Tom,

I understand what you are saying (and have always said re the mess your family is in.

Having been thre and still embroiled, I have had to find another way of doing things.
That is all I am trying to have you think about.

Your X will never change. Accept this.
Your X will always twist, turn and manipulate to let you look bad.
She will always try to undermine you as a parent.
She will always try to push your buttons so that you react to escalate the conflict or whatever...then she can turn around and tell all and sundry how difficult you are to deal with.

Believe me I HAVE BEEN THIS ROUTE.

For your sanity, it will be helpful for you to find a different way....can you talk to a therapist?
a neutral friend...who can steer you not to escalate things but to get you and your children the interaction you all need?

PLEASE GET HELP....for both your and your children's sake. You have to find a way that does not upset you all the time.

Tom, I speak from nearly four years of experience...and believe me, it does not get easier....just different...for my emotional survival.

Take care

Willbok,

thank you for your response. . . .

I have a hard time with people who aren't emotionally honest or thoughtful. I have a hard time with people who want to be wanted. . . .

i have a hard time with black and white people.
I have a hard time with people who give up as soon as they find something hard or unfamiliar.

I have a hard time with someone who always "tries" to make me look bad when i do normal parental activities. . . .

i had a hard time with a spouse who was in competition with me for the kids. . . parenting is not a competitive activity. . . .

I have a hard time with someone who always changes her mind to suit the situation. . .

I have a hard time with uncooperative people who lack common courtesy, but demand it from me.

i try not to interact, but email interaction doesn't get a response either. . ..

wiftty

Hi Tom,
I understand all you have written. Each is a very valid and infuriating charasteristic and I have a hard time with all these things as well as well.

It is very difficult to fathom out how to deal with anyone as you describe....but I have been and still am in your shoes in dealing with a clone of your x. (especially as to all others they do come across as credible etc and make YOU and me the problem parent!)

The big issue is that it is not a competition for the children (in our eyes) but rather our ability to parent and also have a relationship with our children is what is constantly undermined.

Intellectually we can understand all of this as well as the triggers that cause all of this plus our own reaction.

But this will not really help you and your children in the short term anyway!

So....what to do for YOU that works better is all I am trying to communicate...that is the $1 000 000 question.

Therefore I can offer some things that have worked for me, but my children are older....somewhat. My youngest actually finally "gets it" in terms of her dad's undermining behaviour and insiduyous putdowns of me, his lies re arrangements etc and things are now good for her....

I can only help you by stating that it does not get better, until you can see your X as the A$$ she is and not get emotionally triggered, but deal with it all as "that is just the way it is and I cannot control anything but my actions and especially my REACTIONS.

Do not ever engage your X in a salvo of my way is right and you are to blame (she probably is, but that is not relevant to getting you what you want!)

Be very proactive in anything you plan re involvement with kids. Think about your next 10 steps and let X and kids know well in advance that this is what you want and will do.

That way there is no wiggling, no movement, no playing the kids off.

In my not so humble opinion, you will not be able to co operate and compromise with X. So...set your limits, communicate facts re arrangements, meetings etc in terms of your involvement with the kids and try not to react negatively.

Do not try to be get anyone to be rational ...it is a wasted effort.

Have you ver read anything about passive aggressive behaviour? You might want to look into this. It also might give you some answerws in how to deal with this scenario which you describe.

Can you get your kids into counselling?

Does your X undermine and at same time enable kids constantly? If so...get the kids help so that this cycle of dysfunction is not continued to the next generation.

Take care

WILLBOK,

i am really hitting home runs with my son right now, as i single handedly have changed his attitudes about school, grades, learning, et. . . with a great an indepth review with his teachers. . .

he is learning how to learn from me, and slowly learning that i can really help him with his studies by just showing him how to learn . . . he left here this weekend, and markedly improved his english paper, with just a few suggestions from me without my reading the book or his paper, and showing him how to study effectively. . . .

my parent teacher conference went real well without the X, even though she works there, because the teachers don't speak as freely to their peers. . . . and i am viewed as an outsider, so i go better / more honest responses. . . and i discussed them in detail, and in a way that makes sense to him. . . . .

now, he is doing great, after nearly flunking alot of midterms. . . . which is what my goal for parenting is about anyway. . . so i let him fall on his face by himself, and then show him how to pick himself up and learn correctly. . . .

now if i can only get across to daughter in the same way. . . .

understand, even though X drives me crazy, i try not to let that interfere with my parenting, and i have written a very thoughtful letter to her such that she can figure out, if she wants, i don't expect her to, how to communicate with me effectively. . . but i expect nothing. . . .

the problem with my daughter is that she believes that X is a god and knows everything, and daughter will defend concepts learned from x, such as rotating car tires, even though i don't rotate them. . . its very interesting to watch and discuss. . . . hard, but interesting.. . .

wiftty

Hey Wifft,

Maybe with your daughter, you could demonstrate the concept of opinions...

Rather than engage in a conversation in which she state a firmly held, if wrong, opinion, you could point out that people hold different opinions. An opinion that may not be held by all. That everyone is entitled to their own opinion. And that trying to force ones opinion on another is wrong. Like harley says, if you request something once or twice and the other person doesn't agree, then it is time to drop it.

Show her by your logical facts WHY you think something is the way it is, then if she says, "well mom says you should always rotate your tires!", then you can support freedom of choice by saying something neutral like "hon, mom has an opinion, and she is entitled to act upon her opinions. I happen to have a different opinion, and I act upon what I think is correct."

This may even spark your daughter to start thinking independently and form her OWN opinions...

As for dealing with the ex, I still think that if it is not already detailed, then you should take your parenting plan back to a mediator or back to court and make sure that some of the wiggle room is taken out. It will sometimes be a hardship for you to have such an inflexible plan, but in the long run it will help to curb her impulses which tend to screw you up.

What I learned from dealing with my own psycho brat from he!! was that the children will eventually need your support because of their own difficulties in dealing with the psycho parent. My own daughter felt it at about age 10 or 11 when I finally kinda gave up on her. She had started to develop behaviors that were so like psycho dad that I could not stand her anymore, and told her to behave or I was going to have to take her back to dad's house if she continued to disrupt mine. (meaning she would not stay the weekend) I even carried out this threat once. Things were so bad with dad that she woke up to the realization that she really didn't want to be with dad because my home was a haven for her away from there, and that was when she decided to move in with me.

You have to learn to yourself deal with your psycho ex and not let her drive you nuts, because your children are going to need your input and insight when she drives them nuts. I would suggest that you read Patricia Evans Controlling People. It is an excellent resource.

Hi Anne, long time no chat!

Well, i sent a well worked over email to the X detailing the specific incidents of why i get frustrated, and why she gets me frustrated. . .

For the moment, it was well received, and i got an emotional phone call thanking me for the letter, apologizing, trying to be cooperative. . .

Believe it or not, she has never seen an emoticon, and expected me to assume that two !! meant a joke.

So we will see what happens. . . . . and at the moment, i don't have any grounds to drag her to court, and i don't have the resources to do so. . . . at the moment. . .

wiftty