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#776723 08/31/04 07:20 PM
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I am concerned about doing things right in the eyes of the Lord. My question is should a christian talk to or date someone while they are separated? Some say you should not date or talk to potential partners until the divorce is final.
I am sure that my husband and I will not get back together - the adultery, pornography, abuse, etc. has taken a toll on me and the relationship. My longsuffering is long gone,
Any takers for this one. If so, please back it up with scripture.

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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by BREAKTHRU:
<strong> I am concerned about doing things right in the eyes of the Lord. My question is should a christian talk to or date someone while they are separated? Some say you should not date or talk to potential partners until the divorce is final.
Any takers for this one. If so, please back it up with scripture. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Back it up with scripture? Huh?

Until you are divorced, you are still married. Period.

What's to back up?

Being married (legally or morally) has very little to do with how long you've suffered or how much patience you have or don't have. You are either married or you're not.

I don't understand what's hard about that to figure out.

Let alone.....even if you WERE divorced i.e. single...common sense and just about every expert on the subject says to WAIT to date for at least a YEAR for your own mental, emotional, etc. health and recovery.

<small>[ August 31, 2004, 08:40 PM: Message edited by: Ms.O ]</small>

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Thanks for the reply. But I would love to have scripture. What you saying sounds wonderful, but it does nothing to assure me that I am going in the right direction.

Words fitly spoken are like apples of gold in settings of silver
Proverbs 25:11

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Just for an exercise, let's simplify your question:


"I am concerned about doing things right. Should a married person talk to or date someone while they are separated?"

Does that change the answer? I don't think so.


As Ms. O correctly pointed out, you are either married, or you aren't, and your level or duration of suffering really should have no impact upon your answer.


If you date before being divorced, you are breaking your marriage vows, period.

Remember, you didn't just make those vows to your STBX...you made them to whomever might have been at your wedding...you also made them to yourself.

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Thanks again. So are you saying if the marriage vows have been broken by one spouse and the marriage is in a state of separation, the other partner should "wait it out" until the marriage is legally over? And the legal document has the last say on whether you are married or not? Where is God in all of this? He sees a broken covenant before the paper ever appears. Right? So is it still a marriage in God's eyes or man's? The final legal divorce decree just confirms that a
spirtiual, physical, and mental divorce took place in the past. Hmmm!

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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by BREAKTHRU:
<strong> Thanks again. So are you saying if the marriage vows have been broken by one spouse and the marriage is in a state of separation, the other partner should "wait it out" until the marriage is legally over?</strong> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What I am saying is that the fact that your husband could not keep the marriage vows does not give you a free pass to break them as well.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>
And the legal document has the last say on whether you are married or not? Where is God in all of this? He sees a broken covenant before the paper ever appears. Right? So is it still a marriage in God's eyes or man's? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Did you make the vows only to your husband? Or did you make them to your husband, yourself, and God?

A vow is a promise, as I see it, and in the absence of any sort of direct communication from God, we kind of have to rely on a legal divorce decree before we can assume that the promise we made before God is void...don't you think?


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>
The final legal divorce decree just confirms that a
spirtiual, physical, and mental divorce took place in the past. Hmmm! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hmmm! Indeed!

What I think you're really trying to do is find some sort of justification for dating before you are legally divorced.

I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but that's the impression that I get...

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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by BREAKTHRU:
<strong> I am concerned about doing things right in the eyes of the Lord. My question is should a christian talk to or date someone while they are separated?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">BT, I hope you read through this thread, since of the many discussions on this topic here, I think it may be one of the better ones (a bit argumentative, but in consequence it's quite direct).

Talking with someone is OK, in my opinion, but it's best to be very cautious. Divorce support groups, for example, can be both helpful and dangerous.

I have no proof-texts for you, I'm afraid. If you feel you need legalistic arguments, then I reckon you may be forgetting that the rules are there not so much to define just what belongs on which side of some moralistic fence, but to help us live in the way which is best for ourselves and each other. In other words, when we ask "is it wrong for me to do this?" we are sort of missing the point. The better question is "Is this the best thing I could do in God's eyes?"

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Exodus - Chapter 20:14

14. You shall not commit adultery.


Hebrews – Chapter 13:4

4. Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral

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BREAKTHRU,

IMO, you shouldn't date right now, I don't think it would be very healthy for you. You're very vulnerable right now and you need to take the time to make sure what your true feelings are.

But, if you chose to surround yourself with a few good friends who will support you at this very difficult time, I think that would be ok.

Good luck.

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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by BREAKTHRU:
<strong> Any takers for this one. If so, please back it up with scripture. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What the h e double hockey sticks... Prove it, huh...

It's wrong to steal, do I need to prove it?

It's wrong to kill, do I need to prove it?

It's wrong to lie, do I need to prove it?

It's wrong to COVET, do I need to prove it?

It's wrong to commit adultry, do I need to prove it?

We are called by God to follow the laws of the earth as well as the laws of God. PERIOD..... What is there to prove? Dating someone while legally married, IMHO as a Methodist Lay Minister, breaks at least 2 of the 10 commandments not to mention it's just plain not a very bright thing to do. Isn't that like taking someone who just got out of treatment for alcoholism to a bar? What more proof do you need?

Separation is a state of marriage and while you are married in the eyes of the state you are married in the eyes of the Lord.

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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by cjack:
<strong> What I think you're really trying to do is find some sort of justification for dating before you are legally divorced.

I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but that's the impression that I get... </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is what I think too. If you REALLY wanted to do what was right in God's eyes, you would AVOID ALL appearances of evil (i.e. adultry) and WAIT until your LEGAL divorce is completely final.

I agree that a marriage covenant can be broken without the legal covenant broken. However, when you got married, you didn't just make a covenant with your husband (and God, by the way); you ALSO made a legal one (which God honors). Even in Moses and Jesus day, the divorce was not "real" until a "divorce decree" was granted.

To do the right thing, you should wait until ALL the covenants are completely broken, final, over, etc.

So the real question is: Do you want to do what's right in God's eyes or in yours, because you are tired of waiting?

No more scripture is needed....VolkWes gave the two appropriate scriptures that apply to this situation. You just need to decide if you want to follow them.

I'm not trying to be harsh here either, but it's actually pretty black and white. Those who want to justify some middle ground are either impatient and selfish and/or have already started a new relationship with another person, imho. Do you fit either of these categories? Just wondering...

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Matthew 5:16 In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven.

1CO 6:18 Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body. 19 Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20 you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.

1CO 7:3 The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4 The wife's body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband's body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife.

Luke 18:20 You know the commandments: `Do not commit adultery, do not murder, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother.'

9 The commandments, "Do not commit adultery," "Do not murder," "Do not steal," "Do not covet," and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: "Love your neighbor as yourself." 10 Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

RO 13:11 And do this, understanding the present time. The hour has come for you to wake up from your slumber, because our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed. 12 The night is nearly over; the day is almost here. So let us put aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light. 13 Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousy. 14 Rather, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not think about how to gratify the desires of the sinful

2PE 2:13 They will be paid back with harm for the harm they have done. Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you. 14 With eyes full of adultery, they never stop sinning; they seduce the unstable; they are experts in greed--an accursed brood! 15 They have left the straight way and wandered off to follow the way of Balaam son of Beor, who loved the wages of wickedness. 16 But he was rebuked for his wrongdoing by a donkey--a beast without speech--who spoke with a man's voice and restrained the prophet's madness.

Yeah, you want scripture but what about your heart. Can you really, with a clear conscience, date others while still married.

Maybe we could even use the ever popular:

MT 7:9 "Which of you, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone? 10 Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? 11 If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him! 12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

Good things come together if you keep going and do the next right thing - the thing that looks toward God. Granted, you may not see the good approaching.

But wouldn't you feel better about yourself five years from now if you keep your eyes on God and make the choice which feel morally right? Do you really need a scripture?

Advice is what you ask for when you know the answer - you just don't like it.

Listen to your heart.

<small>[ September 02, 2004, 04:57 AM: Message edited by: cinderella ]</small>

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Take it from a M who's WF has filed for divorce and was/is having an affair. 2 Wrong's do not make a right. I feel very strongly that even though she is carrying on with OM that since we are still married Morally and Legally that dating is not an option.

Her filing for D is a way that she was trying to justify her affair. Wrong-- Even seperated she is still having an affair.

EVERYONE needs to figure this out on there own. Make sure though that you do not try and Justify things be changing your values to fit your situation which is what wayward sps's do.

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The right or wrong of dating during separation seems to be a very individual thing. My STBX claims once you are separated-legally or physically-you can do what you want, see who you want, and the other person(spouse) cannot say a thing. He started dating 2 mo after we legally separated and started seeing his current GF about 4 mo ago (we've been separated 7 mo).

Yet, he heard I had gone out w/friends a handful of times and he treats me like some tramp. I have not gone on a date in the 7 mo since he left. he claims it would bother him if I dated, but he has a steady GF. Go figure!

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Someday, your divorce will be over and done with. At that time, you'll want to start dating and open your eyes to the possibility of falling in love and into a normal and healthy relationship. It's very healing.

Till then, dating risks so many things with the divorce. What if you want to get back together after all? Your dating will complicate things. What if you fall in love before the divorce and do something really stupid that either compromises your morals or becomes public knowledge... you'll lose any high ground you have. What if... you need to consider these.

That being said, you're separated. Be social, have friends. Be sensitive to the concept of rebound and give your heart time to heal. It'll feel so long sometimes... do it in groups. Don't date in the sense of looking for romance... but do make friends and be active. It helps time pass. By doing things in a group of friends, you'll help time pass and avoid lonely times when it's easy to ruminate and wish things were different.

I've seen a number of divorces through mine and let me tell you... no matter how good or bad your divorce/separation might be going... when your stbx-spouse catches wind that you're dating... things get WORSE. I avoided dating just for that reason though towards the end I did try and make friends with the other gender and avoided romance. And, ironically, after your divorce is done, expect a call from your x when they hear you're dating again.

Things do get better.

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Im a Christian and will go against the grain on this one, I think its ok to date.

Of course you have to see the boat Im in. I took my wife to a weekend marriage conference where on that Sunday we rededicated our marriage and signed a Louisiana covenant marriage law. The kicker is she was smack in the middle of her affair(I found out this week it was physical) but because of signing the covenant marriage we have to be seperated for 2 years before we can divorce.

So do you honestly think I wont date in 2 years, while she is jumping around from guy to guy and we have only been seperated a month and a half

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Also once the spouse commits adultry thats it, biblically the marriage is done, you have the right to move on

And if anyone wants to throw in the arguement about the Pharisees,the adulterer, and Jesus, I dont have the scripture handy but at the end Jesus forgave the adulterer and said Go forth and sin no more. So after they are caught and they continue to commit adultry they are not doing God's will

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Breakthru,
whoever it is that you are considering dating will still be there after your D is final--if it is meant to be. Someone who won't consider your situation and wait it out with you is not going to be someone to trust with your feelings and your future. Why not take this time now to develop a friendship and really get to know one another?

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Lone Star Girl is very wise and helpful... listen to what she's saying, i am

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joey -

You are quite wrong in your feelings. When you married, as someone else hear said, you are on a boat, with your wife, and the Lord as captain. Marriage is a covenant between you and the Lord and your wife.

Your wife has broken that covenant. That means that you are free to divorce her. However you and the Lord still have a covenant. You are NOT free to date.

I have been going thru this for 19 months, and still not divorced. WH is living with OW. However I am keeping my vows, until I am divorced.

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