement and free rides instead of earning it ourselves is one that i am not passing on to our kids. . . . . . she is trying, but that is not a good learning point.<p>wiftty

9am Eastern Standard time tomorrow I'll be in court to find out if my H and I can convince our lawyers to present the agreement we came too. My STBX says he still wants to go by the argrement but there is a possibility, ok a probability, that he is just stringing me along. The deal is very fair to him financially right now but he does stand to lose long term retirement benefits of mine since my account significantly exceeded his. I've accepted whatever happens, happens. We had a storm here today and the most beautiful rainbow. Could see all the colors one by one and the arch was complete. Wow! God is Good, ALL THE TIME.......<p>Thoughts and prayers would be greatly appreciated. Cyber hugs wouldn't be too bad either and Bill, you don't have to leave the spaces!!! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>May God Bless us all and our families.<p>Lynn

PP,
In Ohio, I filled out a form listing all my assets and liabilities(it was required by law according to my attorney) but my x never did and then tried to sandbag how much she earned, reporting $20000 instead of $28000. <p>Her lawyer then called mine and wanted info on how much my life insurance was worth.<p>It doesn't sound like he wants whatever agreement you had before and will probably just go after half. <p>My x had a small pension so I agreed not to go after it. In the papers, her lawyer adds it to my pension and then asked for half of that total. I told them to pound sand. <p>I was able to talk her into taking less because the stock market was doing so badly. The portion of my pension they did attach, was anchored till 5 yrs after I left the companies employeement. She can't touch the money until Nov 93. Maybe the stock will crash by them!

Wow peoplepleaser!
You sound so strong and determined and focused. I hope you get what you want in the end... As for your H "not having any consequences," believe me, they are in motion baby... whether they are apparent to you right now or not, they are in motion. God forgives our mistakes, but consequences do not. What goes around comes around sooner or later.<p>But not to worry your pretty little head, it sounds like you are doing right by your kids--as you always have. They will always remember their mom being involved in their daily lives and important events and their dad being absent. Hang in there! ((HUGS)) (((((PRAYERS)))))

Some of you should be grateful you don't live in PA, where "equitable distribution" could mean something worse than 50/50. It's based on economic circumstances alone. No wonder some people are so smug going into a divorce. There's nothing fair in the whole picture.<p>- Tom

August 28, 2:00pm. That's when this will legally be over. The lawyers are going to get together before then and come up with a settlement agreement. <p>Seems strange that my H and I had an agreement that we both could live with and the judge asked if there was an agreement, both lawyers quickly said "NO". My H and I just sort of looked at each other in amazement. Who's running this show anyway??<p>H called this morning before I left for court to tell me he bought a Toyota 4runner yesterday. This from a man who hasn't had a car payment in 11 years and basically said he would never pay more than $10K for a vehichle. It is very out of character for him and so sudden. I think his GF wanted to show the judge that H had his income tied up with existing bills. I know him better than that and he would not have made this decision alone. The transmission in his truck went out again (I had it rebuilt last year) so this was his reasoning for buying another vehicle. He says he was just so upset that he couldn't come see the kids. (duh, his visitation isn't until this weekend and truck could have been fixed by then)<p>Wonder why all those years he was cheating, I couldn't see through his lies but today it was clear as a bell to me that he wasn't being completely honest about his reasons. He never really liked Toyota's, strange timing, very strange......<p>Anyway, thanks to all of you who prayed for me or jsut wished me well with your support. It was not that bad really. H and I chit-chatted before the judge came in and his lawyer looked at me and said " you two seem really congenial". I just said, we are good freinds. He looked at me funny and I said, we have 2 beautiful children together, we can't help but be friends.....( My H just nodded his head and smiled) <p>That was the only time I even teared up all day until writing this now. I think it bugged H's lawyer because his reputation is one of fighting, back-stabbing, etc. <p>I'm back at work and breaking the rules by posting now. Will catch up later tonight after ball practice ( playoffs next week!!!!) <p>Thanks again. <p>PP