OK well my ex has just called to speak to my children and again they do not want to go with him. They are 10 and 13 year old girls - and if anyone remembers we had a huge episode a month or so ago and my ex washed his hands of my 13 year old and threw her Christmas list in her face. And he bought one daughter a bunch of stuff for Christmas and the other daughter got a $50 gift certificate - So needless to say she has not spoken one word to him - so since then he has called on New Years Eve - and on Monday - that is it - and he has told my daughter that he was writing down everything that she says for his records. ?Records for what??? I don't know?? Now the only different thing that has been happening - is that for the first time in two years - I have not asked the girls constantly are you gonna call your Dad - or said you are going with your Dad this weekend... I have just not mentioned it and I was letting him once and for all form his own relationship with his daughters.. So when we were divorced a year ago in September our original agreement was that - he was to pay half of all activities - my girls are in dancing school and it is a huge expense - one daughter is in competition - I have always paid for the tuition but when it came to costumes and shoes and entry fees he was to pay half - the same goes for cheerleading - Well he has decided that since he is not seeing them he is not going to pay for any extra activties at all.. Now this will put a huge strain on me - I mean as it is now - to get a parttime job would be very difficult because most days I have to take them to activities ... So now he wants me to tell them they have to quit and stuff because he won't pay or better yet take him to court. So I guess my question is has anyone ever gone back about the original orders - I mean my lawyer told me at one point that if he wasn't seeing the children 50% of the time - that is in the custody papers that I would be able to get more child support because he wasn't standing up to his end of the bargain.. I always thought that it was suppose to be about the kids - about not changing their life anymore than it had already been altered due to the divorce??? Has anyone ever dealt with this - and then I am not sure what he would say when it comes to braces that he is suppose to pay half of - that I have one daughter that has gone through phase 1 and there might be phase 2?? I don't really have the money to take him back to court - but I am wondering would it be worth it to just have it set in stone again - whether it is changed one way or the other ??? Any suggestions???

First I would try without lawyers.
Write him a letter stating that their activities bill and costumes cost $x, which you have already paid, and you are requesting reimbursement for his half of this expense which is $.5x.
If he doesn't answer the letter, send it registered mail.
This documents your attempt at communication with him.

If you go back to court to change the CS based on his lack of parenting, you will need documentation of the days he doesn't see them, and then he may tell the judge that he really wants the kids, just to keep from paying more.

In my state, the CS is based on the parenting days, so you do have a case, but is it worth it.
You may also be able to go to the child support office to have them rework the numbers based on the current parenting time schedule - before you see your lawyer to determine if the benefit outweighs the cost.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> he was writing down everything that she says for his records. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It sounds like he may be trying to justify his lacking in the 50% custody which would give him reason to not be paying what he is supposed to.

I'm sure he is expecting you to come after him for more money and he wants to be able to say "I want to take the kids for my time, but here is proof that they don't want me too"

I would think that any judge would still say he needs to provide 50% of their care. Wether it be in time or $$.

Make sure you keep your records and try to be civil with him about it first. If that doesn't work.... Well I don't know anyone who wants to be labled a dead-beat-dad by the courts.

Newly - right now he isn't seeing the kids at all - and he says that is because they don't want to - and you know what they don't want to - My oldest refuses to even speak to him and my youngest well she is uncomfortable with him by herself she says - because her sister isn't there - I did call him and ask him if we could just work it out ourselves -- Give me the correct figures so that we can figure out if the child support is correct - and he said nope - so then I said do you want me to make them go with you - and I am thinking that is what he wants - he is going to call me back later... ugggg - I just want it all overwith once and for all - and have no more contact or communication regarding the issues...
Wish I were home - well Deadbeat dad - nope he thinks that he is a wonderful father - I am afraid though he acts like more of the child - I did just call him as I just wrote to Newly - he is gonna call me back - he doesn't have them at all - I think he wants me to force them to go with him - but is that really the right thing to do?? I am starting with a new therapist today - and eventually the three of us are gonna go...I mean if he is going to alter paying things after two weeks of them not seeing him?? I don't know waht is gonna happen when they are say 13 and 16 and they want to be with their boyfriends and friends and not their parents at all???

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> OK well my ex has just called to speak to my children and again they do not want to go with him. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Is he asking that they go with him and you are letting them refuse?
Or
Are they not going with him because you stopped pushing it to let him be resonsible for his relationship with them and he is not taking the initiative?

Wish I were home - a litle of both - I guess I stopped forcing them to go - I guess - I just removed myself from their relationship totally but he calls like once a week and says do you want to go with me and they say no - well my youngest like I said my oldest isn't talking to him - -

I think it is best that you find out if he really wants them to go with him.

If he is trying to get them to come with him, you preventing it would be bringing you closer to his level. It doesn't sound like you are preventing it from happening.

My guess is that he is giving them a choice. If he asks and they say no and he accepts that, it's his problem.


If he is not trying to get them to go with him, then no, you shouldn't force them to. Let that be his responsibility. Let him say "I'll be there to pick you up" rather than "Do you want me to come pick you up"

I think a counselor needs to be involved here.
X picks the girls up from School, so they have no chance to say no (although they say that the night before his time).
If you are not withholding the kids, then you can't be responsible for the kids.

About the extracurricular activities, I hope its written in your document. If so, present him a bill with what you've paid to date, and ask for his half. If he balks, then send it to the lawyer. Keep this issue separate from CS.

I decided to take my DD's to ballet, and the teacher even agreed that the girls can go every other weekend, so I haven't asked X to pay. The recital is on his weekend, so I pray that he'll allow them to go.

Newly - extra activities is specifically written in my document - especially pertaining to dance because that is the big expense - but he has not paid half of the tuition since we got divorced - so basically he is in contempt of the original agreement - so I have spoken to my attorney becuase he insists that he has an attorney - so I told him to have his attorney call mine because I am not gonna deal with it anymore - at all... It just stresses me out...

Keep good records of the expenses, and if necessary, put a lien on his house, car or his income tax refund.
And it's good to know when to step out of the stress.

I just went through this with my ex and health insurance. It really doesn't matter what he wants to do. He is bound to that divorce judgement. Keep you receipts and talk to the agency that handles child support.

Jillybean - well thank you - my lawyer said basically he is in contempt because he hasn't been paying all of his 1/2 of the activities - which he did agree to - now whether this all gets changed well that will be up to our lawyers and a judge I guess - I just don't want to go on day in and day out with another issue - a new one everyday - you know... Thank you again for your comments...

Hi,

It's getting late and I have to get some sleep so I don't have time to read all the responses that go before me. I apologize if I have repeated any of their information.

Your post has many similarities to my exH and my daughters. A brief note about us, my exH left on Xmas Day when our 3 daughters were 7, 5 and not yet 2. ExH absolutely HAD to have his visitations when he first left as to throw OW in my face, and took kids every other week for about 1 year. Then he started slacking off. Not the kids are 12, almost 11 and 5 and we have some similar experiences as yours.

He has not given any of the girls a Xmas gift in the last 3 Christmas's. (Should we expect him too, he walked out on Christmas too).

I too, used to be "the good guy" and remind the kids to call their dad. Half the time they didn't want to and I'd bribe them. "oh he misses you, he'd love to hear from you".

Well 4 years later, and after he missed 4 seasons of soccer, ballet, parent teacher conferences, graduation, he has missed it all.

And now my 12 year old is "old enough" and she doesn't want to speak to him or call him. If he happens to call (about once every other month), she'll get on the phone, but she has a terrible attitute with him.

Anyway, I have to say that when an ex does those types of things , and what you describe of yours, it gets tough for the other parent to keep trying to help their relationships. At some point, you have had enough and you let go. You can't protect the kids from their own father, and you can't help him have a good relationship and for whatever reason you two divorced, he may be showing those same disrespectful traits towards the kids even.

Don't feel guilty, let the relationship between the kids and their dad be their own. He can take them to counseling, he can go to counseling, he can stand up and be a better dad if he doesn't like how it is now.

And it sounds like he's using all that for an excuse to get out of paying for support.

I don't recall if your original agreement was on paper, if it was, he's obligated, take him back and violate him with all your receipts.

If it was verbal, you might want to think about going back to court and making it legal on paper.

Every state is different. In our state, when a non-custodial parent pays support, that goes towards extra cirriculars and they don't pay more than their percent. Our state is 29% for 3 kids and 25% of their gross pay for 2 kids.

Every 3 years you can ask for an increase based on the fact that the kids are getting older, and older kids cost more and have more extra cirriculars.

I also don't know if you claim all the kids, mine gets 1, I claim 2 but you might have to use that as a bargaining tool, but make sure you write in your order "only if all support owed is paid in full" so if he gets behind on his support, it defaults and you could claim both kids.

I couldn't afford a lawyer at first either, but after a month of searching, I found one that let me make payments. I had to make payments for about 2 months, then they started the paperwork, and I continued to make a monthly payment until it was paid off.

In the longrun, you might get more money with a lawyer.

Also in our state, visitation and support are 2 seperate entities and have nothing to do with another. If the ex NEVER takes the kids, they STILL owe support. In the same respect, if they NEVER pay support, you STILL have to send the kids for a visit.

I think being a good parent is about being responsible and if they don't pay they shouldn't see the kids, and if they don't see the kids, they should pay MORE to account for what the kids lack , but of course, I'm a betrayed spouse from way back!

You can go to www.childsupport.com and select child support Law and look up the laws in your state. I haven't heard of the court adding in extra cirriculars but you'd probably have to bring in some proof that the kids were in it BEFORE exH left and stress to the judge that you can not keep them in dance without his share.

My daughter is 12 and tells me she "hates" her dad. I feel sorry for him because she's a great girl, straight A's, star soccer player, and her own dad knows nothing about her. It's his loss as much as it is when a child loses a parent.

I think it's important that you respect the kids' feelings and if their dad does stupid things like giving 1 more gifts than the other, they have a right to judge him as they did.

Sorry so long, so many similarities set me in a mood! I'll try to return later this week to see how you were doing.

Dana B

DanaB - Well I guess I hit a nerve huh??? And you know I don't blame you - it is very hard when the person you chose to have children with turns out to be the biggest child of them all.. yes all of my orders are stated on paper and were accepted by the court at the time of the divorce - The extra stuff that they do dance and other stuff - they have been doing for nine and ten years - so it isn't like it is new .. And he agreed to it all in the beginning - at this point whether a judge makes him pay for the extra stuff anymore - well you know what I have to take my chances and try to get settled again once and for all because I am not going to be subjected to this crap all of the time - then have thrown back in my face all you are concerned about is the money - that is absolute crap - it is him that is concerned about the money - I mean I am busting my butt trying to keep the house for the kids - living next to the OW - doing absolutely everything for my kids - in fact not having a life of my own - because I am trying to continuing giving my girls the stable home that they had before their Dad left - it isn't easy I just keeping telling myself ok seven more years... And if it comes out that he doesn't have to pay the stuff well fine then I will get a second job to cover the cost - but in the meantime - I am not taking the blame for anything anymore - he screwed up his relationship with his daughters - he continues to all of the time.. He tries to make me feel bad so I will try to as you said bribe the kids or guilt them into being with him - because I need and deserve a break - well that is where I have stopped doing that and in return they have stopped talking to him pretty much - so he is going to go along crying oh she is turning them against me - to anyone and everyone that will listen - as he calls them once a week and says do you want to go with me - they say no he says ok - .. At this point I think I have given up - I love my kids more than anything in the world and again I am sorry that their Dad has turned out to be very selfish and self centered but that isnt my problem that is his problem and he is going to be the one that looses in the long run .. All I can do at this point is hope someday he sees the light or be their for them if in fact he never does... Thank you very much for taking the time to share your experiences with me -- to let me know that it is ok to let him just sort of take the responsibility for his own actions...

Mimi,
How are things going? I sure do hope that you can get your child support stuff worked out, it is so hard. My X hasn't sent me a dime in 13 months now....in fact he owes me $26,000, and every month that ticks by he owes $2,000 more. They just don't get it......They don't realize what they are cheating their kids out of. Plus, he's supposed to be paying their health insurance...which I'm doing. Let me know how you are. I hope things get better.

P.S.
Guess what, Mimi? My X has the kids this weekend. He saw the kids at Christmas and told them he was going to start taking them every other weekend, so on Wed. night, I told the kids to get on the phone and ask when he was coming to get them. I am going to press the every other weekend thing, because he needs to experience having them, buying things for them, feeding them....and I need some time!!!
By the way, I think I've met a really nice guy, so my free weekends may be tied up!
Take care.
KK

KK2002 - Well good for you a man.That is awesome - That is what I hope for me - well at least someone to spend sometime with -sometime in the future... My girls are the ones that don't really want to go with their Dad - why ??? Well probably because he acts like an A** you know?? Like they owe him something which I really think is way off base... You sound like you are doing better... And as for 26000.00 take him to court and make him pay for it.. I mean they tend to throw men in jail who are complete dead beat dads - there really is no excuse for that and that makes my little money issues pety - which I know they might be - but it is the principal of the fact that the girls did this stuff before and why should I have to pay for everything when he agreed to pay - and why do I have to be the caregiver 100% of the time.. I know it is his loss - but is it fair - to me ?? To the girls?? I don't know but soon I think I am just gonna have to accept that this is the way that it is - he says he is wonderful and I am turning them against him - over and over and over... ugggg - I will make it through this - I just need to not let him press my buttons anymore... So email me and let me know about the new man....

Hey Mimi,

I just remembered my password and could log in and post again. How long has it been since you had the D signed? If it has been close to a year (at least 6 months), just go to your local child support enforcement office and set up for a modification. they will look at ex's income, your income, time of custody in the past year and set up new Child Support numbers.

That you have extra curriculars written into the agreement means it is a legal, binding document. Provide copies of receipts you have paid and ask for his 1/2. If he refuses to pay, you may have to take it into court, but you can handle that part yourself as it is a "different" type of court than the divorce hearing. Basically, you bring in the agreement, the copies of receipts, the request for payment, and the judge (or commissioner of the court) listens to your side and your ex's side and makes a decision.

Might also help to document times of ex phoning and taking the kids. I keep a small calender for each year and note whether or not Dippy called or note specific court dates and things like that in it. Dippy hasn't called but about 5 times in 2 years.

Hope everything else is going well for you!

Lori