It is fairly common for marital assets to be divided 50/50 or 60/40, etc. I have learned from experience that it is critically important to get as much as you possibly can at the time of division of marital assets, because you sure can't count on child support. Although my H has paid, with a few exceptions, the court ordered child support, the court has no interest in assuring that he makes any effort to earn what he could if he tried. He remained unemployed for over two years - during much of that time business was booming in his field. He showed up with a list of places to which he had applied - I did not count them, but it appeared to be considerably less than one a week. He told me that he knew of no job for which he was qualified that paid more than minimum wage - never mind that he had a college degree and many years experience, and our 16 year old is earning more than minimum wage in a job that requires no experience. He finally got a job, working far less than 40 hours a week and not at all during the summer - but the magistrate doesn't view that as a problem. After all, he is over 50 - nevermind that I am only a few years younger, had far less experience, had been a SAHM for 4 years and hadn't worked full-time in many years - yet I was able to find not one but two jobs in related fields during approximately the same time period, each earning more per hour than he is earning. He is in a professional field, where keeping your skills up to date is important, but no one seems to expect him to - even though he could have extended his unemployment benefits had he done so.

He is driving a brand new 30K+ car, and has, by his own admission, relatively few expenses. His new wife financed the car with a second on her home, and pays all the mortgage and utilities. Yet it is ok, according to the court, for him to ignore the fact that he should be contributing toward our child's college expenses, as it states in the separation agreement. Our daughter is paying for almost all of it herself, and he can not "afford" to even give her $25 a week so she can eat. She isn't willing for me to give her much money, because she does not want to deprive her siblings of food. Our child is literally starving, losing weight she can ill afford to lose.

How can you justify driving around in a 30 thousand dollar car when your child is starving? How can the courts allow that? The state law states that one of the purposes of child support is to balance standards of living, so the children's standard of living is at least as high as their parents - but that is a complete farce. What motivation does he have to earn more money when that would require working more? He is not the one going to the food pantry.

Nellie, I sympathize with your situation.

Since beginning divorce proceedings it has begun to "dawn" on my stbxh that his alimony and child support obligations are going to take a significant amount of $ from his paycheck...when he again has a paycheck. He has been out of work for nearly a year.

Your advice will be well heeded. My stbxh gets angry with me when I listen to my attorney on settlement matters....wonder why!!??!!
I hope things get better for your college student. School is hard enough with out wondering where your next dollar will come from.
What is wrong with these fathers?? (And I know that all fathers are NOT like this, and it's not a general put down at all).

How can you justify driving around in a 30 thousand dollar car when your child is starving? How can the courts allow that? The state law states that one of the purposes of child support is to balance standards of living, so the children's standard of living is at least as high as their parents - but that is a complete farce. What motivation does he have to earn more money when that would require working more? He is not the one going to the food pantry.

Who say the courts are fair? You could reverse it and ask how a wife could not work, have a kid or two, live with man making big $$ and the ex-h will still have to pay alimony & child support when he himself is getting by on very little. Happens lots of times.

Hello Nellie,

I remember when you came on the board. I really understand your pain. But you have been divorced for a while. You ex H has shown you who he is now. I am saying this in nothing but love; IT IS TIME TO LET IT GO!

Yes you are financially struggling and you ex H has the cat's pajamas in your eyes. But let it go. Harboring all that hate is doing YOU NO GOOD! Instead of looking at what he has monetarily and you do not why not change your perspective. You have far more than he will ever have. He will not have the love and admoration of family and friends while you will and do. You will have the satisfaction of knowing that you had a challange infront of you and suceeded. He will never know that.

Really I am saying this in love. Enough is enough. I miss a lot of my past life with my ex but lets face it I would not go back and I love a lot more about my life now. Please for the good of you and your family stop focusing on your ex husband and focus on yourself.

broken,

Thanks for the support. I do not understand how a father can let his child go hungry.

Chris,

Yes, it is not right in reverse either, but even that is not quite the same - it is heartless to let your former spouse go hungry, but it is beyond heartless to do that to your child.

MoiNovelle,

No, I will not "let it go." I will not give up fighting for my children to have enough to eat. Giving up is the reason so many parents can get away with abandoning their kids to lives of poverty.

This is an issue that effects everyone. Because the state will not force non-custodial parents to support their children, all the employed people on this board who live in the U.S. are paying for my children's need-based scholarships and reduced price lunches, and our family's fuel assistance. All of us are also paying for the TADF, food stamps, and subsidized housing that many single parents receive.

<small>[ March 05, 2003, 08:02 AM: Message edited by: Nellie1 ]</small>

Nellie, I don't think MoiNouvelle means to give up getting support for your children.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Harboring all that hate is doing YOU NO GOOD! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think she means to stop hating him for what he's doing to them, because it is only hurting you, and you are passing that hatred on to your children. If your child is starving, get food stamps, or talk to your local pastor and ask for help. You may not get help where you think you should get it (X), but you will probably find help in other ways, through other people.
Good Luck.

I'm still fighting through the divorce and splitting the assets, and my STBX could easily do the same with showing no income. I am planning my life on what I make, and plan to keep CS for their college funds - because I'm certain he will never contribute to that.

Stay strong, but don't focus on hatred. Did you read the Two Wolves story on the EN board, it is very appropriate.

I do NOT hate my H. I am furious at him, and my anger if fully justified. I love him, and I will always love him. I do not understand why so many people seem to think that love and anger are incompatible.

As for food stamps, I am not eligible. I make a little too much to be considered indigent.

You are fortunate that you can support your family on your income - I don't remember how many kids you have, but I suspect it is fewer than the six that I have. Many years ago, I gave up my career so my H could go into business for himself in a new location - if I had not done so, I might have been almost able to support the kids on my income - but that would not make it right, or fair to the kids, to be deprived of support from their father.

I wish you the best. I am lucky in that I can support my 2 girls by myself.
From reading your post, I do think dwelling on the anger is fueling it. When you learn to Detach, and look at him as the person he is, and not who you think he should be, you will grow calmer.
Six children, God Bless you and your family. I am not that capable to care for 6 children.
If you do need help, ask your church, other social service agencies, rather than let your child starve.

Nellie,

I in no way ment stop providing for your children. Newly said it best. I ment you really need to let go of the anger.

Here is something you need to hear and it has been told to you before; YOU ARE NOT HELPING YOUR CHILDREN WITH YOUR RAGE. Justifiable it may be but it is only hurting you and your children. Trying to get money from him has proved to be futile. You are wasting good time and energy on trying to get blood from a turnip. Now why not change your focus on areas you can get financial assistance.

How old are your youngest children? Are they eligable for WIC? Your daughter is in college and must have the grade so she can apply for scholarships. Lots of children work their way through university and have never suffered ill effects. I worked my way through. I did not loose out. In fact I find I am my most productive when super busy.

Nellie you have options you just focus on your rage for your ex H and his former OW now wife. I know how many children you have. Trust me some of the older ones can work for pocket money. They will learn responsablity and the value of a dollar.

Plus there is nothing wrong with you planting a garden for food. I do. In my former house my neighbors showed me how to can and freeze my produce. She even showed me how to make the soup stock with all the vegs and then add meat. You have lots of options you just refuse to see them because your focus is on your ex.

If you think your ex is staying at home and feeling sorry for himself you are kidding yourself. You will never be able to heal until you let go of your anger. He is not going to change. By now you know this. The ball is in your court. You are a very bright woman are you going to let your ex dictate the rest of your life?

Nelli,

I know you want the best for your children--most parents do--

But the other ladies are right, your ex-h isn't the man You would like him to be--someone who will love and support your children the way you want him to..it's time for you to face that and accept it--You don't have to like it..but
you really do need to accept it..for yourself and for your kids--acceptance of that will help ease the rage you feel--

Yes, your anger is justified, but you and your kids are the one's who suffer--do you think your ex-h really cares that you are angry at him???

No, He doesn't--he doesn't have to live with it..
and neither do you--but for some reason you keep
living in it..and with that--your forcing your kids to live in it too--

Do you really think your kids like seeing their mom so angry? and I'm sure it comes out in your relationship with them..even if you don't recognize it as such..it comes out--

Stop trying to force him to be the man you want him to be--he will just continue to fight you on
on changing--he will only get worse..

Once you really learn to let it go--your life may begin to change in ways you never expected--

Sure, you may never have him in your life again, and from what you've said, why would you want to??

You may find someone else who will love you and care for you in a way your ex never did--and love and support your children in ways you've never dreamed..

Your anger and bitterness only hurt's you and those closest to you..it doesn't effect the person
your angry at--

You made a statment that your anger is justified.

I don't see it that way, If you have let go of him and are not hanging onto him, this wouldn't make you mad. Maybe upset that he cares less if your child needs food. Only when we have some connection between eachother, do e get mad and angry. " example" I am sure you know of others that are doing the same thing as you ex. But they don't make you angry." You may think how can someone do such a thing to there child, but your not mad at them.. You still are connected to this man. It is time to let go and move on, and the only way to move on is to let go.

Hey Nellie,

I just don't get it.

I come here pretty much daily - just reading mostly these days. I too am divorced now, and don't find I have much advice to give.

What don't I get? Why do I come here and read every day people venting their anger and frustration and getting positive reinforcement. Most here are told that it's right to come here and vent. Their frustrations are shared with many others, especially here on the D/D boards. Why don't you get the same courtesies?

Nellie, you are mad and tired and beyond frustrated. You have every right in the world to be all of the above, and you have every right in the world to come here and vent. I am a mom of three teens, two at home and I am very involved with a good man, and I am still mad, tired and frustrated. I do get child support and alimony, but when those run out I'm in big trouble. I stayed home to raise kids for 12 years so now that I'm back in the work force I make a very low salary. If I didn't have the alimony I'd be sunk. I wish I would have gotten a degree during those years so I would at least have the capability of making more money, but I was strongly discouraged from working or going to school while I was married.

I imagine it is so hard to see your ex husband living a good life while your children suffer. My ex husband is pretty good to the kids financially. He is very over-extended, what with the engagement to OW and the big new house, but he is pretty fair to the kids, paying for their cars and sometimes their clothes, haircuts...but since he bought the new house he has really tightened up. He won't pay for my youngest sons shrink anymore and is refusing to buy them things that he thinks child support covers.

I don't know why you don't get a fair shake here on MB Nellie. I've always liked your posts and have always shaken my head in wonder as to how you're doing this with twice as many kids as I have, and I'm not just talking about the money. More days than not I am exhausted by the miriad of problems my teens have and I run out of ways to help them.

I get tired of the talk of bitterness here. We will heal at our own rate...a girlfriend of mine called me bitter not to long ago and I told her to never ever again say that to another friend of hers that had been divorced. She seemed stunned, but I told her that using that word was like saying to a friend that had a miscarriage "don't worry...you'll get pregnant again some day...it was God's will?.

MB'ers...haven't we all come here just to say we feel crappy. Haven't we all come here to vent about our ex's and the stunts they pull. Shouldn't MB be a safe place we can do that rather than a place we are told to "get over it". I can not fathom watching one of my children go hungry while their dad drives around in an expensive car...I mean telling her to grow some vegetables! Should she do that in between her two jobs or get up for work an hour early to tend that garden?

Lighten up...we are all in pain here, and we all have the right to come here for (as Dr. Phil says) a safe place to fall.

allison

Allison's right, we should give sympathy here. But too many times people want sympathy without doing any work. I have worked on my anger and still work on it, as have most of us. But many of us realize that if we dwell on the anger, it consumes us. In many cases, we see it in our Ex's, and it is not attractive or healthy. So understand that many of the comments are based on improving conditions for you and your children. Yes you may deserve more from him, but right now it only hurts you.
I still say, seek help where you can. Local churches and social agencies are available. You are not the only person in your situation, although I'm sure it seems like it. Asking for help is one step to full recovery. We can't do it all ourselves, we need help. Some we get on this board, and much more outside this board.
I hope this makes you feel less "attacked", but I know I am very sensitive to the Anger and Blame stages, and I've written similar responses to others in that vein.

Nellie

Sorry if Sounded harsh on you. I never meant for it to sound that way. All I was trying to say was he is his own person and you have to except that. Getting mad and upset only effects you and the kids. By letting go of the anger and resentment, you will see that he is showing what type of person he is. Kids don't have to see Mom mad at Dad not knowing what dad has done, and you should never tell them that there father cares more for his new lifestyle than his Kids. Just let hem figure that one out on their own.

I myself do everything I can do for my son, but still get all her bad days and everything taken out on me by my exw. This is not fair, but I get it never the less. Do I get mad? No I just sit and listen. I don't even have to do that much. I could always hang up. But why should I do such a thing as that. I am a grown up, I choose to act like one..

allison,

Thanks for your support. I can't say I understand it either - with a handful of notable exceptions, including you, I have found this board very unsupportive most of the whole time I have been here. Sometimes I think it may have something to do with the fact that people keep hoping that in a year or so they will be happy as a clam, and it scares them to think that life can still be pretty cr**py years later.

For those who are apparently annoyed for some reason that I am angry:

Anger is a very appropriate emotion. It is not harmful - as a matter of fact, trying to convince yourself that you are not angry when in fact you have every reason to be is psychologically harmful. I never did understand until I started getting these responses why Sesame Street felt the need to have that goat tell kids it was ok to get mad. Of course it is ok to get mad. I now realize that some people were apparently raised to think it is not ok, and I find that very sad. It is perfectly all right to get angry, and perfectly all right to remain angry as long as the person at whom you are angry continues to treat you badly. If the person in question were contrite and apologetic, and then stopped treating you badly, then it would be reasonable to stop being angry. It would be stupid to stop being angry just because the person has been treating you badly for a long time - if someone were to hit you on the toe with a hammer every day, it wouldn't get any less painful as time went on. And it would be pretty ridiculous to advise the person to just accept the fact that the person was going to continue hammering them, to get a bigger shoe so their swollen toe would fit, and to stop focusing on it. The smart thing to do would be to fight back, either one's self or through the courts and legislature.

One very important lesson is teaching your children that you can be angry while still loving someone.

My daughter, btw, is working two jobs and between her jobs and her scholarships, grants, and loans, she is able to pay for absolutely all her college expenses except for meals. I think that is pretty d*** good.

Letting people get away with not supporting their children is harmful from a societal perspective as well as a personal one.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am sure you know of others that are doing the same thing as you ex. But they don't make you angry."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Of course they do make me angry. I've been furious at SNL since shortly after he started posting, and I've never met the guy. Don't you get incensed when someone is mistreated, even if you don't know them? You weren't mad at the terrorists, just because no one you knew was inside the World Trade Center (assuming that was the case)? You weren't mad at Polly Klaus' killer, just because she wasn't your daughter?

Nellie,

I have always identified with your situation and feel so badly for you and your children. I happen to agree with you that it is the system that stinks. It enables your X to even make choices re searching for employment and how many hours to choose to work.

It is never OK to have a parent use their finances to support their own selfish needs before taking care of their own childrens' basic physical needs such as adequate food, clothing and shelter. This is what you are talking about. You are taking care of all this as well as taking care of all their other very important emotional, social and other needs while holding down 2 jobs. I admire you so much. I am sure your children will endure and meet these challenges that should not have been theirs in the first place. For that you can be rightfully angry. Try as well to look on the brighter side; these challenges will help your children make their way in the world. They will be equipped from lessons that they did not have to learn in the same manner, but they did and will continue to learn as they had no choice. They will also learn form you and the example you are setting in taking care of them.

I respect you and admire what you are doing as a parent to support and nurture your children in the face of this adversity. Nellie, it is very hard to "move on" when the same behaviour continues and your children are the ones who are still suffering as a consequence of their father's actions and choices.

The problem is your X is enabled to get away with his behaviour by the system. In North America it is noteworthy that it is single parent households that are the poorest. Divorce and inadequate child support may very well be one of the reasons for this.

"if someone were to hit you on the toe with a hammer every day, it wouldn't get any less painful as time went on. And it would be pretty ridiculous to advise the person to just accept the fact that the person was going to continue hammering them, to get a bigger shoe so their swollen toe would fit, and to stop focusing on it. The smart thing to do would be to fight back"

Never did I say not to fight back in a legal stand point, but don't let him continue to get to your emotions.

If someone was hitting me on the toe with a hammer I wouldn't just stand there. I would make the effort to walk away. " take my toe out of his or her reach".

First off Allison no one here is not giving Nellie support. But sometimes the the truth hurts but needs to be said. I was on the boards long before Nellie came and trust me when I say if you go back through all her posts you will see the same theme. She has not moved on.

Nellie,

I really am sorry about what hand life has delt you and your children. It really is not fair and I really cannot understand a man who can do that to his own children. But if you do not think I talk from experiance you are wrong. My dad dropped my Mom off at the hospital with me and never looked back. He left my Mom with a baby at home and one on the way. My father never gave a penny to my Mom to help support us. And you know what one of the best things she ever taught me? That when life hands you lemons you make lemonaid. She never once complained about my father. She never sat around winging about what a jerk he was for leaving us behind and not caring. I remember nights where there was nothing in the house and we would eat pancakes. I now look back on her and she really is the stongest woman in the world and probably one of the brightest for knowing that no matter what the man who left her at the hospital was still our father that we loved.

Now why are you allowing someone to be such a strong focus in your life. He has already shown you that he does not care. He is happy in his new life. He took a low paying job because he does not have to work.

I am going to probably be flamed for this but I was talking to my H last night about your situation. The first thing he asked "was she like this with her husband. If so I can see why he left". I told him I did not know. But Nellie you really are allowing past pain to not allow you to move on.

If you think I am not telling you this for your own good than you are wrong. In my support group I have seen women who have allowed the anger to swollow them up. My ex did awful things to me. I was emotionaly and physically abused. Sexually asulted by him once. I have so many OWs that I cannot even count them all. I am still going through trials for him breaking the DVPs. It is projected that I will be going to court for another year or so. But I have moved on. I do not allow my ex any thoughts in my life. And trust me he can and has tried to still make my life a living hell.

If you want more money try for it. Be your own lawyer and see what happens. But let your anger go. Not sure if anyone remembers a woman who posted on the Preganacy board. She refused to allow her anger to subside. It was an ugly monster that fed on itself. She stalked the OW and her H. She could not let it go and lost her marriage, than her children because they moved in with her ex and ow, and finally she lost her life. Not saying this will be you but really how do you want your life to be?

Nellie for some reason you seem to relish your anger. It might feel like a safe place for you but it will consume you. You can let go of your anger and still fight for what is right for your family. In fact without the anger you might actually be able to focus better and see more options that are available to you than now. I never once questioned your abilities but I do question why you feel the need to keep your anger.

willbok,

You are right that the system allows men (and women) to get away with not supporting their children, and something needs to be done about it. Unfortunately, when the court system and the legislative system has a large percentage of officials who have left their families, it is hard to make progress. My state is way down near the bottom in the amount of child support awarded in low income brackets - I believe it is 48 out of 52. I think that is inexcusable, especially when the state has one of the highest costs of living in the country.

I am not working two jobs at the moment, but I will be (I hope) as soon as I complete graduate school this summer.

needtounderstand,

And if he went chasing after you with the hammer, even if you could run faster, you wouldn't be angry?

moinovelle,

I don't know what screen name you used to post under, because your current member number indicates that you have not been here very long. Maybe if I knew who you used to be, I would be better able to understand why you are so antagonistic. I am not sure what the "like this" referred to - obviously when my H was home, not supporting the kids was not an issue. During the few weeks of unemployment that he experienced during our marriage, he took a job doing hard manual labor in order to earn some money to support the family. If he had heard of a situation like this, he would have been just as angry as I. Injustice made him just as angry as it does me.

If your mother did not make every effort possible to get your father to provide child support, I view that not as "making lemonaid" but as irresponsible. It is NOT somehow stronger or more moral to accept a lack of child support to which the children are entitled - it is irresponsible. When we were waiting for a hearing a couple of years ago, there was a woman with a young child whose husband was not working and was not paying any child support. She was not interested in making him pay, but the judge, rightly, would not let her get away with that. When the non-custodial parent is a deadbeat, it is usually the state who ends up paying, and it is always the kids who suffer.

I don't understand - you said that your mother was left with a baby and pregnant - so neither child even remembered their father - yet you claim you and your sibling loved him? There is something wrong with this picture.

Anger is a very productive emotion. Without anger, no one would ever fight against injustice.

You say he is happy in his new life - well, that is one thing I don't have to worry about. He is clearly not happy. He looks pretty d** miserable.

willbok,

You are right that the system allows men (and women) to get away with not supporting their children, and something needs to be done about it. Unfortunately, when the court system and the legislative system has a large percentage of officials who have left their families, it is hard to make progress. My state is way down near the bottom in the amount of child support awarded in low income brackets - I believe it is 48 out of 52. I think that is inexcusable, especially when the state has one of the highest costs of living in the country.

I am not working two jobs at the moment, but I will be (I hope) as soon as I complete graduate school this summer.

needtounderstand,

And if he went chasing after you with the hammer, even if you could run faster, you wouldn't be angry?

moinovelle,

I don't know what screen name you used to post under, because your current member number indicates that you have not been here very long. Maybe if I knew who you used to be, I would be better able to understand why you are so antagonistic. I am not sure what the "like this" referred to - obviously when my H was home, not supporting the kids was not an issue. During the few weeks of unemployment that he experienced during our marriage, he took a job doing hard manual labor in order to earn some money to support the family. If he had heard of a situation like this, he would have been just as angry as I. Injustice made him just as angry as it does me.

If your mother did not make every effort possible to get your father to provide child support, I view that not as "making lemonaid" but as irresponsible. It is NOT somehow stronger or more moral to accept a lack of child support to which the children are entitled - it is irresponsible. When we were waiting for a hearing a couple of years ago, there was a woman with a young child whose husband was not working and was not paying any child support. She was not interested in making him pay, but the judge, rightly, would not let her get away with that. When the non-custodial parent is a deadbeat, it is usually the state who ends up paying, and it is always the kids who suffer.

I don't understand - you said that your mother was left with a baby and pregnant - so neither child even remembered their father - yet you claim you and your sibling loved him? There is something wrong with this picture.

Anger is a very productive emotion. Without anger, no one would ever fight against injustice.

You say he is happy in his new life - well, that is one thing I don't have to worry about. He is clearly not happy. He looks pretty d** miserable.