I heard from a friend of mine today who divorced a few years ago that there was a definite financial advantage to being the one to file first for Dv. She filed for Dv here in Alberta. She said she got half her hubby's pension among other things that her lawyer said she'd never have seen if she'd waited for him to file for Dv.

Anyone else here from Canada that filed for their divorce before their spouse, and know anything about any financial benefits?

Anyone from Alberta even? (That's where I'm from.)

Come May 30th, either one of us can file for Dv. I'm not saying I'm certain I'm going to file, but want to know all the facts.

For the longest time I thought I'd rather he file, just so he has to live with it on HIS conscience forever. But it looks like perhaps my desire to be a life-long martyr may not be in my best interests financially.

So let me know if there are any Canucks out there that know any more on this topic.

Jen

<small>[ May 06, 2003, 03:30 PM: Message edited by: Jen Brown ]</small>

I'm not from Canada, but, I was the BS and I filed first and I've not had one minute of guilt for having done so. My x told me we were getting divorced (he'd made the decision before he talked to me...so there was no talking about it). When I told my attorney that I wanted my stbx to file first, my attorney told me that it was to my advantage to file because I would have control over the timetable. I could draw it out or hurry it up, which ever I wanted. I did it as quickly as I could...but, if I'd wanted to slow things down, I would have been in a position to do so since I filed first. I don't know if this is something that is considered in Canada but wanted you to know so that you could ask the question.

Thanks BeenThere. I'll add that to my list of things to ask!

Jen

The first filer could have an advantage, only if they hide some records or assets at the same time, and the victim is never able to find it all. In other words, filing first for financial advantage, must be part of a larger plan that includes an ambush. Is that what you're planning?

Maybe your friend's lawyer assumes that your friend's ex would have hidden the pension, if he had filed first. But lawyers talk that way. Partly it's bragging, partly it's getting the client to rely on their advice, and partly it's being safe to assume the worst. Although in most cases, hiding a pension would be pretty hard.

The first filer is not necessarily in control of the pace, either. A lot depends on what the other party does. He can certainly make it last the full legal waiting period, if that's what he wants. Or he could go along with your pace.

Whether you file first or not, you should have an accurate picture of the assets and liabilities on the date of separation, or on the date of D filing, whichever is the magic date in Alberta. If either party dissipates or transfers those assets, they have to account for it at the final settlement. You have to make sure that you could survive financially in the meantime.

But you don't need to file first in order to do these things.

I am from Ontario and filed first. Other than getting the process started and moving (as opposed to living in X's limboland, without him being legally responsible for support and using assets which should no longer belong to him (and vica versa) , there is NO financial advantage at all, except the chance to sort out your assets and get legal agreements on all this.

And yes, regardless of who files first, either can delay and use stall tactics if there is an agenda to do so.

You might want to go to the gov of Canada web site and access the divorce act. I am sorry that I do not have the web address offhand.

Well....I'm from Alberta. Have been to court 42 times in the past 3 years with no end in sight. As for the disspation of assets...he took it all and I have no recourse. Facts are, the Justice System in Alberta sucks. Basically tis the person with the most money that wins. My ex hasn't paid regular child support for years. Maintenance Enforcement has used every enforcement action available and still no luck. I would suggest though that you get in touch with "Legal Guidance" in your city and take the program (6 weeks and gives you the low down of everything you need to know). Also read, read, read and ask as many questions as you can. Get whatever paperwork you can together, even if that includes photocopying everything you have. CLOSE THE BANK ACCOUNTS and take your name off ANY credit cards. Write to ALL your creditors and tell them you are separated and you will NOT be responsible for any credit (I didn't do that and have been held responsible for ALL the credit card debts he racked up AFTER our separation up until the time our divorce came through...and that includes all the holidays for his girlfriends and the toys and presents he bought for them. )
so...best advice? keep documents, keep documentation up (keep a daily journal of telephone calls, what he said, where any money goes....everything. It establishes a pattern that you may need to fall back on.)

Good luck! Oh yes...and stay away from Legal Aid, whatever you do!

It sounds like the general answer is there really isn't any advantage to filing first. I'm not planning any kind of ambush. I'll have to ask my friend some more about her situation I guess.

When I moved out we wrote up a detailed separation agreement, that divided everything up except for the house. In it we stated that in the event we actually go through with the divorce, my H owes me half of the equity accumulated.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Get whatever paperwork you can together, even if that includes photocopying everything you have. CLOSE THE BANK ACCOUNTS and take your name off ANY credit cards. Write to ALL your creditors and tell them you are separated and you will NOT be responsible for any credit (I didn't do that and have been held responsible for ALL the credit card debts he racked up AFTER our separation up until the time our divorce came through...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, at least I (we) were smart enough to cancel our old joint credit cards and start separate bank accounts, and start separate credit cards about 1 month after I moved out. I never wrote those letters though. My H has assured me he cancelled the old credit cards, and is the kind of financially anal person that pays of his credit cards EVERY month. He left the joint bank account open and still uses it, although I haven't put money into it or taken any out since we agreed to financially separate. If I was evil, I guess I could steal all the money he has in there, but I'm not that kind of person.

Back to that separation agreement, we didn't nickel and dime list the precise value of every item we each took, just the big things like cars. If we go through an amicable divorce, we can use the "Divorce Guide for Alberta" and just pay lawyers a few hundred bucks each to finalize things. If we go for a full-on divorce written up by a lawyer, I understand it will cost a minimum of a couple of thousand dollars each. And if we lose our ability to be amicable, it would go up from there. Are my figures at all accurate? This is what I was told by the two lawyers I saw last summer when I was afraid my H was going to screw me over by getting me to
sign a separation agreement we wrote up ourselves.
To be honest, I don't really expect him to screw me over. But maybe I'm naive.

He seems to still love me but just not have it in him to forgive me and give up his two stupid female best friends.

Jen

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Have been to court 42 times in the past 3 years with no end in sight. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I forgot to ask about this. WHY WHY WHY 42 times and 3 years? Is it all over child custody issues perhaps?

We have no kids. I'm betting that will fast-track things somewhat.

Jen

Hi Jen,

42 times? Because he's an abusive controller. I've gone to court over such trivial things that the judge just throws out of court. Most of the time it's to go in and he has his lawyer adjourn for another month down the road...thus me losing time at work (and no pay). He's a sick man and will continue to do so. We do have children and thus they are also a pawn in his little court battles. I'm at the point where the courts know me by name and I have made friends at the court house. My ex? what goes around comes around, but the wheels of justice do turn slowly...but they DO turn (eventually! ha ha!)

Alright...now -- that bank account of yours that you have joint? How are you going to prove to the court that the withdraws you make on an automatic withdrawl machine are NOT yours? I would suggest that you go into the bank and REMOVE your name off the account. As for the credit cards that he's so anal about...it only takes you 48 cents per credit card to officially remove any trace of your name or responsibility for the financial responsibility should your husband turn the other cheek when it comes to *Paying on time*. Please...for your own sake, take the time to type up some letters and mail them off. Include in it a copy of your separation agreement so there's no question.

As for your question of cost of divorce in Alberta...if and I say IF you have everything in writing, you DON'T have to see a lawyer at all. There is an excellent resource book for Alberta that you can pick up at any London Drugs, Chapters etc. It's a Divorce Kit. Once you look over that and fill out the paperwork, all you have to do is go to the courthouse (Court of Queen's Bench) -- head up to the library and do your own investigation. The people up there are terrific and will help you fill out the forms properly (as will the court/judges chambers clerks). As for the cost of my divorce? $30,000.00 plus..and continuing. He is hell bent on destroying me. So...the sooner you can finalize all this...do it. Sorry so long, but hope that this helps.

Thanks for your post Elan. I can't even begin to imagine spending that much time in court. Is the end in sight?

I tried to go in and take my name off of the joint account, in September. It cannot be done. I was told either the account continues to be open, in BOTH our names, or one of us has to close it. My H refuses to close it b/c he's had that same account number since he was a little boy. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> I sincerely doubt he'll accuse me of stealing from him (using an ATM card), but I see your point. If I wanted to start an intense fight, I could tell him I don't trust him, close the account and give him a bank cheque for the contents, but that would start a war, and would be IMHO the first step to making for a messy and angry divorce. I don't want to cast the first stone.

About the credit cards we once shared, I guess one thing I shall do first is phone VISA and MC and AMEX and ask if the joint cards still exist or are cancelled. He did do one thing to show good faith, he gave me his old MC and AMEX cut in two last Sept., to show he no longer used them. The VISA expired before we separated and we never renewed it. If needs be, then I'll mail a letter and the CC companies a copy of the Sep. Agreement.

I do have a copy of the "Divorce Guide for Alberta". When my H and I were talking all sanely and calmly about separation and divorce, and wrote up our sep. agreement, we agreed that we'd just do this amicably and use the kit. Then it's just a couple hundred maybe for filing costs I think.

My H can be controlling and emotionally abusive, but my bet is he won't drag out a divorce. But he doesn't really seem like the man I married now, so I know better than to trust him I suppose.

I think I may go for one more free consultation with a lawyer though sometime soon, just to check things out.

Any suggestions for questions I should ask?

Jen

Hi Jen,

Joint Account - your name CAN be removed and should be. Call the manager and if he doesn't help, go higher up. You want your name OFF that account.

Cutting up credit cards - does not prove that the cards are not used anymore. It's very simple to get a replacement. Write every creditor you have jointly. Put it in writing. Like I said....48 cents is cheap when it comes to protecting your hiney! :-)

"My H can be controlling and emotionally abusive, but my bet is he won't drag out a divorce. But he doesn't really seem like the man I married now, so I know better than to trust him I suppose." -- *controlling* and *emotionally abusive* -- run like the wind girl! Men like this are totally out of control when things don't go their way. Protect yourself in every way you can, emotionally, physically and financially. Divorce is NEVER nice. With a man who has control issues, problems only escalate once they realize their control is gone. Right now you are working *together* to work out a separation agreement. I'll bet that once the *plans* are more individual, he'll be grabbing at the reins to steer you his way. Good plan for getting advice. Call the local Lawyer's Referral Service. For FREE you can have a half hour each with three different lawyers. Most lawyers will tell you though that if he's cooperative, not to worry about covering your butt (writing creditors etc.). I have been there along with many other friends I've met along the way. Lawyers are there to *make money* and not to make your life easier. If they can drag it out, they will. Once it spins out of control, it's near impossible to start. There is a website that I strongly urge you to start studying : divorcecare.com It's US based, but has some excellent info including what to ask a lawyer and what things you need to prioritize.

Sorry so long Jen....but heh...us Canucks gotta band together eh??? :-) Take care. If you want to ask more off the board, leave your email addy.