D-day was a little over 6 months ago, and my W still seems as lost as day one, if not worse. I know that she is preoccupied with OC right now, who, by the way, has OM's last name. I still have ups and downs, but primarily ups. I have had an enormous amount of hope since D-day, but should I start telling myself that this may not work out? How long should I hold out for reconciliation when all I keep getting is a cold "Wall of China" type attitude. Is this the point at which most people say, "I will know when it is time to give up"? I need a little bit of encouragement to keep up the good fight.<BR>Floored

<BR>floored,<P>I don't recall your story details specifically, but be very careful to make sure you know when the "assumed paternity" statute kicks in. If things don't improve soon, you should probably go through the legal steps to deny paternity and avoid getting stuck with a CS bill.<P>Bystander

Bystander,<BR>Do I need to check on "assumed paternity" even if OM's last name is on the birth certificate? In my simple minded head, I thought that took care of that, but then again I haven't ever been in this situation! I would like to know so that I can protect myself. Thanks for the info.<BR>Floored

Floored I've been wondering about you. I'm sorry things aren't so good. If you truly want to give it more time then by all means do not throw in the towel.<P>Pregnancy is an akward time for a woman. You are flooded w/emotions. Maybe W is not thinking straight, I mean is om there a lot? participating in her and c life? <P>If that is the case it may be hard if that's all she's focused on.<P>Does she spend time w/kids? Do you talk to her at all? I'll bet it's hard not to let her see your broken heart. <P>I will pray for you as I do everyday, Floored. For God to show you the path you should take. Follow your heart for a while longer. You will sense when to stop.<P> Debi<P>------------------<BR>Imagine....

Gem,<BR>I don't know how much OM sees W, but OC is still in the hospital and will be probably for another month or two. She knows that I am heartbroken, but doesn't really seem to care because she doesn't even try to make me feel any better. I have talked to her quite a bit lately, but feel that maybe I should start avoiding her again. She spends about a day and a half per week with our two kids. I can't see how a mother could be satisfied with that little of time with her kids.<BR>Floored

floored,<P>You really shouldn't be talking to her at all during Plan B. And 6 months is too short of a period to pitch your hope. I'd give it another 12 months---but you ABSOLUTELY must cut the contact. <P>And yes, I'd check into the paternity issues with a lawyer.

Dear Floored,<P>When my first son was born, he had some complications that caused him to spend the first week of his life in the neonatal untensive care unit. During that time, I was so focused on him being there and on trying to help him get stronger that I couldn't think clearly enough to decide between a ham sandwich and a peanut butter sandwich. I don't even think your wife is thinking about you one way or another right now. I mean that as encouragement. I'm betting that she is so involved with the health of the oc that she isn't giving her situation a bit of thought right now. My guess is that you will have to wait until oc is out of the hospital before you start seeing any kind of change in your w, be it for better or worse. right now, she is probably on "cruise control" as far as the rest of her life goes.<P>Floored, don't give up now when you have come so far. Hang in there a little while longer and see what happens. I am praying so hard for you.<BR>-cd

floored,<P>You need to see a lawyer. I mean, you *really* need to see a lawyer. If your wife is only seeing your children one or two days a week, you are effectively the primary caregiver of your children. You might as well formalize this through a temporary custody order and make it that much more difficult for your wife to get primary custody and use the "child support" to subsidize a lifestyle with the OM. Further, I don't know about putting names on birth certificates. Unless paternity is established through court proceedings, its pretty safe to assume that you're going to be held financially responsible for the child. Because you're married, you need to formally deny paternity. Go see a lawyer. And please, don't carp about a few hundred bucks for a lawyer - weigh it against 18 YEARS of paying 25% of your net income to raise the OM's child.<P>I'm also of the view that once you have a temporary custody order in place, and you've formally denied paternity, it might snap her out of her fog. She will be ordered to pay CS and the financial strain might break her relationship with the OM.<P>Bystander

floored,<P>I have been following your posts. I am very sympathetic to you, but I feel that you really need to understand something. <P>I am a lawyer in Texas, and I can assure you that if you and your wife were married at the time that this child was born, you are the assumed father. If you are considering divorce at any time, I would suggest that you see a family lawyer immediately and take steps to protect yourself financially. If you do not, and you later divorce, you could very easily be obligated to pay child support for this child.<P>May the Lord Bless You and Keep You,<BR>John

I guess I have some tough decisions to make soon. Fortunately, I have a cousin that is a family law attorney and he said that I have two choices 1)file for divorce and have a better chance of getting custody which will pretty much kill the reconciliation option or 2) wait to see if W comes around an reconcile, BUT this option also gives her a chance to get back on her feet and helps her chances at getting the kids. His advice as an attorney was to go for the kids, but his advice as a Christian was for me to decide if I really thought she would come around and work on the marriage. He said that if she wanted to turn everything back on me and then say she was sorry and has turned her life around, she might have a chance at getting the kids, even though she has done all of this to me. He said that it is still hard for the father to get the kids in a divorce. What do I do? HELP!!<BR>Floored

IsIt2late,<BR>I replied before I read your post, but what do you think about my cousin's advice? I have two kids 7 and 4 and have had them by myself since 9/00. In 1999, she left for 6 mos then also. How much would her abscence weigh in court? My cousin thought that if she was a good enough actress, she might be able to snow the jury or judge. That is my biggest nightmare. My cousins advice would be to kick her while she is down to increase my chances of getting the kids, but I don't know if that is what I should do. I appreciate your reply. By the way, I'm a Red Raider!! Graduated Fall 1991!<BR>Floored

Floored!<P>Listen to bystander! It may wake her up and protect you and your kids!<P>Run to the attorney. Get on now! GO!!!!!<P> Debi<P>------------------<BR>Imagine....

floored,<BR>I dont think if you went ahead with the divorce that it would ruin all chances. It would protect you then if things work out later you could always get remarried. I agree with gem run run run. Were still holding on to hope for you. with love flowerseed

floored,<P>i don't know what advice to give about when to give up, but i definitely agree you need to see a lawyer and get paperwork started. if your wife ever wakes up, she will see that you were only doing what was in the best interest of the kids. my prayers for you floored. i am a red raider, from hawaii though.<P>may god be with you in this tough time...<P>happy_girl

Dear Floored,<BR>I am going to throw in my two cents again - just remember that this is only my opinion.<P>I don't see you protecting yourself legally as "kicking your wife when she's down". I think that you NEED to protect yourself not only for your sake, but for your kids' sake as well. I think that you should do whatever it takes to get custody, to deny paternity, and to protect your assets. I say this because of what I watched my brother in law go through. his w was working as a cashier at a truck stop. She met a truck driver with an EXTENSIVE criminal record, and left b.i.l. She ran off to another state with this guy, and took their kids along with her, giving b.i.l. no warning. She also took most of their possessions with her. B.I.L. filed for a got temporary custody. he cared for the children (2 daughters, ages 4 and 2 at the time) for a couple of months by himself. Then his w. filed for full custody. The courts ruled that since she now had a permanent home with the truck driver, had gotten a job, had set up appointments for the kids with a pediatrician where she was living, and had arranged for daycare for them in the other state, she should have full custody. B.I.L., on the other hand, had not finalized all of his arrangements, so he lost, even though his wife's boyfriend had a criminal record and even though she hadn't seen them for months. B.I.L. got now-and-then visitation and is paying through the nose in child support. DO NOT give your w. a chance to get on her feet or you may lose out on raising your kids.<BR>I should also mention that b.i.l. had NO criminal record, had had the same job for 10 years, and owned his own home. Courts side with the mother too much for you to be wishy washy on this stuff.<P>Besides that, I agree with bystander that you taking legal action to protect yourself may snap your w out of her hypnotic state.<P>good luck, and you're in my prayers,<BR>cd

Floored, I must agree with all the others who have posted about getting legal help. The courts too often rule in favor of the mother. There are tons of sites out there that advocate fathers's rights. I have read many articles in these sites and most of it talks about how unfair the courts are for the fathers, and how they are trying to change things to help the dads more. Before anything terrible happens like some of the stories I have read, get help and advise. The sooner the better, I know you are hoping to mend things with your w, but for yourself and your children get all your options in order legally. As far as paternity, you should get it on court record that you are not the father with a DNA test. The finacial drain of child support is horrible, my H and my family are truely feeling it. I wish you all the best, and you are in my thoughts and prayers. Please for your children sake get some legal help. It took my H almost two years just to met his child. Fathers have it harder. Good luck, and god bless. Gabi1116

floored,<P>It is always good to hear from a fellow Red Raider. I recd my BBA in 1986, and my JD in 2000. <P>As much as I believe in the Harley methods and philosophy, I have to say that I agree with your cousin. Your wife has cheated on you, become pregnant, delivered the child, and given it the last name of her lover. She also wanted the lover there at the birth of the child. This is not the behavior of someone who is moving out of the fog. A divorce lawyer at $150-200 per hour tends to make people get real very quickly. <P>This is only my opinion, but there are some people who will not even see the need to change until they are faced with the full consequences of their actions. Up to this point, I believe that you have done everything you can to protect her from those consequences, at a great cost to yourself. I believe it is now time to protect yourself from the consequences of her poor choices.<P>Your cousin is correct. Even with your wife's behavior, you probably have no more than a 50% chance of getting primary custody of the children. However, because of your wife's adultery, you have a much better chance of getting a greater portion of the marital property. This could be used as a bargaining position, meaning you could agree not to push for more property in exchange for keeping primary custody of the children. <P>Additionally, beginning divorce proceedings will force your wife to look at this from a new perspective. If this does not force her to begin to come out of the fog, nothing will. Also, if you end the marriage now, your wife is more likely to seek child support from her lover because your support will be withdrawn. If she is successful, this child support obligation would continue even if you and she later reconcile. <P>I absolutely hate to suggest divorce, but with your situation, I see no other option. If you are a Christian, you have every scriptural right to divorce her with a clear conscience. I would suggest that you get with a small group from your church and have them pray with you and talk to you. Your wife obviously does not feel remorseful, and I think it is time to let her go.<P>Also, please realize that this drastic strategy may make your wife realize that she has made a horrible choice. When and if she returns, I would suggest that you try one of the courses at this site <A HREF="http://www.familydynamics.net/" TARGET=_blank>http://www.familydynamics.net/</A> <P>This is the web site for Joe Beam's organization. Joe was licensed by Dr. Harley to put together courses based on the Harley material. He was a minister who divorced his wife and then remarried her a few years later. There is a 3 day course called "A New Beginning". The site should be able to tell you when a course is available. If there is any way you could get your wife to this course, I believe that God could really make a change for you. Also, there is a "His Needs, Her Needs" course starting in San Antonio on March 27 at Max Lucado's church. <P>I pray for you my friend. lastnamejohn@hotmail.com<P>May the Lord Bless You and Keep You,<BR>John

Man oh man, I didn't expect this. I guess I was naive thinking that if I plan B'd and then things didn't work out, I would get the kids no matter what maybe I was in the fog too. I thought that due to the circumstances, there would be no question as to who got custody of the kids. This really scares me to death. I put in a call to Jen to read this thread and then advise me as to what I should do. One of the "His Needs, Her Needs" seminars is within an hour drive from where I live, but I'm not sure if it's too late for that. Anyway, pray hard for me to make the right decision.<BR>Floored

<BR>floored,<P>The horror stories go on and on. The courts are very biased against men, so effectively custody is a woman's to lose. The family courts just don't care that she's betrayed you, and ignore such conduct in assigning custody. So its possible that you could find yourself sending her a large "child support" check that goes towards the OM's new truck. You should keep in mind the following: (a) reversing primary physical custody borders on impossible, (b) the custodial parent does not have to account for so much as a nickel in where the "child support" money is spent, (c) the guidelines are *designed* to have a standard of living component in them, which means that at family incomes greater than $35k/yr, there is really no way to stop a diversion of CS funds to the CP's personal consumption. If you're starting to get the idea that "child support" is simply hidden alimony, you are quite right, that's exactly what it is at higher income levels. And while the notorious guidelines are rebuttable in theory, in reality they are de facto law. The system is very sick indeed.<P>Inaction here is deadly. You're in an unusual situation in that you can make a reasonable claim for temporary custody right now, and that will help you a lot down the road. Talk to a lawyer, man, do it today. I don't want to see yet another good man get flattened by the sick family "justice" system.<P>Bystander

But, Floored, you never accomplished Plan B with all the communication you've had with your wife.<P>What you are experiencing is not so much naivete (sp?) but hopefulness. When people are so desperate to reconnect with their wayward spouse, they all too often go into their own weird fog of denial. <P>IsIt2late and Bystander and K gave you premium quality advice and I strongly suggest you do exactly as they have prescribed and not waffle on this one or it could cost you everything that you hold dear. It could also be the catalyst for your wife to snap out of this amazing parallel universe she is living. But, regardless whether she does or not, you must think of yourself and your children. You must hire an attorney today and move forward to extract yourself from any personal liability for child support for the OC.<P>Floored, you've been through so much and have been so unhappy now for so long. Isn't it time to be proactive and start by hiring an attorney that can protect you and your kids? As for your wife; leave her to Heaven.<P>Love<P>Catnip =^^=