Hi Guys,<P>Seems like awhile since I last posted and it has been. Too much stuff going on for me to digest.<P>My Mom had a massive heart attack last Friday and my younger boy witnessed the whole thing. He called my X hysterical. X called me. I went over and found her in a very confused state, thought it was a stroke. Called the ambulance and waited. You can not imagine how long three minutes are until you are in this situation. Here I am, a Paramedic, with no equipment to help the woman who brought me into this world. And I thought the affair was life threatening. No comparison.<P>Well, she had a bypass operation X 3 this Tuesday and is pretty much back to normal. I thank My lucky stars.<P>Back to the deadline. I have now found a new respect for life seeing I almost lost my Mother {Pop died nine years ago from brain cancer, That really sucked}. If W is not interested in being a part of my life. I am not interested in being part of hers. It's tit for tat and I'm tired of getting the tat and not the... <P>We have an appointment with a so called Solution Oriented Brief Therapist this Thursday night to either fix or forget the marriage. I told her that Friday is THE DAY. If she can't decide between me and the OP. I can, and I'm outta here. <P>I fully understand that an ultimatum is not a real good idea, but, I'm tired of being jerked around and lied to. And if you think about it so is the OP. She can't decide. HEY GUESS WHAT, YOU CAN'T HAVE YOUR CAKE AND EAT IT TOO.<P>I don't know if this helps anyone out there, but I had to put it into words to vent.<P>Wishing us all the best.<P>Medic

Hi Medic!<P>I don't post a whole lot either, but I keep an eye on you when I am lurking around here on weeknites.<P>First of all, I am very sorry to hear about your mother and Thank God that she is doing a lot better. I will be praying for her continued recuperation. It seems like it always takes a tragedy for is to re-evaluate our lives and realize that we are worth something and we should be treated as such. <P>HOORAY for Medic!! It's not easy to take a stand for what you believe in. Especially when you may live with pain because of it for ever. But rest assured that you have taken a step toward healing and getting a new start in your life. Yes, there will be ups and downs, but if in your heart you have resolved to do this, then God bless and strenghten you to do what you gotta do to get through this.<BR>There is still plenty of time for you to find real true love.<P>Medic, sometimes, when I read these posts, I feel like we all deserve more and better thatnwhat we're getting from our mates. But I guess we are the ones who were really in love and took those marraige vows seriously and meant to live by them for the rest of our lives. I think that I could have lived alright for the rest of my life without having felt this pain. But then again, perhaps God is preparing me for some fantastik assignment and I will need this experience in order to help someone else. And if that is so, if I can help just ONE person, then this private hell, will have all been worth it.<P>Sorry to keep rambling on!<P>Best Wishes to you and your family.<P>------------------<BR>Luv, Liza<P>Never fear, because God walks right beside you, and if you get tired, he will lift you up and carry you.

MEDIC238, So sorry to hear about the bad times you are having, sometimes it feels like things could not get worse and then they do and then you find you still survive and it can make you stronger.<P>I just wanted to tell you that my H and I started counceling with an SBT 2 weeks ago and so far I have been very impressed. Try not to give the Friday as the deadline till you in as they like to see you as a couple and then each seperately. It's fast moving and very insightfull.<P>I guess what I am saying is don't give up hope yet. This might be what you have needed and hopefully this will help her see the light. Good luck!<P>------------------<BR>Lilly<P>[This message has been edited by Lilly (edited September 04, 1999).]<p>[This message has been edited by Lilly (edited September 04, 1999).]

MEDIC238 -<BR>I'm probably in the minority here, but I think that, in many cases, an ultimatium is definitely the way to go. The sensitive area is that of timing. W and I voluntarily separated May 15. I moved out(she was the betrayer) because after we discussed it, she admitted that it would be easier on her. She needed to "find herself" and "think about us". What she ended up doing was just relaxing and enjoying "single" life. It will be discovery+5 months on Friday(9/10) and she is no farther along in her "self-discovery" than on day one.<P>Finally, last week, I had had enough of the apartment life. We had just completed a two-week trial of me moving back in and a week off. I asked her about trying it again and she said she wasn't ready yet. Well, I stewed it over the next day and in the evening called her and said that I WAS moving back this weekend and she could move into the apartment and sign divorce papers to let her have the "playpen" she has been hinting about for months.<P>She asked me why I didn't want her in the house with me. I told her I did but she was the one that didn't want me back....Anyway I am now back in the house where I am happier regardless of what she eventually does. I really want things to work out, but I'm not waiting forever.<P>The bottom line here is that even though my ultimatum was much less serious than yours, I would still be in the apartment if I just kept asking about moving back.<P>The step you have just taken is one that I foresee doing soon. Every person is different with different tolerance levels for the type of bulls**t that some of the betrayers dish out. I admire the people here who have been waiting 1-2 years or more. I wish them the best of luck and dearly hope things work out for them, but I am not one of them. Life is too short and somewhere out there is someone who can make you(general not you specifically) happy. I will find that person and if W doesn't soon decide to be that person, I'm looking elsewhere.<P>Have strength and do what you believe is right. Only you can make the decisions that are best for you. The rest of us can only be there for you or maybe offer our thoughts, but it's up to you.<P>Good luck and my best wishes and hopes go to you.

hey, I hope your mother doing better. Talk about stress. It's a good thing you were there for her, even without the equipement, I'm sure you helped your mother. Sorry about your father. Cancer, it's awful. My mother lost to breast cancer when she was 46.<BR>I also work in health care.<P>As far as your wife, your right, you can't have your cake and eat it too. <P>She living in the dream world. Some day she'll wake up & smell the coffee. I know I did. Now I just eat humble pie.<P>How about printing out the emotional needs check list? Might help.<P>Carol

Hey my friend. I've been wondering where you went.<BR>I am sorry to hear about your mother. Thank God she is doing better.<BR>I just want to add my .02 here. I was so depressed yesterday that I decided I wouldn't post any more. I have no marriage-nothing to build. (Read my post over the last few days-see what I am MARRIED TO) Anyway, as you can see I am back. I need this forum.<BR>Now, my .02. I gave my h an ultimatum so to speak, and he moved out. He is insistant that I shoved him out of the house with no apparent reason, but we all know that is not the case. He has been gone now for 8 wks and is showing NO signs of returning. Frankly, at this point, I don't care. He has treated me like a piece of s***.<BR>If you feel comfortable that you have reached you limit, then you have reached you limit. There is only so much a person can take, especially from their loved ones. I think you need to take care of yourself and if she can't make up her mind, make it up for her. <BR>No one needs this kind of mental abuse as a regular diet. <BR>I don't know if this makes any sense, but you need to do what feels right for you. Even if she does stay, you will have a long road ahead. If she leaves, you will be able to breath a sign of relief in a way and move on with your life. I know you love her, but we must let them go and see if they come back to us.<BR>God bless you, Medic. You sense of humor in the face of all this adversity is amazing. You will be FINE, my friend.<P>Cheryl

Medic:<P>Glad to hear your mom is on her way recovery! Just having you there with her through the scariest part must have been reason enough to give her courage & strength!<P>Now, about the deadline. Well, you all know I asked my H to leave. I for one, couldn't take it anymore. Especially since in his heart he still pines away for Miss Mia (I still doubt there is closure to that affair) One thing he said to me during all this mess is something I won't EVER forget - along the lines of having your cake and eating it too..<BR>H told me that his kids were his cake, but Mia was the one he wanted to eat! ARRGGHHHH!!<P>So giving an utimatum for someone who doesn't believe I'm worthy enough to be "flour" (a basic ingredient) was the only logical choice for me.<P>Hang tough Medic. I'm learning to be stronger every day!

Thanks to all whom replied,<P>Liza, Lilly, Heartpain, Carol G, Cee Cee and Tired Lady.<P>I just got back from dropping Tim , my older boy, off at his college dorm. Don't worry I slowed down enough before I pushed him out the car door. He only rolled a couple of times. Now I feel old. It took me a few tries to free his grip from the gearshift.<P>Mom is coming home tomorrow. Guess which ambulance service is bringing her home...TIMES UP. Thanks for all your good wishes and prayers.<P>Lilly, just some questions regarding the SOBT. How do they start the session? [real question] We went to a "traditional" counselor where they go back to your childhood. Not interested in that. Do they use large amounts of electricity for the betrayer? Does the betrayed get to work the switch?<P>We have been apart for going on 6 months. The BIG problem is the OM is less than a mile away from W parents house. Val has turned into a compulsive liar. <P>I stopped by the house on Friday, when I knew she was at work, and spoke quite frankly with her mother. She had no idea what was going on. W is painting a completely different picture filling there heads with false stories. She says I won't sign the divorce papers and am holding her up. WHAT? Every time I mention to W about calling it quits, I get the "I don't want a divorce. Your'e my H." NO [censored]. And Brian is your boyfriend. SORRY, but, that is one too many guys involved for my liking.<P>Heartpain, I think my W is close relatives with your W. It seems she is enjoying the "good" life. She doesn't believe that I can walk away. That I will forget how to breathe or some other silly function. Boy, honey, you are in a dream world. <P>The deadline is my final act of closure. I understand that many out there have been waiting for a time period much longer than mine, but I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired. If she can't give up the OM, come back to "our home" to REALLY work on the marriage and cut the damn Pinochio act. I will find someone else to share my life with. Yes, it will be sad to divorce, but it's sadder {is that a word} to continue to live this way.<P>Wishing us all the Best, and Friday come hell or high water, I believe it will be for me.<P>Medic

You know, Medic, her attitude in this is what hurts me the most. From other people I know and some of the postings on this forum, I realize that many betrayed have their biggest problems getting over the affair itself. For me, I understand WHY things got to the point where it happened, thought I'm not at all responsible for the infidelity. I was perfectly willing to get past the act(s) if she would at least try to work out some of the problems between us. She seems to think that the affair is paramount for me because I do ask about it occasionally. The only reason I do is because she hasn't diminished contact with OM, not even a little.<P>I can't deal with someone who wants to complain about each and every thing and then refuses to do anything proactive to resolve any issue.<P>Maybe both Ws are related somehow, if not thru blood then thru attitude.<P>Anyway, best wishes to you and your Mom. I hope her recovery is speedy. It isn't that I wasn't thinking that on my first reply, but seeing the similarities between our situations just set me off. I apologize for that because you now have an order of magnitude more to deal with than I have.<P>Be sure and let us know what happens on Friday. I'm with you in spirit, man....

Gee Medic:<P>When you're free, I'd be glad to be in your company!<P>I know first hand about making that "ultimate" decision. It hurt like heck - but I was also sick and tired of being the fool. I just said NO MORE - and meant it!<P>Take care and hold on to your convictions...

hi medic,<BR>I am so sorry to read about your mom, but glad they were able to do the bypass in time. Who is with her at home now? I hope you have some help in the caretaking area. But, ya know, caring and giving from your heart when you are in your own crisis, often brings a calmness, as more real sense of the important things in life. Will send good karma your way.<BR>Have thought of your situation the past week while away from mb. I don't think that you are all wrong for issuing an ultimatum. At some point, usually later rather than sooner, we have to take care of our own hearts and heads! It is not always in our best interest to continue dragging the weight around. Yes, patience is something we all need, but there is a limit and it is so different for everyone! <BR>I hope your son was able to talk about witnessing the mi before leaving for college. He must have felt so powerless, so vulnerable, like you! Amazing how these things can bring life into focus for us.<BR>(((hugs))) cl

Am I crazy or does it seem like when the husband is the betrayer they come and leave, but when its a woman they just seem to go !<BR>I told my w she couldn't live here and date and she about ran me over in leaving.<BR>2 weeks ago she hinted at us going to joint counseling again but she still lives with om and they are planning on going on a cruise in 2 weeks. Boy that really makes me want to go to couseling with her!<BR>

Am I crazy or does it seem like when the husband is the betrayer they come and leave, but when its a woman they just seem to go !<BR>I told my w she couldn't live here and date and she about ran me over in leaving.<BR>2 weeks ago she hinted at us going to joint counseling again but she still lives with om and they are planning on going on a cruise in 2 weeks. Boy that really makes me want to go to couseling with her!<BR>

RWD,<BR>No, it isn't just women. My H left 6 months ago and hasn't shown any signs of wanting to come back.

MEDIC238, they start the counceling, at least mine did, by talking to each one of you, one at a time,but together. Your childhood and past is gone over very quickly. Then you talk about your marriage and maybe what led to this and what is the problem right now. It is really kind of nostagic. Do you know much about your councelor. Do you know if they are pro-marriage?<P>Then you both come in seperatly and they try and get the truth from both of you about what you really want and are hoping for and they guide you towards that.<P>My coucelor tries to make my H see reality. Taught both of us about triangles and what is really going on in this whole situation and how we both have contributed to this situation. I think just her agreeing to go in with you is a good sign and I hope this helps you out.<P>It's very different from tradional therapy in the sense that they have dealt and helped people survive these kinds of situations before, there not there to take sides or to show you how to move on (unless you want to).<P>So far I am impressed. My H ageed to come in and I think he is learning something new about all this. I still don't know what the end of our road is going to be, but I'm glad I found this. <P>How did you come to find an SBT? Are you reading DB? Good luck to you!<P>------------------<BR>Lilly<P>