I have said this before ,but I will repeat it.. I believe that if a man gets a woman pregnant that he isn't married to ,this is what should happen:<P>THe man should be able to relinquish any and all responsibility to oc if he agrees to legally give up all rights to the child. The man should be able to go in front of a judge and say I will not have anything to do with this child and sign an affidavit stating this. Then after that if the woman decides to keep the baby then she is solely responsible, finacially and otherwise. If she decides toabort (I am agaisnt it)then the man has to pay half.Now if he wants to be involved with the child then, the laws about cs can apply.

Interesting thought. Only don't you think that since both parties consented to the act that they should both shoulder the responsibilty of caring for the child - with or with out the father's direct involvement in the child's life? My major beef is when fathers have to pay unGodly amounts as if they are paying ALIMONY. SOME moms then use the money for their own personal expenditures/bills rather than on the children. My take on that is this: If they didn't have the children, would they still not have to have a place to stay? Wouldn't they still have to buy groceries, pay household expenses and carnotes etc. The answer is a resounding YESSSSSSSSSS! Then don't use the money for that - use it for the children....for clothes, shoes, school expenses and supplies etc. I know every situation is different, but that is MY take on the situation.<P>PEACE to you!<p>[This message has been edited by sickofthis (edited August 07, 2001).]

I know in my state that the person paying child support can request receipts for every cent of cs spent. And every cent has to go towards the child. <P>The idea of 2 people consenting to have sex is one thing, but I believe having a child is another. Just because the woman decides to have the child, I don't believe the man should be forced into responsibilty. M y H chose to have a role in the oc's life without my resistance. I believe that makes him the father that he is to our children. B ut it isn't for everyone.

sickofthis, I also feel giving permission for sex, and not giving permission for parenthood, are two different issues.<P>If a woman has sex with five guys at a party [consentual sex, not rape], gets pregnant, waits for DNA testing, takes biological father to court for child-support, he pays for 18 years, and will always wish his sperm wasn't the fastest that day. Where is the justice?<P>ember

Ok, I think that you are way off! He had the sex, and maybe he didn't want the child, but it is an inherent, understood risk that you are taking when you engage in sex. It is probably even riskier when you are with the "other woman" - it's pretty standard that the OW is not known as well as the spouse would be, plus, she is engaging in a relationship based on lies, so it's quite possible that she could be lying about the birth control issue to the man.<P>Here's my take on the matter of responsibility. H fathered the child, therefore he NEEDS TO BE A FATHER! In my mind, this is not only financial obligation, (which should be some *FAIR* amount), but also the responsibility to be the emotional father by having a physical and emotional presence in the child's life. This is one of the consequences of his actions. But, it can also be something beautiful that comes from something bad - God working all things together for the good of those that love Him.<P>For the BW's out there (keeping in mind that I haven't been through this myself). The OW will obviously be at least a small part of the rest of his life . . . I would think guidelines around contact would need to be set(when, where, how, content of contact, if BS if involved/informed of all contacts), rather than the "no contact" that is usually recommended. OC should probably play a bigger role so H is facing his responsibilities. Will it hurt at first - maybe always? I would think so. Probably something that needs to be considered if reconciliation is going to work. <P>If you are dealing with this right now - my prayers go with you. I can only imagine what it must be like. I pray that you will put your marriage ahead of your comfort, and begin to tackle all the issues this problem brings.<P>- WLE

[QUOTE]Originally posted by blue00:<BR>[B]I know in my state that the person paying child support can request receipts for every cent of cs spent. And every cent has to go towards the child. <BR> What state do you live in? In this state the mother doesn't have to account for one thing. I know I have said many times i was a single mom and i will fight to the death to make sure that men are held financially responsible for their children. Do i think there ahould be some reform, you bet but not elimination, and pleases remember that is from a bs that helps pay almost 1300/month to the oc.<BR><p>[This message has been edited by whatif? (edited August 07, 2001).]

Although I started out married I ended up raising my kids as<BR> a single mom he had nothing to do with them when we divorced and I didnt even bother wasteing my time worrying about my ex paying child support and I had two by him. I took care of them myself. I guess that shows we all are diffrent but its o.k. Maybe thats why I dont see any reason ow shouldnt be able to figure it out for themselves. with love flowerseed <p>[This message has been edited by flowerseed (edited August 07, 2001).]

For the record, I didn't start this post, but I will reply. I totally disagree. Both parties know that pregnancy IS a risk when one chooses to have sex. Also, the man knows it's the woman's ultimate decision whether or not to keep the child. While adoption in my view is the best choice, you can't make the woman do it. These are just the facts that adults are well aware of when they engage in sex. Therefore, BOTH parents need to be held responsible. If you don't want to risk pregnancy, there is a very simple way to avoid it....don't have sex!<BR>

Hey Bonniebb,<P>I agree with you under the following circumstances. <P>Let's make the law equal for both men and women by outlawing abortion. Then neither sex has a choice. <P>BTW, I'm pro-choice, but would support this because it doesn't give women special priviledges not granted to men. <BR>Either give both sexes choice or neither. You can't have it both ways. <P>Would this be considered equal protection under the law? I honestly don't know, but it seems like it would be. <P>In case anyone's wondering who the heck I am! I Hope to give some background on me soon. Telling my story now would be a big LB for hubby. Hoping that will change soon. <P><BR>

How about this idea?<P>If BOTH parents are to be held responsible, then give BOTH parents equal *physical* custody rights, give BOTH parents equal *legal* custody rights, and wipe out CS altogether since NEITHER parent will have the child more or less than the other. If you think father's should be responsible, then LET them BE responsible by giving them equal share and equal time and leave the money issue alone. <P>If SHE wants to adopt the child out and HE does not, then give him full custody and make her sign off her rights to the child. NO CS. No problems. <P>If HE wants to adopt out the child and SHE does not, then give HER full custody and make HIm sign off his rights to the child. No CS. No problems.<P>If SHE wants to abort, she should HAVE to get his permission before any abortion can take place. After all, it was HER responsibility too and this is part of taking responsibility for having unprotected sex. If he does NOT want her to abort, then MAKE her (yes I said MAKE) have the child (again, part of being responsible, doing the responsible thing and all! Equal sex SHOULD mean equal rights to parent.) and hand the child over to the father to raise without CS or obligation from the mother. <P>Does any of this apply to anybody here? No. What applies here is this: people doing what they need to do to survive, keep their families whole and their sanity intact. It may not be the "right" way for some, then again, it simply doesn't matter. It is my FIRMEST belief the RIGHT way is doing WHATEVER it takes to holds your family unit together.<P>So again, I say to every person on this board IN this REAL situation, if you feel comfortable doing what you're doing, then YOU ARE DOING THE RIGHT THING by all. <P>Well, rant over. <P>Take care,<BR>CoR

The problem with several of these alternatives is that the child is not a "legal" entity until s/he is born---so a lot of the scenario's concerning abortion cannot work. In fact, there's not a convenient way to establish paternity <I>in utero</I>, so while the mother's identity is pretty well estabished , the father's remains in doubt.<P>Furthermore, you cannot relinquish "rights" to an unborn child. The courts don't allow it, because the child isn't a legal entity until they are born.<P>There's not a trivial answer to these questions---each situation may have it's own twist.

Actually, K, there is an in utero paternity test available. However, as you mentioned, there is a twist.. of course. Neither the courts nor the presumed father can make the mother get the test done. If there is another medical reason for an in utero procedure, then they can use that information to peform a paternity test. <P>Always a twist. <P>There are no simple answers to any of this, however I think if the system were truly equal, life would be much easier for all. <P>Take care,<BR>CoR