Hello All:

I just listened again to Harley`s Marriage Talk Radio Clips; Parts 1-5 (the marriage radio section). These clips were very encouraging to me as Harley emphasizes the unlikelihood that an affair will last. I sure hope he is right!! He states that most affairs die a natural death within 6 months and that I just might have the opportunity to get my x-wife back when it ends. Well, her affair is now coming up on "two years" and she still insists that she loves him. Damn! Now, I know that every case is different and that there are never any guarantees, but I wonder if her affair is of a different more resilient variety because of the way it started. Her affair basically started as soon as I confessed to her that I had been unfaithful. In a sense, I pushed her right into his arms. Does my betrayal therefore make it more likely that her affair will be longer lasting? Even though, we have been divorced for one year, I continue to stand for our marriage. It is a long long road, but she is worth it. One interesting thing is that she refuses to acknowledge that she is in an affair. My betrayal, she contends, freed her from any commitment to the marriage, and therefore what happened between she and he was not an affair, but rather just a relationship between two free, single people. Her refusal to acknowledge any wrongdoing, I believe, it very significant. Although I have begged her forgiveness, she does not feel there is anything she needs to be forgiven for.

There are also other complications which may be making her "affair" more resilient. The relationship between my x-wife and the x-common-law wife of her OM is extremely strained. Sometimes it seems that my x-wife is hanging onto the OM based upon some kind of intense female rivalry. My x-wife, it seems, cannot bear to lose him, for fear of being told by this woman, "Ha ha, I told you so". The x-common law wife is extremely jealous and has been playing mind games with my x-wife from the very beginning. They work together at the same company and she continually makes life very difficult for my x-wife on the job by trying to come in-between.

My x-wife also continues to hang onto the OM even though he has indicated little desire to make any long-lasting committment. They see each other perhaps 2-3 times per month. Over the past two years, he has, off and on, tried to end the relationship. Whenever this has happened though, my x-wife has gone into absolute hysterics; uncontrolled crying, references to ending her life, etc. It is so sad for to see her this way. She is good at hiding all this from our children, but deep down, they sense she is unstable and unhappy. After a couple weeks of these down cycles though, she and he reconcile, and she is back to her "normal smiling self"; What a roller coaster!! The OM has not yet met our children; nor basically anyone in our circle of family and friends. His stranglehold on her seems cruel and manipulative, but then again, as I am the original betrayer, I am not anyone to use the word "cruel". I just can`t understand how she has been willing to give up so much for him.

I have accepted that this is all out of my hands. So I really do just let her be. When we meet, I am kind, supportive, and loving. When she wants to talk, I talk, but it so extremely rare that she initiates any contact. Indeed, her overall inaction is so terribly frustrating. I have thought about confronting the OM, but my gut tells me that it would just backfire. So Love, I guess, is, in the end, just about letting your partner be.

Other than working on myself, which I really try to do, is there anything I can do to speed this whole process up? I mean, neither of us are getting any younger!!


Standing in Finland

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by StandingInFinland:
<strong> Hello All:

I just listened again to Harley`s Marriage Talk Radio Clips; Parts 1-5 (the marriage radio section). These clips were very encouraging to me as Harley emphasizes the unlikelihood that an affair will last. I sure hope he is right!! He states that most affairs die a natural death within 6 months and that I just might have the opportunity to get my x-wife back when it ends. Well, her affair is now coming up on "two years" and she still insists that she loves him. Damn! Now, I know that every case is different and that there are never any guarantees, but I wonder if her affair is of a different more resilient variety because of the way it started. Her affair basically started as soon as I confessed to her that I had been unfaithful. In a sense, I pushed her right into his arms. Does my betrayal therefore make it more likely that her affair will be longer lasting? Even though, we have been divorced for one year, I continue to stand for our marriage. It is a long long road, but she is worth it. One interesting thing is that she refuses to acknowledge that she is in an affair. My betrayal, she contends, freed her from any commitment to the marriage, and therefore what happened between she and he was not an affair, but rather just a relationship between two free, single people. Her refusal to acknowledge any wrongdoing, I believe, it very significant. Although I have begged her forgiveness, she does not feel there is anything she needs to be forgiven for.

There are also other complications which may be making her "affair" more resilient. The relationship between my x-wife and the x-common-law wife of her OM is extremely strained. Sometimes it seems that my x-wife is hanging onto the OM based upon some kind of intense female rivalry. My x-wife, it seems, cannot bear to lose him, for fear of being told by this woman, "Ha ha, I told you so". The x-common law wife is extremely jealous and has been playing mind games with my x-wife from the very beginning. They work together at the same company and she continually makes life very difficult for my x-wife on the job by trying to come in-between.

My x-wife also continues to hang onto the OM even though he has indicated little desire to make any long-lasting committment. They see each other perhaps 2-3 times per month. Over the past two years, he has, off and on, tried to end the relationship. Whenever this has happened though, my x-wife has gone into absolute hysterics; uncontrolled crying, references to ending her life, etc. It is so sad for to see her this way. She is good at hiding all this from our children, but deep down, they sense she is unstable and unhappy. After a couple weeks of these down cycles though, she and he reconcile, and she is back to her "normal smiling self"; What a roller coaster!! The OM has not yet met our children; nor basically anyone in our circle of family and friends. His stranglehold on her seems cruel and manipulative, but then again, as I am the original betrayer, I am not anyone to use the word "cruel". I just can`t understand how she has been willing to give up so much for him.

I have accepted that this is all out of my hands. So I really do just let her be. When we meet, I am kind, supportive, and loving. When she wants to talk, I talk, but it so extremely rare that she initiates any contact. Indeed, her overall inaction is so terribly frustrating. I have thought about confronting the OM, but my gut tells me that it would just backfire. So Love, I guess, is, in the end, just about letting your partner be.

Other than working on myself, which I really try to do, is there anything I can do to speed this whole process up? I mean, neither of us are getting any younger!!


Standing in Finland </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

The fact that you had an affair certainly didn't free her from her marriage. Are you and the EX Christians? She's right from the perspective that she is single and I don't believe you can still classify her involvement with him as an affair. You say she's worth it, and you want her back - Why? Are you willing to put your past behind you? Maybe you can start to try to build a friendship, without any of the focus on what has transpired. You are no longer a married couple, that's not to say that there can't be a reconciliation because all things are possible. But one step at a time. You have a God that is always willing to forgive our transgressions and if you have truly repented and asked for forgiveness, it seems you haven't forgiven yourself. What do you mean by contact? At this point there shouldn't be any need to confront the OM because seeing him is her choice.

Hello Raymond:

I accept of course that her relationship with this OM can no longer be considered an affair and that she is now single. We are divorced. My point though is that she did not consider the relationship to be an affair while we were still married. It went on for about 10 months before our divorce decree. She declared herself single as soon as I confessed. Was this right? No matter though. I understand. I hurt her and this is how she responded.

I am a Christian and I believe that standing for my marriage is the right thing to do. Yes, Of course, I could move on, but there is something so enticing about reviving something that was once so very beautiful. We had a wonderful marriage, but sadly we allowed it to slip away because we both worked too hard outside the home. That was one cause, anyway. We also had some unresolved abuse issues from early in the marriage. I believe we can iron things out, but it will take time and God`s guidance. My role right now is to get a good job, take care of my children, build my own church life, take care of my physical self, and be there to listen should my x-wife ever need me. We are still good friends and someday, I hope we will be something more again.

Of course, I will not contact the OM. I was just thinking out loud. I have no right to interfere in their relationship, but sometimes, the waiting is so unbearable.

Standing Patiently

One thing to consider - Even though you made a selfish choice and had an A, her going outside the marriage was her own choice and she is accountable for that whether she cares to admit it or not. I understand how you feel regardless of what may have transpired. The bible states that we "cleave" with our mate and even though there is a physical separation we still feel this union. Throughout the bible God clearly illustrates that He prefers reconciliation and that is STILL certainly possible even at this point. BUT YOU NEED HELP. Don't try to attempt this by yourselves. You're definitely on the right track as far as getting yourself together. Seek a Christian counselor or time with your pastor. Express your desire and see how you can build the framework toward taking your individual lives and go toward a reconciliation, provided that you have yourself together. You can even ask her if she'd like to attend, but don't be pushy! Leave the door open. If you're willing to lead by example she may follow suit if she feels your sincere. But she also needs to love herself and get herself together as well. Is she a believer?

Hi Raymond:

It is hard for me to say whether or not she is a believer. It is her own personal issue. She is not acting like one though. Rahter she has been acting very self-centered. She was raised in the very Scandinavian tradition in that she has reverance for the institution of church, but she just does not actively attend or worship. Most Finns go to church just a few times in their lives; only for society`s ceremonies.

No I am not walking alone. I have many friends and an increasing number of them are Christian. I still seek reconciliation, but I also realize that there has to be an end game. My struggle is her painfully slow pace of making decisions.


Standing Patiently

Hi Standing!

Thought I'd give you a reply also. While I understand from reading Harley and others of his kinds that most relationships born of affairs don't last, I think it's irrelevant to what a BS needs to do. By hanging on and waiting for the relationship to die, you are wasting precious years of your life! Take the opinion that her relationship with him will never end and go from there. Even if it does end, there is no guarantee she'll come back to you. They usually don't. My Ex and his W (former OW) have been together for many, many years. I waited too long for them to break up. They married shortly after our divorce and are still together.

Don't waste your life waiting and holding your breath for her relationship with him to end. It might never end.

TFS

SP -
The most important question is: Is she open to reconciliation?

Standing,
My x married her om 10 months after we divorced(11 months after d-day_ and divorced him 16 months later so they were together a little over 3 yrs.

I guess this is one area where I disagree with Harley, 6 months don't seem the norm. It seems more like 2-3 yrs.

Have you tried '180 degree' method?

If it doesn't work, than change that "method" in - "life style". <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Ok, 180 is a great suggetion, but I think I have already been doing much of this. Below is a self evaluation check-up.


1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or
implore.

Check

2. No frequent phone calls.

Check

3. Do not point out good points in marriage.

Check

4. Do not follow her around the house.

Well, actually she moved out, but I don`t follows her around at her place anyway.

5. Do not encourage talk about the future.

Check

6. Do not ask for help from family members.

Well, could be better in this respect.

7. Do not ask for reassurances.

Check

8. Do not buy gifts.

Very occasionally

9. Do not schedule dates together.

Check

10. Do not spy on spouse.

Check

11. Do not say "I Love You".

This is a tough one, because it is the truth, but I have gotten better at this.

12. Act as if you are moving on with your life.

Not so good at this either, but working on it

13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive.

Challenging also, but working on it.

14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.

I actually have no choice. Daily life is full of so much. I don`t go out much though because my children are with me 95 % of the time.

15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words.

Again, we live separately, but I must say when we talk, I still initiate all the dialogue which quickly becomes a monologue.

16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING.

Check

17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.

Luke warm check

18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what she will be missing

Super check

19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show her someone she would want to be around.

Trying hard to do this.

20. All questions about marriage should be put on
hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).

Challenging, but basically check


21. Never lose your cool.

Check

22. Don't be overly enthusiiastic.

Check

23. Do not argue about how she feels (it only makes their feelings stronger).

Check, I am good at this.

24. Be patient

Well, I am Standing Patiently, aren`t I? I know I can do better.

25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.

Check

26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out.

Fall down failure in this. I continue to inititate most everything because she gives nothing.

27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).

Could do much better. Currently facing umemployment and it hurts really bad.

28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly.

Check

29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest
CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.

Check

30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.

Check

31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.

Not so good at this because I end up doing all the talking.

32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because she is hurting and scared.

Check, clearly understood

33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.

Amen

34. Do not backslide from your hardened changes.

I will keep trying

*****

I know I can do better. Perhaps I am at 130 degrees, but I am working on it.

Has anyone had solid 180 degree experience?


Standing Patiently