I don't recall your custody arrangement.
My X would also call me loud.
I like your comments that you try to spend time with the kids and keep chores for other times.
I do this too. However, I have the kids 2/3 to his 1/3, which means that some chores must get done while the kids are with me - and this means that I'm not spending one on one time with them.
If MP has the children more, is it possible that all cannot get done on her time without the kids.

I have also moved into a new home, and it takes time to renovate and organize a new home. So some of these activities occur when I am with my kids. And I can't always take them where they want to go - although I make a valiant effort. So perhaps they are forgetting what their mom does for them, and only focusing on what she's not doing for them.
My daughter asked if I was going to attend an event at school and I said Yes, did you ask dad. Her answer "Why, he never attends!"

And this weekend our plans are:
Friday - see a high school play
Sat am - ballet 2 hours
Sat afternoon - birthday party
Sunday - church

And I've found that sometimes my kids just need to relax in their own home rather than run around the mall. They can ride bikes, play games, do art projects etc in their own home.

Again, I can't recall the kids ages or the situation. I'm just making some points.

EDIT: Three girls, nearly 10, 8, and 6.

I'm not at all knocking staying home...I do it most of the time. I don't believe in hanging out at the mall. We go and buy what may be needed, or look at something we may want, or eat. Never are the kids on their own, free to roam, etc. But if we are walking by the pet store and they want to go, we will stop. If they want to walk into a crafts store, we will go. BAsically only bath and body works is avoided...LOL. I'm a guy, afterall. We may go to the local indoor communnity pool for an hour or two. If I need to go shopping, I nearly always go with them. Not without them. Sure, it's easier and quicker alone, but I'd rather do it together. I take them to school every morning. Sure, we could wait for the bus, but it is a 10 minute drive, and I enjoy spending those 10 minutes together everyday.

Currently, the kids go to mom's everyday after school, just before 4. I pick them up (or they are brought to my place) around 7:30 everynight that mom works. So they see both of us everyday, except the weekends, and even then they often see us. Everyone calls on the phone when we are not at the other's house, nearly everyday. Weekends are every other.

They are in been at my house anywhere from 8:30 to 9:30 at night. Usually right around 9:15. They awake between 7 and 7:45, so that's 10 hours for the youngest (she wakes up at 7:45), and no less than 9 hours for anyone. I get much less sleep, perhaps 6 hours.

The schedule follow's mom's work time...so her day off rotates around some. Mom is working nights.

So, the time is really about 50/50, if you count "awake" time.

We had a long talk last night about mom and dad's house, the kids and I. I have asked them to listen to mom more, to do what she asks, not talk back, etc. I don't think they have any understanding of how much "troubles" they cause mom...and then how much trouble that feeds back to me.

I'm not out trying to get anyone mad or anything else. Contrary to what mp22 believes, my life does not focus on making her's miserable. I do not coach the kids into pissing her off. I am just being the father that I want to be. And by the way, I attend all school functions, nearly all fieldtrips, etc.

I made a choice, nearly 10 years ago, that my kids come first. period. And I live that choice.
It bothers me that things are being "held against me", if not on purpose, than certainly in spirit, becuase of the relationship I have with them.

Just like people are different and have different expectations of marriage, most certainly people are different in how they parent and their expectations of the kids, raising kids, etc. No, I don't want my daughter saying "I like boobs...I want to touch your boobs". And when she does say such things, she is told this is not appropriate. (And we talked about that last night too). But I am also fairly certain that must young girls are aware of boobs, and think there's something "neat" about them. Just like little boys think there's something about what we have. I'm certainly not out condoning any lude or provacative behavior in my children, but I'm not going to physically rip a bra off of them if they put one on and stuff it with socks and walk around the house, playing house, being the mom, etc. Heck, I think I remember doing that a few times when I was 8, and I'm male. And very straight...LOL. So, don't all young girls do these things? Aren't they all aware of their developing bodies to some extent? Sure, our daughter is not shy, she's out there and will speak her mind...WONDERFUL THINGS...very different than her mother (and i think that is the key)...BUT, in my opinion, not in need of being sent away to reform school, or put down so much, and so strongly, that all she is going to do is build up misery and anger towards the "oppressor". I just think there's better ways of handling things.

I think becuase I do things differntly, and yeah, with much less yelling and "punishment", with more "thought provoking responses" (provoking thought in my kids mind I hope), then I get this "attack" against me.

I don't hit my kids at all. I won't spank, I won't slap them across the face, none of these things.

I don't think it is fair, nor do I think it is even correct.

My expectations are very different I believe than are mp22's, from kids, parenting, and life. That indeed was one of our huge problems in marriage.

But now I feel that my parenting is being attacked, becuase the kids apparently voice some kind of "at daddy's house", which I have also asked them to stop saying.

Furthermore, a month or so ago I posted a thread here about how to deal with issues regarding mp22 and how she acts towards the kids. "Advice" was given to me like, call Child and Protective Services, etc. No, I don't think that is at all necessary. What I was hoping to achieve was some advice about HOW to COMMUNICATE with mp22 about her behaviors, about some of her choices, expectations. Since I am the spawn of satan, nothing I say is ever considered, listened to, or allowed to sink in with any kind of interspection taking place. Therefore, I asked, and I ask again, what can I do?

That is why, when I saw this thread, I thought perhaps this could be that avenue, an open, monitored dialogue where all people can see and comment. But I also offered to step away and say nothing.

People make choices...hopefully they are educated choices and choices they believe in and stand behind. I stand behind how I interact with my kids. It indeed does bother me that one will call things into question, just becuase they are different than her methods. Sure, I get upset, my patience are not unlimited. Nor am I perfect.


EDIT: While rereading this, I had a though. To his day, I will say my parents had little to NO involvement in my life. I was a "good" kid, I never got into any trouble. So, therefore, I assume I wasn't on the radar screen, so I was basically ignored. They never fostered my interests, never encouraged me to do anything, and never were directly involved in my day to day life. I can't remember then attending my sports events. So, I won't be that way with my kids. I encourage, foster, etc.

<small>[ April 01, 2004, 12:40 PM: Message edited by: bp22 ]</small>

Do you have the book Mom's House/Dad's House. It gives great ideas about parenting plans.
And even suggests business meetings between the parent's to discuss the children (only).
there are many other books which are great resources.

And remember, children, especially girls, are manipulative. They will play that game of "at X's house". Do what you feel is right. Trust your parenting instincts and know that they are safe with the mother - if only physically.
This is a lesson in letting go for all of us.
My X isn't the parent I wanted for my children, but he's a much better parent than when we were together (since he never spent time with them then.)

Life will settle down into routines. Relax and help your children grow into emotionally healthy people.

and here's another reminder for the Rainbows classes, www.rainbows.org

Thanks newly...I'll have to buy the book, maybe two copies.

Bought two copies of "5 Love Languages of Children" in the past of a referal from here.

YES, you are VERY correct, about a lesson in letting go. It is REALLY hard to do, but I think I'm doing OK with it. I wish some of the things I had to let go of didn't invovle radon gas and such, but what can I do??

When I talked to the kids last night, I told them that this "at dad's house, dad says, etc" crap has to stop. I have never heard a "at mom's house..." from them...so I guess I can only assume, based on mp22's comments, that they say such things at her house.

Thanks!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> radon gas </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Does this mean she has a radon problem in this house? How high is it really, and are the kids in the room (ie. basement) and really exposed to it.
My house level is 4, which is not a concern to me, and we spend very little time in my basement.

Yes, her new house has a radon problem...as do most in that area.

A radon abatement system was installed...and apparently testing was done after the installation, however no results have been learned yet. However, the basement is the primary play place for the kids.

I have asked mp22 to truely consider this...as we aren't talking philosophy, religion, etc. here...we are talking long term health of OUR children.

She basically won't talk to me on this issue. I have purchased a "radon test kit" myself and wanted to set it in her basement to measure the levels, but was not allowed to do so.

So, what do I do?

I at requested that they at least don't go in the basement until the new test is done and understood. But alas, I'm just a controlling, abusive husband.

Sorry, I don't know how else to handle this. If it were anything in the other direction, for example, watching 5 minutes of Scream, which is indeed extremely scarey, then I get nailed to the cross. But when it is the potential of their health...

Perhaps the insights and comments of others will open so hearts and ears.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> So, what do I do?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You learn to let it go. She's done what she can be having the abatement system installed. The system probably has a guarantee of abating the problem to a certain level.

And I would guess that they are not sleeping in the basement every night, are they? So exposure is limited and even more so if windows are opened.

Are you in the NE like me. I didn't even bother with the abatement system. My house sat empty for a year, which is why I believe the level was high.

I'd be happy if it were monitored, to learn and prove its effectiveness, and I've offered to gladly pay. The peace of mind is a good thing.

New York state...house has been occupied. It's an older house and is in good shape. The basement is a combination of concrete block and "full basement" and crawlspaces. Concrete has been poured...so I do believe with a properly installed and engineer system, it should be OK. I'd just like to monitor it, and make sure all is OK. Just like the water temp guage in your car...if it runs, it's probably OK, but you'd like to know if something is wrong, before the steam comes a' blowing out.

But like you say...and this is the best example for me...you let go. If they come down with lung cancer when they are 31, I'll look at their mother and say...well, hope it was worth it...

Letting it go...really, I am. LOL

By the way mp22...in the previous thread, people said all sorts of things about you maybe "wanting your cake and eating it too".

Well, I don't really subscribe to that theory...so if you need something done in the house, feel free to ask. Like the bulb in the stairs I hear about being out....LOL.

Hi bp22,

As I mentioned very early in this thread, I had an emotional reaction to it--I didn't know why, I only knew that I did. I think I've figured out some of the "why" and then I realized something else....

To mp22--I need to apologize to you for the threadjack. I thought I had learned to recognize early when I was participating in a threadjack and I sincerely apologize for blowing it on your thread. I will do better--and I will take extra care to do better when it is one of your threads. Thank you for being gracious about it on this thread. This is my feeble attempt to do better now--talk directly to you on your thread.

In my experience, some things work the same for each parent dealing with the same child and some things don't. In the cases where the same things don't work, I suspect it might have to do with the dynamics of the age and sex of the child and the sex of the parent.

One example of something that worked for both me and my h is when my son was about 3 and started kicking people when he was angry, frustrated, or just plain wanted his own way. First thing was to protect the child who was being kicked by getting between them. Second thing was to address son--I took his shoes (because they were being used as weapons) and he lost the privilege of using his shoes for a specified time. He couldn't go outside without shoes so he had to stay in until time was up. He couldn't go anywhere in the car either if he had no shoes. I admit, sometimes there was a surprise McDonald's trip that son missed out on--a surprise trip that wouldn't have happened without the kicking incident--but sometimes the consequences had to be higher <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Handling it this way worked for h too. But other times, both of us handling something the same way did not have the same effects at all--especially in the teen years <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Do you think you could ask their father to be supportive of your efforts with your daughter for the major things like hitting and kicking and inappropriate touching while you are finding what works for you in your house? Do you think he would be supportive while you did things your own best way? Maybe he would be willing to follow through with her in the ways that work for them when she goes to his house (even though the incident happened at your house) and maybe you could do the same when the incidents happen at his house? Or maybe he would be willing to address it with her and then give her time to reflect on her behavior privately instead of doing the enjoyable things that evening with him and the other children? What do you think about this idea? Could it work in your situation?

Another thing that struck me from one of bp22's posts is that since you work nights, when the kids get home from school it is probably your "morning" even though it's not a.m. hours on the clock. I don't know about you, but if my kids had gotten home from school in the "morning" especially if I also had to get ready for a work shift things would have been a LOT different--and a lot more difficult for me. I can't imagine taking them to the playground between my morning coffee and getting ready for work. After work would have been do-able for me sometimes, but not morning <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Is their school time your "night time" for sleep? Maybe others who have worked night shift have ideas for you?

Take care mp22. I'm sure you'll find what works for you.

P.S. I can relate to the lightbulb thing that bp22 mentioned--by the time my kids were 8 they all knew how to change a light bulb <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I think it's unrealistic to spend ALL of your time with your children. When the kids get home from school I am just getting up(i work nights as a nurse). I have dinner to cook, laundry to do etc. I need to go to bed by 10 am at the latest if i hope to be able to function and work again that night. Also, the kids want to be outside or over to their friend's house to play. They do not like to spend ALL of their time with their parents. They are getting older and they have their own lives. I am made to sound like I do nothing with my children and do nothing that they want to do. Unfortunately i do not have the money that their father has and cannot afford to bring them to movies and to Chuck E. Cheese all of the time. I can bring them to Subway fairly often or to go with them to mutual friend's houses where they play and I visit. They seem to be constantly busy when with Dad. This causes them to think that I should always be bringing them shopping for "stuff" that they want or going to movies. I feel that Daddy spoils them and I just don't have the means to do those kinds of things often. We rent movies when at my house and pop some popcorn in the microwave. It seems strange that we never had money to do anything when we were married, but now the money and activities abound. Just goes to show how important I was. I am glad that the kids are loved and get to do fun things when with Daddy. The kids just got home from a neighbor friend's and I need to go. Sorry for going on and on. I'm just tired of being accused of being a bad parent because I don't spend every second side by side with my children. Oh, I almost forgot. About the radon-- I spent $2000 for a radon mitigation system. The children have spent about 5 hours total in the finished basement since we've moved in 2 months ago. It is not their primary place to be. They play in their rooms, in the living room, outside, and at friend's houses. Mary.

Just to reply to you mp22...

It cost $5 for the family to swim at the pool.
It cost $20 to go to the movies for 4 people (we've done that twice now in the past many months).

Far as I know, those are the only things that we have done that "cost" money. I believe, if you recall, how I took the kids for the weekends for years, we did similar types of things, although I didn't want to go to movies and such without you.

So, now we do our shopping and stuff together when we do it.

I disagree about me "spoiling" the kids. I would like to hear more explicit description of what you mean by this.

Sleepovers cost very little to nothing.
Going to the gym to play ball is free.
Playing checkers is free.
Learning and listening to music is free.

My suggestion to you wasn't to keep the kids inside all day. My suggestion is just that you think about things you can do together, all 4 of you, and try to do those things more. The kids like to play games...from what they say, there's not a lot of that time together. I'm just suggesting that you make that family together time.

I'm not saying you lock them in a room, or push them outside, or that you are a bad mom.

You wondered what you could do to "reach" MAK and try to adjust her behavior. I'm just suggesting that spending more time together, as a group of four, would help. I do believe that is why we have the relationshio we have. I don't think it is becuase we went to the movies twice, or to the pool once...

Instead of getting mad, why don't you keep a record of how you guys spend your time together for the next couple of weeks and then review it? I have done that...and I have seen where I can improve things, and have done so.

Hi mp22,

I'm taking your post to mean that you have accepted my apology for threadjacking. Again, thank you for being gracious. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I agree with you that it is unrealistic to spend all your time with your children, and I don't believe it is even healthy to do so as they get older--but others believe differently so they do things differently. I think it falls in the category of different things working in different situations--and your situation is much different than your ex's situation so it makes sense to me that many things that work in your ex's situation won't work for you and vice versa.

It sounds like you are doing a great job of accomodating your kid's needs, not necessarily all their WANTS--but that's not a bad thing is it? I think it's good that your kids can get different needs met by you and your ex--I think it's better than both of you meeting the same needs in the same ways and neither of you being able to meet other needs they have.

Please don't worry about being accused of being a bad parent here. Most people here realize that there are more than one or even two sides to anything. I know from my sitch that if both my FWH and myself were here posting about our sitch, you probably wouldn't know we were describing the SAME sitch <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> And, if my kids were also posting you probably wouldn't think we knew each other let alone were part of the same family <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Have you been able to find someone who can help you find ways to deal with the inappropriate touching? When I was a kid, I had a sibling who developed this problem. Unfortunately, the solution my parents came up with was to always have one of them standing guard over the inappropriate toucher until the behavior stopped--not a good solution for any of us siblings because there is no way to always stand guard and even a trip to the bathroom for a minute or two exposed us to the pokes in the chest, grabbing, etc for that minute or two. In later years, the inappropriate toucher sexually abused at least two of the youngest siblings, probably three. I firmly believe that if the behavior was dealt with in effective ways at the onset, then we would all have been spared from being subjected to it--and maybe the fact that the inappropriate toucher had been inappropriately touched would have come out soon enough to do some good.

I strongly enourage you to get advice from a professional for dealing with the inappropriate touching--maybe your ex would be willing to do this with you?

Take care mp22

BP,
You and I have a lot in common, my x is a nurse too, and I disagree with how she spends time with the kids. It is just pretty much, take them to a friends, get a video, or take them to the mall. She used to do that pretty much every weekend, but now it is hardly at all.

Her latest thing is now to take the kids when she works(12 hr shifts) and pretty much lets them roam between friends. My kids are older than yours, but I am not happy about that. There is too much trouble to get into!

She also puts up pretty much the same arguements as MP.

My goal is not to make my kids suffer because of the divorce, any more than they have too. I can tell my son missed his mother when she first moved out because you could tell he was desparate for femal attention because he would bug his sister unmercifulessly.

I agree with you about the housekeeping and the chores. I have one friend who makes their kids clean the whole house. The mother doesn't do much of anything that I can tell of( she has mega allergies) so the kids have to do most of the housework or the husband does it when he gets home from work.

My opinion is a little dust never hurt anyone.

The other principal I work on is I will be there for my kids now and hopefully they will be there when I need them when I get old and gray.

In my opinion, not spending time with them now, means no chance of them spending time with me in the future.

I think this is how my x was raised. Her parents were big drinkers and wehn out about every night and grandma or someone else was always watching them.

Her whole family has some interesting dynamics, but I guess mine does too.

My family and upbringing sounds alot like yours. I am 100% opposite of my father.

Don't have any advice except hang in and do your best for your kids. Not saying you are not MP.

Thanks RWD.

And I hope it never sounded like I said mp22 wasn't a good mother...I just wish she'd do things differently. LMAO Of course I do, that's why we got (are getting) divorced, and I understnad that her methods "arent' wrong", just different.

Accepting, letting go, it is all very difficult...but I think I am doing very well.

I make the CHOICE that I WILL GET NOTHING DONE when I am with my kids. I do not work on the house, I do not try and work on work, I expect to DO NOTHING BUT BE WITH THE KIDS. Period

IMHO, you aren't doing your girls any favor by not letting them see normal everyday activities and routines that need your attention.

You aren't their personal entertainer...nor should you want to be. You should balance it out with them being left to entertain themselves at times..and to play independent of you. It teaches them nothing except that it is YOUR job and responsibilty to make sure that they are having a good time.

They really need a healthy balance in order for them to grow into adult women that do not expect the men in their lives to be just like you...entertaining and keeping them occupied.

Complete devoted attention to WHAT THEY WANT TO DO! Not what I want them to do...but what they want.

I would hate for them to think that is the way it is supposed to be...especially when they grow up. How needy are they going to be with their husbands? How much are they going to expect from their husbands? You might be setting the stage for some potential "divas".

IMHO there needs to simply be a balance and I really feel like they aren't getting that from you. Let them see the "real world"...the real world when Dad has to fix the truck sometimes...the world where Dad repairs something around the house...the real world where Dad works in the yard. Don't let the world stop simply because THEY are there with you. It's just not healthy now..or for later.

JMHO
committed

Committed...I agree. And my previous words, as you quoted, are exaggerated.

We do clean the house...together. We do get the groceries, do the laundry, fold the clothes, etc. Together.

I guess my point is, and what I should more properly state, is that I don't try to get things done ON MY OWN when the kids are with me.

But you are ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.

Thanks for pointing that out.