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#786392 05/09/00 02:05 AM
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Okay, is any one else troubled by the verbal battles ongoing at the General Board re: OC?<BR>It's honestly been depressing to me...

#786393 05/09/00 06:21 AM
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Yes, they bother me, too. There's really no need for it.<P>Sue<BR>

#786394 05/09/00 06:49 AM
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What is bothering you? I think people have their own points of view and feel strongly about them. There is nothing wrong with that (as long as it doesn't attack someone else's self worth). This is a highly emotional issue. Surely you don't expect it to be without strong words?<P>I think we are all here to find some help and be of help. We are all defending our positions. Even "Girlfriend" has been of some help to me because I think she really *IS* someone's h's girlfriend and speaks for the other side. (I think she is delusional, but it's still another point of view).<P>Anyway, I think all too often people get caught up in the "But, it's an innocent child!" bit and want to do what's best for the OC at the expense of the first family. I don't think the OC should have any more consideration than the WIFE and the H's legitimate children. Does that mean the OC should go without food and such. Of course not, but let's give some compassion to the legal family. <P>While you're giving all this compassion to a [censored], there may be other children who's worlds are crumbling. What about some compassion for them?<P>We all play a part in our own dramas, but it takes only one person to decide to cheat and lie. The spouse of the cheater is only responsible for how she contributed to the deterioration of the relationship. He/she is NOT responsible for the affair or any resulting children and in my opinion, she does NOT have to accept it, love it, or welcome it into her life. In an ideal world, we could all do that, but we don't live in an ideal world. <P>I support all wives who decide to do whatever works for them. Their lives have been stomped on enough. It's time they got some consideration for their happiness. Everyone seems to be saying the wife MUST accept it because the OC is part of the H. Well, I think it's the couple's decision. The H and W must be willing to do what is best for the couple if they are to survive as a couple. There is no absolute right or wrong as to what that is.

#786395 05/09/00 08:10 AM
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Popeye,<P>I'm not sure that anyone has said that there's an "absolute" way to handle this. In general, Dr. Harley would counsel the couple to make decisions based on "The Policy of Joint Agreement", and that you follow a path that you and your husband enthusiastically agree to.<P>My personal belief is that it's best to keep the wayward spouse and OP separated forever. If the decision is to have contact with the OC, then this should be arranged through the faithful spouse.<P>I've been in a slightly different situation, in that I've been raising a son who was the result of my wife's affair. We've been very fortunate in that even though the OM knew of the pregnancy (and threatened legal action), he's really had no contact since the first trimester of the pregnancy (and our son is now 16 months old). We'd prefer to keep the situation status quo, but we have a plan in place should he make contact with us.<P>I completely agree with you that the marriage MUST be the primary consideration in sorting out what actions to take. Over the OC. Even over the couple's 'natural' children. A strong marriage is the foundation for a strong, loving family.

#786396 05/09/00 09:16 AM
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Hello! I made it here also. <P>Jenny, I agree that some of the battles lately have been depressing. For me, this is because I am still struggling with all my emotions and some of the discussions cause my pain to resurface. I agree, Popeye, that everyone is entitled to their views. But to me it seems that some people think it is so cut and dry. I don't think that anyone can know what they would do in the same situation unless they have lived through it. I agree that the marriage needs to be the top priority and that the couple needs to decide together how to handle their own situation.<P>Audrey

#786397 05/09/00 11:13 AM
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<BR>K,<P>I lost track of which thread it was, but over in the general board you mentioned that you were admiring Noah's eyes and remarked how beautiful they were; your wife replied it was due to a little "stray genetic material." I'm sad to hear that her guilt is still causing intimacy problems, but I was touched by the gentleness of her comment.<P>As far as the verbal battles go, I think it has to do with a perception by some that betrayers should pay a huge price, and that impoverishing child support awards are within bounds. Others (myself included) feel that cases like babstr's are morally unjust. Related to this is the issue of culpability for conception. As I pointed out in the other thread, its true that our courts have adopted an absolute liability for sperm, but is that thr right thing to do? In some cases, I don't think it is.<P>Bystander

#786398 05/09/00 02:23 PM
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I made it. I was wondering how long it would take to set this up. The only problem that I have with the strong opinions, does seem to be cut in dry. The people who are here are dealing with betrayals of all kinds. But when it comes to this area which many feel is the worst nightmare of an affair. There doesn't seem to be much room for discussion. The ones that are so cut in dry, are also not dealing with this situation. I hope because of this forum, we can have more discussion. How we feel, how to deal with it. Instead of alot of people saying one thing. It seems that I and others should either leave our spouses. Or if we stay openly except the child and the ow. But if this was a normal affair, most agree the of course there should be no contact with the ow/om. I have compared this situation as being totally different from anything that someone experiences. From an affair to a death. In most tragic events in ones life there is a beginning and a end. If you lose your spouse, you try to rebuild and heal from the death. Or if you lose your home to a fire, or tornado, it is hard, but you rebuild, and heal. This feels like it will never heal. I know there is a child there. But my hardest problem, is this has taken front stage. I haven't had the time to deal with being betrayed. And I will never be able to say, ten years ago my husband betrayed me, but that is in the past. Because there is a child, there will always be a reminder, that my husband cheated on me, and that cheating produced a child. Now I hope no one jumps my case. I know that there is a child. But I would hope here in this forum, we can openly discuss how we are hurting. To help each other work through everything. To speak freely how it hurts. I am open to all conversation. I hope we can all talk, I am looking forward to this!!!<P>Stacy [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

#786399 05/09/00 06:12 PM
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Ladies and Gentlemen:<P>Isn't this great? I am hoping we'll all be able to do a lot of healing and offer each other and the newcomers support, comfort and our experiences. Maybe we'll even find some answers. We really, really needed this forum topic because of our special situation. <P>Jenny, you should be first, you have been on the forum the longest! You, my friend, were there for me a year ago when I came here all beaten up and bloody, completely angry (I'm only half angry now [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com] and out of my mind.<P>I don't know where I'd be today without the forum-I don't know how people managed to work their way through something this painful without a support system like this. I bet I couldn't have done it.<P>Babstr, you'll have an opportunity here to deal with the betrayal and we'll all help each other get through all this. You are in so much pain right now and probably feel so dismissed with the OC taking the spotlight; I am so glad you have a place to come to.<P>catnip =^^=<BR>

#786400 05/09/00 07:11 PM
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I'm not really 'bothered' by the opinions of the people 'across the hall', it bugs me that they reduced themselves to name calling because they are frustrated or someone has hit a nerve somewhere. It causes them to loose credibility. <P>I don't think Girlfriend is really anyone's OW here on the forum. When I said that, I was just trying to kid her into abandoning her militant stance and get into a open minded debate. I know Girlfriend isn't MY spouse's XOW because XOW is computer illiterate - and, I'm not being mean, simply stating a fact.<P>Popeye: I completely agree with you on all your points. Especially that the marriage MUST come first. K agrees as well, I see.<P>I have mentioned several times here on the forum that David and I met the priest we met at Retrouvaille in March 1999. He told us that our first responsibility was to the marriage and to each other -- that nothing can be built on sand, that we had to have a solid foundation first; and then, there should be no contact with the OC unless I was in complete agreement. Until that time, our responsibility was some financial.<P>I remember feeling so relieved to hear that. I had so many raw emotions and issues of my own to face and felt so torn and so guilty about this kid growning up with only one parent. Yet, I knew I didn't want anything to do with the OC.<P>My feelings have softened a bit, however, the OW has made the decision for us aa she doesn't want either David or myself involved in her child's life. <BR>In fact, she has slapped me with an OFP on false charges as a retaliatory measure for having the audacity to write her a letter. It wasn't mean, it was just true and it made her mad.<P>catnip =^^=

#786401 05/09/00 11:09 PM
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I'm only far enough along in healing that some comments tear at the scab...ie, I'm not recovered enough to be thick-skinned about some (particularly arrogant, judgemental) points of view. It stirs up unhappy feelings and reminds me how poorly we in this situation can expect to be treated by some people. <P>I also sometimes wish there WERE 'absolute' answers available, that someone could say "this is what you are morally obligated to" and I could be confident that they are right and that we have done it all! Because I DO wonder to what extent we have an emotional as well as financial obligation to the Other Child. I care about her as my husband's child, an innocent child; I know she is NOT in the greatest environment and I'd be happy to raise her, but her mother will never agree to that. I feel completely helpless to "save" OC. The only way we could be involved in OC's life is to move back to the XOW's state/area, FAR from our own relatives, an area we greatly dislike for many reasons! Then we'd have "visitation" rights; worth it? Obligated? I've come up with boundaries, but are they "right"?? Who knows??<P>K, not only do I admire your love for your wife and your son/OC, I envy the simplicity you have in raising him without the XOP involved.<P>It hurts to see the pain my H goes through, the shame and guilt for hurting his family and for not being a father to the OC. It hurts me nearly every day. We've lost 4 babies of our own together, and as catnip says "that should have been my baby". H and I have been considering adopting a child for long time, and I even wonder if we have a moral "right" to do that, under these circumstances. Most of the time it seems fine, but don't we all live with doubts??? Maybe any thinking person should... <BR>

#786402 05/10/00 03:11 PM
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Yes it can be depressing but then most of the topic are too!! This is without a doubt a very tough thing to talk about and a lot of people have been hurt therefor temper can an have flared up. every now an then we need to remember that if someone takes the time to read our story or problem then that is another ear to talk to.For me it is not always what someone said in response but more that someone did respond!!!! <BR>It is easy to put words down but very hard to put feeling on paper. So when reading we must remember that how we feel could have a little to do with ohw what we read sound like. Plus some of us are awful at putting our feelings down. This probably make no sense but I tried<P>thank you all for lending me your ears(eyes)

#786403 05/10/00 11:26 PM
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FYI, in regards to the heated discussions that were on the General board. I have been reading quite a few posts tonight, and have found out something. I realize that a lot of people have very strong views when it comes to this. But I also found out tonight that quite a few that were die hard, are OWs themselves. Makes me wonder if they really felt the way the did. Or if it was just the sisterhood of OWs that was making them back them up, rather than seeing how it hurts the spouse and her children. I just thought that was interesting. <P>babstr.

#786404 05/10/00 11:32 PM
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Babstr:<P>What are OW's doing on the Marriage Builders Forum? Are they married and trying to save their marriages? Or are they single and cruising a forum for...what? I'm going to buzz across the street and see what's going on in General Questions.<P>catnip =^^=

#786405 05/11/00 11:19 AM
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Some were just OW. And some were wives and OWs. I just thought it was interesting. It doesn't mean anything. I am sure there are ows here just like some wives look at the TOW board. But most people just read. <P>babstr.


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