Hello,<P>I'm hoping to find people that are dealing with their spouse's personality disorders or physcological issues along with building their marriage. I would love to get support, advise and to just share...for strengthening my hope.<P>I've found that it is very hard to create a positive marriage because some typical approaches don't have much success.<P>I'll share details later, I just hope there are others with these compound problems.<P>thanks,<BR>

virakech,<P>You can count me as part of this group. <P>My W suffers from depression and very low self esteem. Not an easy road to travel.

virachek<P>My H suffers from ADD...which is very hard on relationships. I also think he could be bi-polar, but that is my assumption. With his MLC and all this added in..it is most diffcult. I have been looking for a thread like this one, and am glad you started one. H is on anti-depressants...but doesn't think there is anything wrong with him! I don't think he tells his Pyschrist the whole story...I don't know what to do...he being in denial, and will not help himself...I feel my hands are tied.<P>Kathie

thank you so much for responding.<P>My husband, too has ADHD/LD, and that alone makes relationships difficult. He was once on some serious antidepressant meds and there was a big difference (I noticed) but he swore it wasn't helping at all.<P>Long-term depression, I've noticed makes the people suffering from it think that they aren't (what do they compare it to?). My husband has had depression for a long time and becomes angry then is emotionally withdrawn to punish me (at least he knows he does it).<P>One of the most serious problems is dishonesty and lack of remorse. I feel almost guilty suggesting that he may have the inability to feel sorry for his actions, but I think after 19 years of marriage, I may have the right to say it. And if that's so...I've found that therapy could be difficult because of the lack of remorse, so there's no desire for change. I found too, that there is dishonesty when he goes to a counselor. He uses half truths with everyone to create an illusion (a lie) about anything that will make him 'appear' the way he wants. He can make co-workers think he's a great husband and father. He can make friends belief I'm practically insane. He 'gaslights' me and I think he enjoys it as a game. <P>For over 5 years his depression caused him to do nothing other than work. Nothing at all, if you can imagine it. Now, he is claiming to be taking his life back, and seems to be looking out for #1. <P>I could stay dedicated to him for a lifetime if there is hope or if I could see small steps forward. But each kindness seems done for another reason than out of love for me. There is always a hidden agenda. The lack of sincere feelings toward me, and often toward our children, is real. I wonder if some people are born with a flaw in their psyche or if it's a combination of environment (growing up) and genetics. But did I really marry one of them?<P>on to you...tell me what your life is like, how you are living life yet, maybe feel you're alone in your growth as your spouse seems to be living seperate from you. Yeah, that's the tough part. I go to church, I paint, I garden, I have friends and dreams and goals...but he shares no compassion for these things for me, he shares no dreams along with me, his desires always seem self involved.<P>sigh...<P><BR>

Hi all<BR>Same problem here... A lot of psychological problems on top of an EA. Its very hard to try and follow any plan when you<BR>are dealing with someone that isn't capable of putting any<BR>or little effort into a relationship.<BR>Unfortunately, <BR>mine is about over. H moved back in 8 weeks ago and its been pure Hell. I think he will be back out tomorrow.<BR>I hope that he will get himself some help, but I have had to<BR>realize that at this stage, its not really my problem anymore. I have to go on and concentrate on myself, and the family now, instead of directing all my energy crying and worrying about him.<BR>Keep in touch,<BR>Jessica

vira,<BR>see my post to you under non-sexual marriage<BR>didi

My H has done all of those things. All he did was work..finding excuses to work to be out of the house. He was a Yes person to anyone who would ask favors from him..wanting so much to be accepted and liked. His self-esteem is at 0.. He would start projects, and would take months to finish...his speech became rapid..mind racing..always changing his mind..and of course when things did not go right, it was my fault. When his PA started on the internet...she made him feel good about himself...always feeling sorry for him..telling him things he wanted to hear. Oh if she only knew. He could never handle money...it was like water to him. In four months he went through an enormous amount and put us in such financial straits. Got himself a $900 a month apt..with a year lease..did he think of his other responsibilits NO!!!! He did things without thinking them out or the conquences. I was the ony stable factor in his life..and he thought I was controlling...he even went so far as to tell the ow he was afraid I would kill him!!!!! (He tried to do it himself and landed in the hospital twice last summer). He tells his Dr. what he wants her to know, and she thinks he is just fine. I heard it all..and am at my wits end not knowing what to do. However, just recently, I have given it all up to God, and I can't help him. He has to crash and pick himself up. Finding out about the A, him trying to kill himself afterwards, and his mother dying..he still hasn't crashed..I don't know what it is going to take..but I hope it is soon. He calls me everyday...and I do see him once a week...but he has become very cold..I know he feels so much guilt and shame..but I have come to the realization, he is the only one who can help himself. I need to grow in my life...and be happy, with or without him. I am going forward...and looking out for myself. I find it is much easier that way. My heart goes out to you, I can FEEL your pain. Think about you...love yourself..and Do for you. <BR>Kathie

ya know, there really are patterns...I haven't dealt with too many people that are in my position. Just reading all you're writting is like seeing a mirror of my own marriage. It makes me feel better, really.<P>I will always desire for our relationship to grow and improve, and I always thought that love and willingness was enough. Yes, it's out of my hands. But it's also very hard because I don't know what will happen or if there is a positive outcome. But I'm alright regardless. <P>The hardest thing is trying to accept and/or understand what is really important to someone else isn't always spouse and kids. Sometimes it's something like money or what can be bought with money or appearances.

My STBX wife suffered for years from chronic depression, was on anti-depressants. She had an episode of hypo-mania, in which she had 2 affairs and spent thousands of dollars, but refused to acknowledge the illness. This lead to our current separation. She has talked about suicide for as long as I have known her. She once did self-cutting to her arms and legs. She was sexually abused as a child and is experiencing a psychological breakdown from her recovered memories and flooding of anger and fear from the repressed emotions. After resisting therapy for years, I believe she is finaly getting the appropriate help.<P>In my opinion, it is impossible to have a healthy marriage with someone who is mentally ill and refuses to get help. If they are getting treatment, then it might be possible to stay married, but it still very difficult and painful.<P>Each person's situation is different, and you have to make the decision whether it will work or not. The important thing to remember is you are not the cause of the illness, and you are not able to cure it. It's up to your spouse (or ex-spouse) to get help.

You say he is gaslighting you. That is scary. Are you getting help for yourself? Do you have a job of your own? You need your parachute packed. Personality disorders, psychiatric disorders, emotional disease, spiritual ailments... ugh. <P>He is responsible to become healthy. Hold him to it or be ready to bail out to safety when you have had enough. Do you have young children?<p>[This message has been edited by Karenna (edited March 20, 2001).]

I guess that we are battling about who has a diagnosis<BR>She says I have a psychiatric problem and I counter that we have had several counselors and I never heard one such comment<BR>On the other hand, I think she has a real attachment disorder. She needs to stay emotionally distant.<BR>It makes it very hard to work on the marriage<BR>She has agreed to go to a counselor again.<BR>But I get to make the inital contact.<BR>I will be FAR more discriminating this time.<BR>If there is no plan really quickly--I'm gone<BR>No more long term useless navel-gazing<BR>R

someone just summed it all up...the marriage can't work until the physcological problems are dealt with. And that's what is so frustrating, not knowing if it will happen at all so we can get to the good stuff. Actually, there are problems that would become non-problem as a result of positive therapy.<P>It has taken years to peel away and get down to the major issues. I brought issues into the marriage too. I've successfully completed therapy years ago, mostly for depression and anxiety that I didn't understand, and continue to grow and learn. Many stressors used to be made to appear as though they were my problems, but I have the understanding I need to know it's a transference of the attention onto someone else and I know I just have to know the truth to push off the trickery. I have an understanding and support system. <P>Knowing that there may never be a resolve still hurts, even though I know I have no control over his problems. It just simply isn't what I want. I love my husband. There are times when he is at ease and is a great partner, but those sparse times just aren't enough to fulfill our lives together. So, it's in his hands. It's so sad. I wonder if the spouses know how much they are loved and what it would mean to lose a person that loves them. I wonder if there is much understanding at all in their minds. It all looks so clear from the outside. I guess that's the pain of disorders, the person inside just doesn't see it and their lives are turmoil and unfulfilled. <P>So, is it genetics or environment that caused the most damage? I think genetics played a large part for my husband. But physical abuse started at a very important age of development for him and those first few years of his life were filled with torturous beatings and constant verbal attacks. Is it any wonder. I also believe that he hated so much what happened to him for so long that he has withdrawn in order to keep himself from repeating the acts he hates so much. Can I respect that? sure, but the kids need their father, and I want my husband. Or maybe it's even beyond that, maybe the personality disorder came after withdrawal stopped working, maybe it's a kind of brainwashing by torture, if you get what I mean, a permanent change to a person's structure and funciton. <BR>I'll keep praying and will accept the outcome, and I'll survive and know I'll be happy in my life regardless. But there is still feeling toward the loss.<P>thanks for sharing.<BR>

Virakech and Roger??!!! Really!!<P>This should be quite POJA-able. Any proposed or suspected psychiatric disorders need to be diagnosed by a qualified psychiatrist. Preferably a M.D. + Ph.D. Is there a medical school research hospital or clinic in your area? You want somebody academically interested in the whole situation that isn't going to see you for 10 minutes just so he can prescribe a drug and make you go away.<P>Maybe both of you should be assessed before more fighting.<P>If no diagnosis is found by the best expert you can decide upon, then leave it alone! How do you know "therapy" won't make everything worse?<P>Marriage coaching by the Harley's is excellent for normal people and less-normal people with the typical range of neuroses and functional disorders. I do know for a fact, by personal first-hand experience, and professional second-hand experience, that there are precious few therapists who are any good. They have a knack for killing viable marriages. <P>You don't need to come here and try to recruit fans and arguments! There are better arenas for that.

Hi,<BR>I've spent the last 19 1/2 years in a mentally, verbally, and emotionally abusive marriage. (NO, I have not yet left). I am, however, finally in therapy. This therapist has seen my husband and suggested therapy for him. They believe he has Narcisstic Personality Disorder. I would be happy to share my experiences with you - there are MANY - but I don't have the time right now. (Almost 20 years of stories......) Feel free to send me an e-mail and good luck to you.<P>db8ne1@yahoo.com<BR><p>[This message has been edited by db8ne1 (edited March 28, 2001).]

A very interesting thread. My H was diagnosed ADD as a teenager. His Mother had him put on medication and she said that this helped a great deal. When I met him, he explained his "unusual behavior" as the result of ADD. Over the years, I did a great deal of research and I believe that his symptoms are those of a person with bi-polar condition. His teenage son has been diagnosed with this condition and it is hereditary. I have believed that whatever is wrong with my H has been what prompted him to the A and other actions that have harmed our relationship. He has committed to being evaluated (on several occasions), but he has always backed out before this was accomplished. He realizes that something is wrong, but slips into denial amd decides to not pursue help. Suicide threats, constant changes of direction (impulsiveness), depression, low self esteem, anger, and sometimes, just plain crazy behavior. He will have times when he will steal or lie, just to be doing so. Ironically, he knows right from wrong. He just can't seem to avoid taking the wrong path at times. All in all, his actions have been devastating to everyone who loves him. My only peace has come from believing that God had a plan and that his plan would be worked out. I do believe that God is working on my H. I do not have any advice to offer, just thought I would share that I can relate to those who love someone with problems like this. It is not an easy road.

I have been married for 15 yrs and have known my H for 19. His behavior has always been a bit different, however I became use to it and thought it was the norm. However, his depression, and impulsiveness/compulsiveness got him into a lot of trouble. He met a women on the internet, flew to Germany and had his A over there. He went through a considerable amount of money, and thought nothing of it. He too, has been diagnosed with ADD...and I have done so much research on it, and have suspected bi-polar disorder. I sit back and watch him destroy himself. Since I have known him, he has always taken a left when he should have taken a right. He is on an anti depressent, but that is not helping. (has been on three different kinds). His psychrist is only as good as what he tells her...which I know have been lies. he thinks there is nothing wrong with him, and is in denial. i love him very much, we are now separated...but we have a phone conversation every day. i know he still loves me...but is afraid to move back home. Saturday night he took me out for a hamburger...but when the conversation turns to us..he shuts off. He is not seeing anyone now..or in contact with anyone..he lives a very lonely life..all he does is work..and sleep. I don't know what else I can do to help him. I have made so many suggestions to him, trying to get him to go back to church..talk to a counselor there, but to no avail, he has done nothing. i do need to back away..get on with my life..let him continue making the mistakes he has made..let him crash and burn again and again, and see if then he will come back. Any suggestions out there that could help me with this awful mess???<BR>Kathie

I am posting here because I believe that my current pain is due to my H's condition. H originally diagnosed as ADD, however after years off of his meds, I believe he has a bi polar condition. I have researched the subject and the symptoms certainly fit. My H and I were truly working on a full reconciliation. We were seeing each other every weekend, talking daily, and talking about solving our logistics problems so that we could actually live together again (he is living with his Mom). My H seems to cycle. He goes from energetic, happy, sleeping little, to depression and anger. This past week he has fallen into anger. I often find it difficult to assess if there are "real problems" causing the mood swings, or if it is simply a mood he is going throught and that he will recover from. Since he betrayed our vows, I am a little sensitive to the possibility that he has found interest elsewhere. He has done a pretty good job of convincing me that our D and I are very important to him. However, as I said, he has had a bad week. Yesterday, he went off on me (long distance via phone) and told me that I deserved to be cheated on because I had a mean mouth. This was in response to a simple statement of my feelings. He was looking into a job that would require him to work weekends. This is the only time we can see one another. I simply said that if he took the job, that D and I would not be able to see very much of him. Sometimes he does not think through his impulsive ideas. He then said that he is sick of a long distance relationship and that being apart causes people to grow apart. I have a good job (he has none) and it really is more sensible for him to move here, that it is for me to move there. I have been trying to find work there even though I do not want to give up my home and have to live in one room of his Mom's house with H & D. I was not angry at his words, more or less astonished. In fact, I told him that I could not believe he would say these things to me. Of course, the tears began and then he accused me of being a cry baby. I told him that I was simply trying to let him know my feelings, that I loved him and wanted us to work towards being together, not to move further apart. To say his words hurt, is an understatement. But, here is the puzzle. He told me not to call him until I quit crying, but to have D call him. I was willing to back off and accept this all as an attempt by him to set himself free. Ironically, he told me that he would not ask for that and if I wanted to be free, then the destruction of our family was on my head. I know my H and knew that he would come around and that all of this would be ignored as though it hadn't happened. Sure enough, he called me at work and suggested that I come over. (Yesterday he didn't want me to). By this evening, he had changed his mind and told me to stay home, he didn't want to see me. He said he didn't know if he wanted the relationship. I brought up the conversation from yesterday and he immediately dismissed it as not being relevant. It is to me, but I recognize that I am better off keeping it to myself. The problem is that I am in a catch 22 situation here. I can't forget it as it was the words wounded me deeply. I also know him and he will pretend that all is well (if I allow it) until he goes off like this again. I can only talk to him in short concise sentences. He only has time to hear what I am saying for a very short while. I know it is not me as people who know us both well have assured me that I am a nice person and more understanding and forgiving than most people would be. His Mom feels this way as well. I truly love him, but we seem to keep riding this crazy roller coaster and I am extremely reluctant to buy another ticket. Does anyone have any insight about this? Is this normal behavior for people with these kinds of problems? I am really tempted to tell him very simply that I just can not do this anymore. I am hurt and even though rationally I understand that he does not mean this at all times, that he will find it impossible to leave me alone (his words from several weeks ago), and that I still anguish at the thought of giving up. Any ideas for me? I am so much stronger than I was a while back. I am no longer angry, just hurt and tired. But, I am longing for something more here. a little progress to keep my hope up. A breakthrough, revelation, something to change this never ending pattern. It is totally predictable, but ever so painful. His mother told me that he will be difficult to get out of my life. This is doubly true when my heart isn't up to giving up either. But, something has to change. My D has told me that he hurts our feelings. She is suffering too.

My husband emotionally abandoned me after I gave birth to the baby he really wanted. I did everything for two years including work full time(from home luckily). Then last summer my company changed a lot of policies including compensation, I had to pass up a lot awaited promotion, my beloved dog of 13 years underwent many medical proceedures and my toddler refused to adjust to preshcool. Around September my dog was diagnosed with cancer and I had all I could handel alone, I was begging and crying to my husband for some help, thought I'd have a break down. He was nonresponsive. In November I find out he has been having an affair for several months, then my dog dies! To make matters worse, my husband continued to lie and display alot of behaviors I was unhappy with so I could never really beging to heal or repair the marriage. Finally, last week he was diagnosed with ADD! What a relief, at least there is some explanation for all this surprising stuf. Now I just do not know how much I should take the ADD into consideration, he is still ultimatly responsible for all he did to me. Unlike many of your spouses, he is very sorry, active in his treatment, going to therapy and awaiting his RX for meds. Any input? By the way, prior to the birth of our son he was IDEAL! I think it just set off a bad chain reaction of self loathing (it was a bad bad birth and he felt very helpless)

ADD is not that kind of disorder! What on earth are you saying! You just want to make up an excuse for him so you don't have to work on the marriage the hard way and hold both you and H fully accountable?

Karenna is right...We can make all the excuses we want for them but they are ultimately responsible for their own actions. There is NEVER an excuse to have an affair, ever. I only put up with so much from my husband and, while he never had an affair, it was heading that way. He seemed to be taking a lot of interest in a co-worker and, when I found out they had dinner together, that did it. I told him he either got some help or I was gone...and I meant it.<BR>Well, much to my surprise, he did. In his case, an anti-depressant seemed to be the answer. It truly was a miracle.<BR>A few months later, I found an e-mail from this slut inviting him to dinner at a really nice restaurant. His answer was, "Are you kidding? I'm not doing anything to mess up my marriage. I almost went too far one time. Quit mailing me."<BR>I smiled and fixed him a great supper...in a bikini