Here's the question..
Do I go or not?

On Friday, a good friend's daughter is having her farewell party before leaving for overseas on a working holiday-- she's 19yrs old. Her mother is EX's best-friend, a single Mom of 3 kids. I've always been seen as a type of surrogate father to them, and we were quite close at some stage. They even lived with us in one house when they had no where to go.

The EX and her OM/BF will be there.Do I go to the party and grin and bear it for the D's sake? The thought of being at a social gathering with the OM [censored] is enough to bring on a gag response. I don't want to go and spoil the D's party, but why should this idiot get to be there and not me? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />
D will miss me, and may be disappointed I don't come, think I do not care enough, whatever.

Already he has been socialising with our friends, and my one-time bud has told me that "he's quite a nice guy". So the humiliation continues. I've decided to cut ties with them. Their kids and ours are friends, so everyone's lives are intertwined. I still need to interact with them at some level. Tell me, how can there be such wide-spread acceptance of this kind of betrayal by your one-time friends?
Don't people care enough?
I get the feeling that everyone wishes that I would just "get over it". Maybe I should, but it's kinda hard picturing me shaking the hand of, and making small talk with, the man who scr*w*d my wife, and still has her, while at the same time still has his family intact.
I'd just as soon knock his block off.

Merely going over this in my mind has had the effect of getting me feeling positively murderous, and I don't like it.

Any advice welcome

muzohead

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> D will miss me, and may be disappointed I don't come, think I do not care enough, whatever.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you go, you will be going for her and not XW and OM.

If mother is XW's best friend, perhaps this is also a relationship that you should also cut ties with in order to help yourself.

Can you contact friend or D and explain the situation and say your farewell without taking the risk of an uncomfortable situation for you or them?

Muzohead - I don't have any advice I just sort of feel the same way that you do - I would love it if everyone stopped talking to me ex because of the hurt that he caused me - but in the real world the simple fact is that - he didn't divorce them he divorced me - and while I will continue to have this horrible feeling in the pit of my stomach about the two of them - most people just let it go by the wayside because it really doesn't directly have an impact on their day to day life... Now the question is - Do you go to this party?? Well could you maybe go a little before everyone and leave just before your ex and OM show up - ?? Or could you drop by after everyone has left?? Or maybe just send her a going away card to let her know that you know she is leaving but you will be unfortunately unable to attend???

WishIwereHome:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> If mother is XW's best friend, perhaps this is also a relationship that you should also cut ties with in order to help yourself. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I thought about this, and I would quite easily, except that the end result is, the OM is dictating where I go and who I associate with(??). Already this happens to some extent-- I simply avoid goin where he is, but this time I WANT to be there.

After speaking to a close friend, I called D's Mom, and explained my conflict. She suggested that she call EXW and ask not to bring OM. I told her I'd think about it before she does. She told me she far prefers me to be there, and that D would as well. She sounded uncomfortable though, as if she wishes I hadn't brought it up. I don't want to cause any unnecessary conflict or discomfort for anybody, but I cannot bear the thought of this _ _ _ being the cause of my missing this moment with D and family.

My close friend suggested I go, and just be the family man, the one with a history and bond, and this would make OM uncomfortable. After considering this, I still don't trust myself to avoid being rude or disrespectful to OM in that situation, and I cannot do that do D or Mom. Don't want to ruin anybody's evening.

MAW64:
I don't have a problem dealing with the ex socially- I need to have a relationship with her because of the children, and we get along just fine.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well could you maybe go a little before everyone and leave just before your ex and OM show up - ?? Or could you drop by after everyone has left?? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, I'm not going to sneak around like someone who doesn't belong. I thought about buying her a gift and taking her to dinner, but it adds up to the same: I belong there and he doesn't. It's just not right. I'm just so tired of being so accomodating to everybody.

muzohead

Muzo,
You HAVE to go. You did nothng wrong, why should you be embarrassed( I know you are not embarrassed, but didn't know what word to use.)

I had to deal with this at my kids sportng events. Fortunetly, my x isn't friendly towards people and doesn't speak to many people.

I have/had a friend and his wife that readily accepted the om and my x. X and her om bought a house to these people. The woman was one of the first people I told about my then wife's affair. Now she walks by me without speakng, like I did something wrong. He husband told me that the samething, "he isn't such a bad guy."

A serial philanderer, who can't hold a job, isn't a bad guy????? He did lend my friend(x-friend) his lawn mower. So I guess that's where that came from.

So best I can say is grin and bear it. Its for your friend's d and its for your kids too. Be polite, avoid x and om and have a good time.

Bob

RWD:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> The woman was one of the first people I told about my then wife's affair. Now she walks by me without speakng, like I did something wrong </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My guess is, she's embarrassed, and wishes the problem would just go away, or you would just go away. I get that feeling...as if your presence is a reminder that they are condoning the ex's behaviour or affair. One also never really knows what the friends are told. I also get the feeling that folks think that if you're dumped, then you must be bad news, or something. I think this may apply mostly to guys, but I may be wrong...it's just that everyone I meet who doesn't know the story, assumes that I'm divorced because I scr*w*d around on my wife. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

muzohead

Muzohead - I didn't mean to offend you - I think you should be there but I figured since you were so conflicted about how you would feel then this could be alternative.. And by all means you have the right to be there - and he doesn't but - if he is going with your ex - then I am sure your ex feels that he has a right to be there... I haven't had to deal with this and heres to hoping I don't have to - because I know that I would have a hard time dealing with it... But I guess you have to do what is more important to you - making this girl who has been a part of your life happy - or not going because you might be uncomfortable because the OM is there - !!! I am sure in the end you will do what makes you feel ok .... Good luck in your decision

I say go. Go and be nice to everybody. Suck it in. And smile alot. It will make xw and OM wonder what you're up to.

Talk to the family and daughter. Make the most of your visit and focus on what is the real issue. Not your xw and OM.

I firmly believe they want you to feel out of sorts. But it's not you; it should be them. When you act confident and smile and hold your head up and wear a spiffy outfit, you say to everybody there "I am not the one with the problem, they are".

If your xw and OM try to force OM on you, say "this isn't the place thank you" and turn away and socialize with somebody else. My x tries this and I don't give any credence to his sham of a marriage to the OW. I am not going to passively or actively validate their bad choices. So what if he's a nice guy? He screwed around with a married woman. So he's not that nice.

I'd even say bring a date if you feel good about it. I will if the situation ever presents itself like that, adult party pretty much. But I hope I won't be anywhere near my xh and FV.

Just keep your cool and look good and smile. Everybody will go away saying "man, he's really together" or "what a good stand up guy he is". And remember, perception is everything. Even if OM comes up to you and tries to say, shake your hand then say "this isnot the place" quietly and smile at him and turn your back. Nobody will hear what you said and your body language will be positive and you will be non engaging him so it willl look like he's the idiot with the problem. I did that and it is a good thing to do.

The focus is your friend and their daughter. By not participating, you are sending message that it's ok to run over my life and it's fine that you flaunt your sin everywhere. I am not doing that.

Just be a gentleman and go and smile and be friendly to everybody. You can do it muzo! We know you can <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Peachy:
What a pity you posted this after I spoke to D's Mom! The way you explain what I should be like is really the best advice on the subject so far. Pity I won't get to use it now.
You know what happened, I confided in the girl's mother, and explained my conlict: she immediately suggested that she (D's mom)speak to my ex, and get OM not to come, since both she & D wanted me there.
I said "ok, but don't do anything yet, I'll think about it"
Well, she went ahead and did it, told me that I was coming, and OM not. I spoke to ex, and asked her how she felt about it. She asked if this was always going to be a problem (1st time in 2&1/2 years), and that I should learn to get along with OM. She started saying how this would destroy me, and so on.....
Now she may have had a few good things to say, but nothing different than some of the things I had been telling myself. I said that if that was all she had to say, then we had nothing to say. I felt that I had been doing a good job of avoiding all interaction with OM, all I wanted was a bit of consideration for this occasion.
Obviously she spoke again to her friend, and next thing you know, I get a message that the party's been cancelled. (not cancelled, just subtly telling me to stay away ). My guess is, that ex told her friend that she would stay away if i was there, or something like that, because her friend accused both of us of being childish.
This is exactly what I feared would happen if I tried to broach the subject with her, hence my hesitation. I should know her by now, I know.

Her friend's attitude is baffling, however, but since I have no idea what was said by the ex, I cannot blame her exactly. I've decided that anything connected to the ex is best cut out of my life. This includes the friend.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Just keep your cool and look good and smile. Everybody will go away saying "man, he's really together" or "what a good stand up guy he is". And remember, perception is everything. Even if OM comes up to you and tries to say, shake your hand then say "this isnot the place" quietly and smile at him and turn your back. Nobody will hear what you said and your body language will be positive and you will be non engaging him so it willl look like he's the idiot with the problem. I did that and it is a good thing to do.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Even though I'm not going, I'll write this down and keep it somewhere for future use. I like that " this is not the place line! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Maw64:
No, you didn't offend me at all. I was busy blowing flame and hot ashes 'cos this thing really got my goat. I haven't used the <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> icon in a lo-o-ng time.

Unfortunately my ex has obviously manipulated everything to her advantage, as if it were some kind of competition. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Oh well, 2 less Christmas cards I have to buy this year <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
muzohead

Sorry bout that. You know..you could always "drop by" and bring a small gift during the time the party was to be in full swing..

You could kill two birds with one stone actually...I would "drop by with a gift" and when the idiot hostess answers door, I would smile, of course be well dressed and it would be better if you had somebody with you, a female and an attractive one perhaps...and say...

"Well, friend and I were in the neighborhood and saw a few cars and decided to come by. I WAS COMING BY ANYWAY TO GIVE YOU THIS and am glad you've decided to have the party anyway. I would come in briefly and smile and be very jovial. Be smiling, happy and STICK IT TO THEM WITH KINDNESS.

The hostess will feel like crawling under her welcome mat. YOur x and OM will feel like idiots too. It will be cool. I'd do it for sure.

And then after about ten minutes max, I would say to hostess and anybody listening, "well friend and I are off and we have some dinner reservations...sorry to run off but I hope you all have a good night."

I'd call that PUTTING THE BALL BACK IN YOUR COURT. Make them feel out of sorts. Make them feel ashamed because they SHOULD.

Be the better man. Show who really is the good guy. It's you and always was.

That will take some cajones, but you can do it. I suggest you work on getting the dinner date now and make that a priority. Plus you will have a nicer evening after that with your friend anyhow.

Mozo,

I agree with Peachy--

If you have a lady friend you can take to dinner--
even if just as friends--and stop by to drop off a gift on the way--and say good bye to the young lady--

They will feel like heel's--

MMMM, pity I couldn't do that. My weekend with the kids, and I had to drop off youngest at sleep-over at his school-

I've decided that the best for me is to avoid all contact with them. Friend asked me to get her a PC for home office use, (she's resigned and going to work at home). I have the PC all organised now, (no charge), but with such a bitter taste in my mouth, I will not be delivering it. Funny thing is, my ex also asked me recently to assist her with a PC she needs for home business (so she doesn't have to wait if sons are busy on theirs).

I'm in no mood to do anyone any favors. Think I'm being nasty?

Anyway, I have a good model for behaviour now, thanks to Peachy's suggestions, should I run into OM at a social gathering. I think I will no longer avoid going to my friends, just 'cos he might be there.

Thorned Rose:
Yeah, I'm so-o-o disappointed I didn't get to do that this time 'round.
Peachy:
Sounds like you have lots of experience in this department!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

muzo

muzohead,


==Friend asked me to get her a PC for home office use, (she's resigned and going to work at home). I have the PC all organised now, (no charge), but with such a bitter taste in my mouth, I will not be delivering it.

TR--hmmm why not deliver it the day of the canx party--I mean--if the party has been cancelled it could be an opportune time to deliver said computer--as there won't be any guest's there--


--Funny thing is, my ex also asked me recently to assist her with a PC she needs for home business (so she doesn't have to wait if sons are busy on theirs).

TR--I'd say NO!! Let her new b/f buy her a computer--that comes w/ being divorced--you no longer have to provide those things for her--

I'm in no mood to do anyone any favors. Think I'm being nasty?

TR--Nope--not nasty--just setting your own boundaries--

well, all the various ideas (peachy, etc.) sound fine if one is into game playing...and I am not saying game playing can't be useful, but it should be carefully applies, and I don't think this is the time or place. This isn't about you or your exw or the om, this is about a yound woman going off on a serious deal, why isn't the focus on HER. If you are the family friend you seem to be, and she wants you to be there...then go. Who cares who else may be there, and I am sure you are man enough to behave yourself. Certainly you don't have to maybe stay a long time, or seek out interactions with your exw...but ya know muze, feelings are feelings, but we don't have to act on them....so your w has a bf you don't like, such is life, it is only a big deal if you make it a big deal. Now if the exw and/or om are aggressive, and gonna get in your face, then the hostess (and d) need to be made aware of that, and decide how they want to handle it....and if they treat you poorly, then I guess you know what you need to know. IMO the guest list is up to the hostess, and if you and exw are on it, but om is not, that is her choice, best friend or not. This is one of those not so clear circumstances one has to adjust for....but I have to say, apparently you have been sep/div a couple of years, if so it is unreasonable to expect people to make much accomodation for you (be different if was very recent).

Your w is single, hopefully the om is single, and it really isn't any of your business to pass judgement on each others choice of partners...period. Further the om should be judged on his own merits, if he is a jerk, fine....if he is an ok guy, then at the least it shouldn't be that difficult to let it go muzo ones spouse is not property, and although an affair is not an acceptable manner to start a relationship, and needs to end until the marriage is resolved, it is not justification to harbor illwill indefinitely....relationships are voluntary choices, and your w chose to leave (I assume) why she left is irrelevant, it is the choice we all have, and everyone has to accept each others choices.... if not, then she can mess with you and any choices you make in the future too, if she doesn't apporove. You are a smart guy, I know you know this stuff.....let it go, and treat exw and whoever she is with with basic civility, or more if they are worthy.

I am curious about something muzo, don't know if this om is worthy, or just a self-serving predator (and your wife a blind idiot), but if a marriage fails (and affairs don't end marriages, people end the marriage cause that is what they choose to do...don't know if you or exw chose, but makes no difference), and one of the "symptons" of the dysfunctional marriage was an inappropriate extra-marital relationship, wouldn't the best outcome be your w choosing an affair with someone that is good for her (if that is the case)? Or would you rather she dumped the om cause of the social disapproval, and selected some loser that everyone "approves" of? Since the harley's (who are the experts) and most psychologists as well, beleive everyone is capable of infidelity under the right circumstances, it makes no sense to "judge" someone simply on that basis alone.... is that what you are doing with this om? Or is he a predator?

In any event, predator or not, I think focusing on the d makes more sense here, and I have no problem with ignoring the om while you are there. And I prefer that behavior to some kind of gameplaying at the expense of the d and hostess, indeed that is not the time or place for such behavior.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> but I have to say, apparently you have been sep/div a couple of years, if so it is unreasonable to expect people to make much accomodation for you (be different if was very recent).
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Mmmm, don't know if you quite get it, SUFDB...point is, I don't socialise with my ex and/or her BF. This one occasion is what made me attempt to re-evaluate evrything, including whether or not I should "just get over it", so to speak. The time-frame here is irrelevant- the fact that BF is the OM, and that he is exactly the predator you describe, makes the whole thing distateful to me.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> don't know if this om is worthy, or just a self-serving predator (and your wife a blind idiot), </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">...the latter

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">wouldn't the best outcome be your w choosing an affair with someone that is good for her (if that is the case)? Or would you rather she dumped the om cause of the social disapproval, and selected some loser that everyone "approves" of? Since the harley's (who are the experts) and most psychologists as well, beleive everyone is capable of infidelity under the right circumstances, it makes no sense to "judge" someone simply on that basis alone.... is that what you are doing with this om? Or is he a predator?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So you're saying that although it is public knowledge that the OM is an active serial cheater, and is busy cheating on his wife while we share jokes and drinks and laughter, this is OK(??) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> What has happened to common decency?
Let me try to answer anyway.
1. He lied to her about being single when they met, told truth after he slept with her (how much truth, I don't know)
2. Not the 1st time affair for him
3. 2 years down the line, she still doesn't have his home phone number (not listed at work either)
4. Last year Christmas holidays, he never returned her phone-calls, messages, never answered his phone, never called her once for the entire month and a half,
5. He told her his common-law wife would be out by end of 2001, she's still living with him, and as far as I know, she knows nothing of his affair
6. 2 months after our divorce, my ex nearly had a breakdown because of her relationship with him, she stayed out of work, was depressed, I had to hold her hand and build her up--
7. He has such a hold over her, that she misses her son's prize-giving because at one stage he only visited her on Tuesdays??
I could go on....
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And I prefer that behavior to some kind of gameplaying at the expense of the d and hostess, indeed that is not the time or place for such behavior.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I disagree. The "gameplaying" you refer to is a better way of handling the situation with diplomacy and grace, rather than ignoring the OM altogether, which may be construed as rudeness. The whole point is not to sour the evening for the the hostess and D, but as you can see, that ship has now sailed.

muzohead

muzohead,

Just a couple of questions--

Do you know his wife or common-law wife? If so why not contact her and let her know of the ongoing affair??


--2 months after our divorce, my ex nearly had a breakdown because of her relationship with him, she stayed out of work, was depressed, I had to hold her hand and build her up--

TR--Why after your divorce did you have to hold her hand and build her up?? That wasn't your responsibility anymore--That come's with the divorce--they need to figure out how to build themselves up--and figure things out for themselves--also probably why she hasn't come back to you--

You've apparently continued to meet some of her need's when OM hasn't been available to do so--

It appears that she hasn't learned to totally depend on HIM to meet her needs--and you haven't allowed him to fail to meet them--so that she could take an honest look at herself and what is really going on---

When you step out of the picture--and allow her to look only to him to meet her needs---and he can't--in the way's that make her feel loved and cared for--her eye's will begin to open up as to what she has given up--

So again DO NOT give her a computer--do NOT fix her computer--allow her to figure this out on her own--or look to OM to meet that need for her--if you don't--she will never learn the truth--

ThornedRose:
Thanks for echoing what a recently acquired good friend is telling me. I've been reasonably good about boudaries up to now, (the hand-holding thing happened a while ago), but I do still have a soft spot for the Ex, unfortunately.
I have always been able to forgive her for just about anything.(yeah, I know, sucker).
I'm not going to help her with anything for herself, and will only assist when diretcly affecting my kids' wellbeing.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do you know his wife or common-law wife? If so why not contact her and let her know of the ongoing affair??
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Don't know her, so not my business, or my place. That will cause an almighty mess. If I did know her personally, I may have told her. Always a difficult thing to do, isn't it?

My disappointment in the ex is more on the level of common decency and consideration as a human being. That she could so easily dismiss a fairly reasonable request. I have no desire at this stage to reconcile with her.
My hope for her is that she sees him for what he is, and escapes the relationship, before she's destroyed when HE dumps her, or chooses his wife above her. That will destroy her.

muzohead

muzohead,

Loving someone enough to forgive them doesn't make you a sucker--

I could forgive my ex-h anything--and did--but I could no longer live married and alone--it wasn't enough for me--and his being home every night as a husband and father wasn't what he wanted for himself--he wanted to continue to work away from home and do as he pleased--so when he made the choice to pack his things and move out--I didn't stop him--it was his choice--I just had to learn to accept it--so that I could move forward--

Which I did--I remarried last month---to someone who WANTS to be here--and has no desire to travel
anywhere alone again (he spent 21 years in the Military)we have so much fun together--sure we have our struggles and such--but we work through them--together as a team--and through that we know that we both want the best for each other--

we actually like each other--beyond the romantic love--and have a deep respect for one another--which makes the 'romantic love' even better--

muzo, it is tough trying to make points that are somewhat situational, and not know the situation. Ok, the om is a low-life predator, and your wife incapable of exercising competent judgement....I get it.

In this situation, IMO it was irrelevant whether the om was there or not, the occassion was for the d. You would just choose to ignore him, and the exw, perhaps alerting the hostess to your intended demeanor should they enter your "space".

In the general case, I am in full agreement to respond to the predator as one responds to any predator, with equivalent force (in the social sense), in no way would I validate or accept him....not cause he is the om, but because I would not accept or interact with anyone with those characteristics.