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#761848 12/10/03 11:01 AM
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After years of trying to justify staying married by hoping there was a reason and cure for what ails my wife and affects her behavior, I have decided to leave the marriage. There is so much disfunction in her upbringing and continues to this day. I have been searching for 5 years for the answers I needed. My wife appears to be Bi Polar. Un medicated and undiagnosed. I would applogise so things would blow over even if I knew she was being overly sensative or phsycotic. I have had the illusion that if I tried more, it would be better. I have been waiting for 20 years for it to get better, yet it has gotten worse. We have two kids that mean the world to me. Unfortunatly I feel I have waited too long. The kids are telling me they hate her for the way she treats them. She has two friends, one who she smokes pot with her. Then she neglects her responsibilities. It has always been about her. I let my dreams go by the wayside for a person to love me. I thought that If I was truly loved, Everything would be fine. I tried to read self help books on marriage, only to have her dismiss them as BS. I suggested counseling... NO! Dont need people to tell me how to live "My" life. Suggested Financial advisor..... NO! Dont need people telling me how to spend "My" Money. I feel I have loved her to the best of my ability. I have tried to be patient, understanding, Loving, Fun...etc. I have realized that she has a hard heart. The damage done to her as a child will never go away. It is something that without professional help will never be fixed. We have no Retirement account. She said we could do fine on SSI in 20 years. I dont think so. She has controlled every aspect of our lives for so long, I, as an individual was lost. The kids have asked me to take them away from her. I feel so bad that she has caused this with her irrational behaviors, destructive tendancies and emotional cruelty toward us all. I need to get the papers to petition for custody, then drop the news to her. I am unable to communicate with her on many levels. Her outbursts and anger scare me. She has never been at fault for anything (in her opinion). She told me that everything is the man's fault. Thats just the way it is. She even recently got in an argument with a preacher!. "Man is NOT the head of the household" and when we married, She refused to say " Obey". Had the minister change it to cherish. Worst part is, Her life is great. She does what she wants, when she wants. Goes when she wants. Buys what she wants. She wants me to discuss everything with her. She keeps me so busy at home, She knows where I am. Her Father left home when she was a teen, Mother dumped all the home duties on her, They dont speak, Brothers in jail, Other brother killed, Other brother dying.... So much hurt and frustration, I wish I could help her, But she is ruining the next generation.... My kids. They shouldnt have to suffer because of her childhood that wont go away. I feel I have failed them as well for trying to hold it together, letting her inflict her wrath upon them. She is too demanding and care little of anyone elses feelings, yet she claims to have hurt feelings all the time. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> If anyone has any last minute Ideas of how to intervein, Please let me know. Thanks and God Bless.

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H_H,

It sounds like you have had it rough and are understandably angry. It is true that IF she has a mental illness she needs professional help but she is the one who will have to choose that path. You can't force it on her.

Have you read the Concepts on the main page of this site? If not I recommend that you read them ASAP. Also, check out the "Chronic and Mental Illness" link in my signature.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> If anyone has any last minute Ideas of how to intervein, Please let me know. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What do YOU want H_H? Do you want to save your marriage? What?

Whatever your decision I recommend individual councilling (to help you deal with these issues), marriage councilling (if she will go), and concilling for your kids (to help them deal with the situation).

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I want to take my life in a new direction. I want to secure my future financial situation. I want to provide a stable, loving environment for the kids. I want a 401K, Bills paid on time, no arguments about simple life things. Why argue about paying a bill when the money is in the bank. She will not let me handle any finances because her father left them with nothing. BUT>>>For six months she let me do it. Everything was on time, paid in full, no letters, nasty grams or lawyer threats. She took it back because she claimed she didnt know where the money was going. Never gave me a chance to show her. Just put her foot down. We had to mortgage the house to pay bills because she wouldnt pay them on time and they raised the interest rate. Now we are in the hole for that, we have to pay income tax every year because she refuses to take care of her W4. We have stacks of mail unopened, not paid and some from lawyers wanting money. The cycle continues. When I say anything... "Gently I might add" She blows up and tells me hands off. Get away from there. Losing battle. She needs help I cant force on her. I helped her through college, taking ALL the resposibility for the kids, She goes on company training for 2 weeks a year. It is the best time we ever have. We have fun. We get along just fine. We get things done, fixed, kids fed and bathed etc. She came home last time to a suprise we made for her. We Sheetrocked the bathroom, painted and she *****ed because it was done without her. I lied on the phone and said we were hanging out when in fact I was working my [censored] off to get it done. I thought lieing to keep a suprise or present is ok, if it doesnt harm anyone. She came in, said, what do I smell (paint) went into the bathroom and threw a S### fit. Welcome home. the next day, she drove 14 nail holes one inch apart to hang a bathrobe on. Studs are 16" apart I said. She said when she left, she could see where they were. She then smashed the hamper door handle through the sheetrock on the other side of the room. She told me not to work on the house anymore. I havent, its now been 2 more years. Nothing finished, never will be as long as she is there. I helped buy her a new car that she drove over a stone wall while stoned (Right after smoking pot) three weeks after we got it. Not even one payment was made. She yelled at ME! She said, well, I wrecked the car. I told you it was too long. I said what? Then she started screaming at me because I was visibly distraught, but didnt say anything. She never cleans the car or washes it. Its a mess inside and out. I do it when I have to use it. So you see, I dont know how to handle it anymore. I am on medication for HBP, and if I am late with my med, I have a very short BS shield. Many times, I have been afraid someone will get hurt. Once, she told me to get a fire going as soon as I got home, that she would go to the store to get BBQ makings. After two hrs of getting wet wood going without the use of propellants that she is against, she walked in late with two pizzas and salad. I said..." I thought we were BBQ-ing? She threw it all on the floor, one kid fell in the oil, then she went to the car, one kid in, I am trying to stop her, then she starts driving away and there is a kid half in, half out of the car. Could have killed her. I was so angry, But she pointed out that it was my fault, as I am the man. Forget that I had every right to ask, as I spent two hrs making the fire she told me to. Im getting mad just remembering it. Gotta go.

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Why are you still with her?

What do you want from MB?

Here's a few links for you: Introduction to the Emotional Needs Forum, Buttercup's Abuse and Addiction in Marriage.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Section from the Intro thread:
WARNING: If you are in an abusive marriage, please consider SAFETY FIRST. These concepts are not designed to keep you in a marriage that is causing you harm. The abuse must be dealt with appropriately before attempting to use this forum and these concepts. While applying these concepts can help couples to rebuild marriages, safety must be a prerequisite for applying them.

Dr. Harley says this about Domestic Violence: My perspective as a professional who has counseled hundreds of violent clients is that these couple should be separated until there is assurance of safety. In many cases that assurance can never be given. If you have ever hit your spouse, you are a perpetrator of domestic violence and need to take extraordinary steps to protect your spouse from yourself. Throughout my career as a marriage counselor, I have done whatever I can to save marriages, but when it comes to domestic violence I draw the line. Unless a spouse can guarantee the other's safety from their own anger, I don't believe they should live with each other.


In situations of abuse or when dealing with addictions to sex, drugs or alcohol (or others), these concepts will not work effectively until those issues have been addressed with proper counseling.

Dr. Harley says this: One of the first things I do when couples see me for counseling is to evaluate them for drug and alcohol addiction. If I feel that either is addicted at the time, I refer the addicted spouse to a treatment program. The Love Buster, drug or alcohol addiction, will prevent them from resolving their marital conflicts because it controls them. It must be eliminated before marital therapy has any hope of being successful.

If you think you might be in an abusive relationship or there is an addiction of some kind at work in your marriage, please go to xpButtercups Abuse and Addiction in Marriage and use the links there to find information about these issues. The offsite links to not necessarily reflect Dr. Harley's opinions and may not work well in conjunction with the MB process.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

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1. Why am I still with her?

I have always been afraid that she would take the kids and make my life hell. Now that is is hell, I am still afraid she will take the kids. There are a few good times when things go well, but I cant really express myself to her without her making it a fight. I have been scared for a long time. I was the rescuer in the relationship. She needed help and I thought I could do it. She has only gotten worse over the years. I have not been able to think of "the future" in about six years. I just try to make it through the day without any upsets. Last night when I got home, She was in the yard. I went in, did some laundry, set the sink up for dishes, she came in, yelled at one kid because she didnt do a chore properly. I saw the conflict and stayed out of it. ( In the past when I got into it, I was made the object of anger and was told she could handle it on her own) So I did the dishes, Made dinner, fed the kids, cleaned up the kitchen, then was told that I ignored her all night. So you see it is a complete control, evryone else's fault world for her. Nothing can be done right for her. I dont know how to handle any of the "go foward issues" like.... Do I just get a lawyer, grab the kids and go? Take half the money in the bank? Call 911 and say she is unstable? Call the police? Have her committed? I want the smoothest transition as I can muster. The kids want to leave. I want to leave, but I was told not to leave the house by a lawyer. What to do? How to put up with it?

2 What do I want from MB? Some reassurance that I must do what I must. Not a shoulder to cry on. I dont need pity. I am angry that I feel screwed out of a marriage, a life with someone. A mother for my children. I tried many of the MB principles. They would work on a level headed person, but not on her. Anything I discussed with her like POJA, LB etc, she said was BS and to forget about it. All in all, although she has been so destructive to us and herself, I dont want to do it with guns a blazin. Maybe she will leave and seek help, or she will try to bury me. Like I said, i'm scared of what she might do. I have some cash available to me to make the break, but have alot of animals to care for, and I dont know what she will do. She said once it would be easier for her to leave, and that I would keep the kids because I need them more than she does. Tell me, does that sound rational for a mother?

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Options:
1. Document, Document, Document. Get witnesses. Get psychological evaluations done on your children's state of mind. Record her wild bi-polar rantings.
2. Get a lawyer. One adept at custody issues when mental illness is involved.
3. Get protective orders in place and File.
4. Understand that mental illness is genetic so help your children - get them help in overriding any genetic code that could kick in and make their lives miserable.

How old are your children?

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The kids are 13 and 14. I have a long list of happenings but no dates on them, just incidents. I have numerous antagonistic emails she sent me.

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The children are old enough to speak for themselves in a custody hearing then. If you have the documentation, there's no reason to delay this. Delaying only harms your children's recovery at this point.

Harley points out that marriages that involve addiction or mental illness do not fit the "marriage builder" principles, and recovery of a happy, healthy marriage depends on the recovery of the ill individual.

Your wife's doctrine of male blame will prevent recovery because she is not going to be responsible for her destructive behavior. But you already know that better than I do.

I know of a man who divorced his wife; because he won custody of the children due to documented abuse and their age - ability to tell the judge what it was like living at home with a mentally ill mother, he didn't have to pay alimony because she had her own job with the ability to earn self-care (of course he documented that too so she couldn't squeeze alimony out of him). He was gracious and didn't ask for child support.

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Dude, you life ALREADY is hell! Take the documented hateful emails and get to a lawyer ASAP. She is an UNFIT MOTHER. Period.
I do admire your trying to make it work.
I was in a similar sitch myself a few years back; however, it was only an engagement and thank God I saw her crap soon enuff before we really got serious!
Hope this helps.
Your wife definitely needs help, but the sad thing about Mental Illness is - they can stop meds, self-medicate, check out anytime they wish and ... it's all OK.
Except for the poor fools who have to live with their wreckage they cause.
And in my Sig Line, yes, I am Bi-Polar too, but it's a mild Bi-Polar. Result of the Gulf War I that I was in...
Best wishes and prayers to you,
Sincerely, Harold

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Hired Help,

I am so sorry for what you are going through. You must be physically and emotionally exhausted and close to the end of your rope. I can deeply empathize with you and I understand why you have reached a point where you want to get out, but you're still afraid to. My wife has had many of the same symptoms you describe.

Fortunately, after several years of this kind of worsening destructive behavior, my wife finally agreed to go on medication. Well, she didn't really have much of a choice in the end. One day she threw a book hard at our daughter and caused a deep cut in her forehead that required sutures. I told her on that day if she did not see a doctor and get some medication the very next day that I would call 911 and file charges against her.

Medication has (almost) completely reformed her. It took two attempts.. Prozac did no good. She is on Wellbutrin now and she is like a completely different person.. on the road to becoming the happy-go-lucky woman I married 12 years ago.

It has been a long journey so far, and it is by no means over. I do worry that she will some day regress, but the good news is, she worries about that too and she does not want to go there again. She is now able to be introspective. She closely monitors her mood and recognizes if she is going into a depressive episode (which is getting less and less frequent and much less severe). She describes the way she felt before she was on medication as having "hundreds of racing thoughts all going in different directions in her mind all at the same time". I can't even imagine what that is like. She is now also going to individual counselling and she is coming to terms with what has happened.

HH, I am posting this to give you a glimmer of hope. Your wife does not want to behave the way she is. She likely has no clue what she is going through. The problem you face is that you need to somehow get her on medication, and she is not willing to due to the fog from her mental illness.

If I were you, right now I would see a lawyer and your doctor and get some advice from them.

You most probably CAN get your wife back. She just needs diagnosis and medication.

Good luck HH.

Mike

PS. If you want to chat more, I'm mike_married at yahoo.

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having been with alone and happy for 20 years let me tell you that I am not destructive abusive or mentally ill. He is pathelogogial liar as has been proven to myoldest daughter and many of our friends, he kept his acholoc friend and his family and even those not for long. One by one people see the truth.

ps I am in counsoling for the self esteem he took away from me. and he says I am not what Alone and happy (hired help) says I am. He has validated the emotional incest my x was a victim of and says he needs counsoling. That my children are inan unhealthy place. for 15 years I said what a great father they had and he said what a crazy mother you have. Gee I wonder why my kids are as messed up as they are.

Yes he has destroyed my children and any love they had for me. Daily I thank god for my oldest and my strength. (and yes HH I can now go to church unlike when I was married to you and you complained over every church I tried to get us involved in)

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Hello Stone Cold,

Considering the time lapse between the last posts to this thread before your response today, I'm interested in the reason(s) you are responding now. I am also interested in the reason(s) you did not respond back when the thread was active. What changed your mind?

Prayers for your family, especially your kids <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

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i read these along time ago like during february when I was alone in my apt. I chose not to respond as this was what my husband (he still was my husband) was writing about me. I took them to therapy with me. and spoke the truth there to him. and also to my lawyer.

I chose to answer this one as it was being read by newcomers yesterday and I reread it and allowed myself to be angry for once.

Both my lawyer and my counsolor said that he cheated on me and this was his way of justifying his cheating to others. My lawyer added that no one believes what is said during a divorce by the cheater. My counsolor did not support that opinion.

I have walked in the room and saw my youngest daughter talking to her father. He put his finger to his lips to warn her I was there. Yes this is truth. Neither of which will admit this to me. they thought they could drive me crazy but it did not work. What they got was an absent mother. I refuse to be treated like they treat me.

I am neither bi poplar or manic depressive. Nor am I destructive nor am I violent. I yelled at him when I scraped my car becasue anytime I had an accident I was acreamed at and belittled. so I wanted to beat him to it. I was tired of being verbally mistreated by him.

I hit my children like 3 times in their lives and it was a slap on the arm. Every story he told here as one inch of truth and 3 miles of added lies to make me look bad. I laughed so hard about his sex life with me I fell out of my chair at work. ps this was truth I did take what I wanted. And gave what he wanted. and he loved every minute of it!!!


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