Since I don't start my new job until next Monday, I have had a lot of time to myself these past few weeks. Today I had my hair trimmed and highlighted and I have spent far too much time in front of the mirror today trying to determine if this is a good look for me or not. <p>I sat in the chair in front of the tv this afternoon and surfed for a bit waiting for Dr. Phil on Oprah and happened on Sally Jesse. I hate her show because it's kind of smarmy. But, today was different.<p>A young woman who was about to be married. She was happy and had lot's of good things going on in her life but to make it complete, she deeply desired meeting her father and had tried for years to find him to no avail.<p>Well, Sally's staff found him and surprised her by having him on her show. The reunion between the two of them tore my heart out. They were both so moved at finally finding one another after so many years, they just kept crying and hugging each other and were absolutely joyful. <p>I was caught up in the moment with them and so happy for both of them that they had this chance to be together. After the 'glow' of happiness I felt for them was interrupted by commercial, I began to worry about my husband's situation and his OC someday feeling as intensely about finding her father as this young woman felt.<p>I read about all you amazing women here on this site who are bravely, lovingly and generously including the OC in their lives, seeking custody in bad situations, and feel so ashamed I feel so completely adverse to any contact on any level.<p>While I feel somewhat bad the OC will probably never know her father, I am adamant about no contact and I know I always will be...bordering on phobia over it.<p>I am absolutely terrified and threatened by OC existance and feel she has no right to even exist. And as awful as that sounds, I also live in fear of her wanting contact when she is older like this young woman on tv today.<p>What's wrong with me that I can't stomach the thought of this child even being on the face of this earth? While I wish her no ill will, I wish she didn't exist, that the affair never happened and feel OW had no right at all to bring that kid into this world by my husband, let alone get knocked up to begin with.<p>I got so angry later today, both at my husband, at OW and myself for this entire mess and for making me feel so ugly about what they did and the final outcome of all of it. I resent she picks our pocket every month to the tune of $1300 that leaves us with next to nothing to survive. I resent that I have changed so much because of it and that this situation has revealed a side to me I never knew existed. I often wonder how I would see a person with my rigid views fi this had happened to someone else and I were just an observer, not knowing first hand what this feels like.<p>By staying with me, my husband cannot have contact. If he would ever want contact, he would have to be alone without me. And I hate that I feel so strongly about this and that these are the rules. It makes me feel so dictatorial or something.<p>If any of you knew me before all this happened, well, you would definitely not recognize me. I never ever mandated anything on anyone. I was so easy going...live and let live, accepting and open. Now I am just so rigid in the way it has to be. Fortunately for me, my husband absolutely insists he wants nothing to do with that and he made his choice long ago to stay with me and continue our marriage.<p>The 22nd is our 22nd anniversary and I am not comfortable. I am constantly second guessing whether or not I can continue with him. We are supposed to move into our new place together on 4-4 and I am wondering if I should let him. My gut is telling me I shouldn't because I don't believe anything he says. I keep thinking that he acts and sounds exactly as he did for all those years before the affair and if he could do this to me when we were so conencted and happy, he could do this to me again. I am not even taking the bipolar-alcohol thing into the equation...I am simply thinking about the bond we had, the vows he broke and for what? None at all.<p>If we never would have been so 'us' for all those years, if it had been bad or lacking or distant or something that would have made me say, "Oh well, this is why it happened! No wonder! I wasn't doing this or that." But, none of it can be said and that is why I am so steamed. <p>End of tangent. Thanks for your tolerance of my rant. There is no point ot any of it. This has mostly been free flowing anxiety because very soon we are going to be sleeping in the same bed again and living under the same roof again and next weekend we are going to a hotel and I guess, I am scared. Scared he doesn't "really" mean it. Maybe I just don't want to waste my time on something I can't be sure of now. I don't know. Thanks again for bearing with me and my ugly attitudes.<p>Catnip =^^=

Well, I would hope that OC would be considerate of your H's wishes NOT to be found... Evidently the dad who agreed to meet with his bio daughter on the Sally show didn't mind having been found by his daughter...<p>God has a plan for anyone born on earth, regardless of how they got here. Especially OCs who come into the world in the most adverse circumstances. There is a higher purpose for any OC's existence... There MUST be. Because you are right, it is NOT God's idea for any child to come into this world that way--through adultery... Maybe it would help if you view it that way--as God having a plan and seeing the big picture HE has for the OC's life? You know, to be able to at least (in your mind) allow the OC to live and be able to just plain accept OC's existence... [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] Maybe?<p>The CS amount you are paying is unacceptable. That much money leaving your family budget every month is outrageous. Personally, I'm asking the Lord to do something about that asap... Un-believable...<p>I wonder if, because you actually took the trip to visit the OW and experienced all that emotion early on, perhaps that contributed to your discomfort with any contact. I know it would mine, IF I were in your shoes. Then again, I don't know if I would have the nerve to go face OW and spend time with her like you did. Pretty gutsy move.<p>Nevertheless, your H has the RIGHT not to want to be found. Maybe we can pray for OC to have a stable life full of love and contentment and enough adults in her life contributing to her fulfilment. Perhaps one day, if not today, you can arrive to the point where you are willing to pray for the OC... At least you won't live in a sort of a prison of fear regarding her existance(?) if that is the case? Prayer would be a way of releasing the OC into God's hands. He can take better care of OC's than anyone! Then, OC would be God's problem forever and not yours (to worry about)! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Wow, catnip, you know, that Sally show--seems to me it's just another one of those triggers popping up to haunt you right at a time when you are about to take a leap of faith and move back in with your H. Probably 99.5% of what you fear won't even come to pass. Only the Good Lord knows what the future has in store for us all. "What if" thinking can be so damaging to enjoying the present moment. You could be celebrating your anniversary. Sure there have been lots of bumps, but I know there have been many happy times too. I know because you've written about some of those happy times right here on this board!<p>Thanks for sharing your heart. I don't believe you can continue your relationship with your H without feeling like you are taking a big risk each and every minute you decide to trust him with your life. Oh well... no guts no glory, right?!<p>[ March 20, 2002: Message edited by: BINthereDUNthat ]</p>

Catnip, It is very understandable that contact with the OC would be a constant reminder of the A. It seems you are already having a hard time dealing with things even without having this child in your life. I agree with BTDT, God must have a plan for these children. I like to think so in the case of my daughter. Maybe she will find a cure for cancer, be first woman president, or even just have the opportunity to save someones life someday. I think the child support you pay is disgusting!! I get $90 a week or $360 a month. How on earth did the courts come up with that amount?? <p>Please give your H the chance to show that he "means it". A lot of us WSs really do. Sometimes it takes almost losing what you have to realize just how much it means to you. Allow yourself the chance to be happy again.<p>BTW I bet your hair looks great!! And stay away from Sally Jesse!!

Dear Catnip,
Totally understandible feelings.
This has been a very trying month in our lives as well.
I have been trying to accept these 2OC in my life but it is so difficult. I constant reminder of why they are in my life is ever present. I too often have those thoughts wishing they did not exist, which makes me feel like an absolute horrible person. <p>The stress of H losing his job over this A, while OW gets to keep hers is putting me over the edge. We are dealing with attorneys, but there is no recourse, accept the severence package and get out. <p>Meanwhile our cs payments will continue at 1,500 per month, until severence runs out. I am at my emotional breaking point. <p>I have put to my H the past week "what if I can not deal with this visitation anymore"? He keeps telling me that is why we are going to therapy, so I can deal with it. <p>I understand so much the change in personality. I used to be a trusting, caring, person who was so happy with my life. Now the sight of fathers cuddling babies sends a wave of depression through me. Watching my H interacting with the 2oc is so difficult. He keeps waiting for the magical 2 year point to come where everything will be fine, and no more grieving. <p>Two more months till our daughters wedding. I hardly have the energy or desire to plan this event. <p>I hope your anniversary will be the start to making pleasant memories for the future. <p>Tina

BTDT<p>I woke up this morning with the intention of deleting this post. I was laying in bed thinking too much again, and projecting ahead too far again and mused that I have been on the board for nearly three years and it doesn't seem I have progressed much.<p>Then I read your post and know that you truly understand. <p>Making that spontaneous trip out to meet OW was a good thing....really it was. I confronted the demons that were preventing me from moving ahead with the recovery at the time. I just had to meet this person that was so successful at turning my husband's head. I mean, I thought she must really, really be something special if he would abandon me for her. I'll never forget how flabbergasted I was when I met her.<p>The young woman on the Sally show was so completely determined to meet her father. Her longing for this meeting and for a relationship is what got to me. I realized that other people's feelings are as strong/intense as mine are...including OC's. Your advice to turn this over to the Lord and just know He will take care of her is exactly what I have to do. I can't think about OC or her feelings or what they will be somedday because I can't afford to feel any tenderness or care for her or her needs. Sometimes I find myself worrying about OC and wondering about her and feel a certain tenderness toward her that does nothing but make me feel guilty that I am the one standing in the way of her relationship with her father.<p>I know Bipolar says he has no desire to have contact, never thinks of her and says she isn't real to him because he never saw OW pregnant nor has he ever seen OC, but that in itself was calculated because I went to great lengths to make sure/manipulate the situation by rescheduling court dates so he wouldn't see her pregnant. When court finally came I insisted that she be restricted from bringing OC to court saying I was the one who couldn't take her presence, while this is true, the real reason was so my husband wouldn't catch a glimpse of her.<p>I've never admitted this before and I vascillate between being ashamed at my obvious fear, the perceived threat to me and to my marriage and manipulating the situation and feeling entirely justified to do whatever I must to preserve what is mine. <p>Bipolar comes from a large family and I have watched his sweetness and tenderness with his other children and his deep love for his granddaughter that is just two years older than OC. I keep hoping that his granddaughter gives him whatever is missing because of no contact with OC. If you saw him with babies and children, you wouldn't believe him either when he says he has no interest in OC. Of course, I also thinks he equates OC with the most horrendous time in our lives and represents a shame he has great difficulty living with. He seems to deeply want things to be as they were and it seems he is more successful at putting the past behind him than I am. He doesn't see my fear and pain because I hide it very well. I do tell him sometimes what I am thinking and my fears when the opportunity arises, but I make sure this is not something discussed on a daily, weekly or even monthly basis. In fact, he seems to want to talk about it more than I do and I ask him not to because I get so upset. <p>This support issue is our next hurdle. We have not been able to appeal it or fight it until now because we have not had the money to pay off our accountant to do two years of complicated tax returns due to the fact we have owed him a couple thousand dollars for a couple years. So, naturally, tax man was reluctant to finish them for us worried he wouldn't get paid. Because Bipolar works at least 20 hours overtime on top of his 40 hour work week just so we have some revenue coming in, we have been able to pay off accountant. Now our taxes are almost finished which will give us ample ammunition to present our records to the courts and prove to them we don't have anything like they think we do and insist the arrears be adjusted retroactively and the payments reduced significantly to a fair and just amount. And they better not calculate his current overtime into the mix and just look at his base pay because he is older now and can't be working all those gruelling hours just to send OW exorbitant amounts of money. No one should have to put in more than 40 hours a week just to make ends meet.<p>The woman I am living with was married to her husband for 15 years and had four children with him. When they divorced, she was awarded a measly $550 per month.<p>My other friend was married to her husband for five years and when divorced she was awarded $500 per month for one child. She never received the payments and when they went to court, she made a deal with her ex and forgave the arrears that had accumulated.<p>Another friend had a child in college with another student. They both went on to become extremely successful people in the business world and my friend and her son have never received one dime of support, not one phone call, card or acknowledgment from the father. She never went after him for support because she had too much pride and knew she could take care of her son on her own. Today the son is a successful busienss man in a successful marriage.<p>I was married before to my son's dad and never received one nickel support and we survived just fine.<p>I must know at least 20 women who never got any support, raising their chidlren alone without any help and everyone of those kids turned out to be well adjusted, decent and productive adults...not one of them wanted for anything. All their needs were met from shelter, clothing and food to love, family and community.<p>Why the courts extort such huge amounts of money to pay off a total stranger to provide for someone in such grand fashion, I will never understand. The OW has to have a place to live whether she has a kid or not. That's HER repsonsibility. As far as support for a kid, I raised three kids on a few hundered a month for food, clothes and extras. Kids, especially babies, don't cost that much to raise. The way the courts are calculating this has me so outraged, it has clouded my thinking towards other areas where I may have been more "kind". <p>I'll try to look at the big picture, BTDT, and pray for OC and leave it at that. I will try to not do "what if" thinking because, you are right, it si damaging and counterproductive. I appreciate so much your reply and sound advice and genuine care more than you know. Thanks.<p>And thanks WIB for your support and kind words. I will give Bipolar the chance to prove he means it...with as much trust as I can muster. I know if he would have been more consistent to begin with after discovery and not had all those relapses, I wouldn't be so skittish. I will try to be aware of this and not be so guarded. <p>Tina, I am praying for you, Dear. You are facing such hurdles, I know. I will pray you will be able to focus on the wedding and not let these events of the past few years take from you something so special as your child's wedding. Don't let it.<p>I'm going out today to have some fun and lighten up. I think I will stay off the computer for a day and try to feel normal.<p>Love you guys<p>Thanks<p>Catnip =^^=

{{{{{{{{Catnip}}}}}<p>flip that hair with some attitude girl, I betcha it looks great!!!!!!<p>Peace!

Catnip,<p>You post really made me want to reply. I have so many similar feeling. When H and I first talked about the affair and OC I told him I didn't care to hear about her or to even hear her name. I have no desire to be a part of her life in anyway! H (remember has 2 other children with this OW from before we married). He visits every two weeks and follows the plan we(me)agreed to. I don't care if he visits, is a part of their lives but I don't want them involved in my life or my son's. (I've got a lot to work out on that issue..they are just not the kind of children I would even allow him to be friends with. I told my H as far as I am concerned they are not his sisters, but rather his other children and never the "twain" shall meet!) I have a difficult time dealing with these awful feelings I have because in every other aspect of my life I am a very nice person...this is just too much for me. It seems of all the messages I've read from others I'm the only one in this situation (H having children with OW before the affair...so dealing with this is so hard)<p>On another note from your second post. When I was 19 years old and a freshman in college I got pregnant. (both of us were single) My dd is now almost 22 years old. I never got nor did I ask for 1 cent of child support. I raised her myself,
spent 10 years earning my degree and working to get the job that I've dreamed of. She is now a hard working adult herself. She had never met her father, nor does she want to..and if she did it wouldn't be a happy time for him!<p>
I thank you for your honesty sharing your feelings all the time.<p>Take care,
Why

Dear catnip,
No, you're not standing in the way of OC having a father because you see, OC's MOM took care of that by getting pregnant by a married man who already had a family... SHE is the one who stood in the way of giving that child a "proper" life. You have nothing to feel guilty for. You have my permission to let yourself off the hook for once and for all! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

p.s. Good luck on your new job. You must be feeling the pressure and uncertainty of that when all these emotions hit you at once. Starting a new job is scary. I hope you like it and I hope that the people are nice and easy to get along with and willing to help you. AND I hope that there are some nice places to go for lunch! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

Thanks for your comforting words. It has made all the difference in the world today. I should know better than to write when my mood is so negative, because, today...well, like Scarlett...tomorrow is another day.<p>The sun is out and my mood is better...must be suffering from light deprivation. While I am still feeling a lot of fear, I am better.<p>Thank you again...so much.<p>Love<p>Catnip =^^=

Hi Catnip, <p>Long time, no post (on my part.) It's soooo good to see your posts again. I lurk constantly, but seldom post. My situation is very complicated (as is yours), and I ususally don't have the emotional energy to put thoughts into words. Lurking, however, gives me a measure of strength and some understanding as I try to deal with this ongoing ordeal.<p>As I mentioned to you ages ago when I first came to this board, our situations are remarkably similar, which is one reason that I am particularly interested in your words of wisdom....and I do mean WISDOM. You so often articulate exactly what I am thinking and feeling. <p>I, too, am 3+ years into recovery and still wrestle with so many issues. In my heart of hearts, I believe that the only way to finding some measure of true peace in my life is so remove my H permanently from it, but I am not prepared to do that, at least for now. I suspect you feel somewhat the same. I was particularly interested in one of your recent comments about focusing on yourself and living YOUR life and how that attitude has seemed to change Bipolar's reaction to you. I am trying to think in those terms too now, but it's not easy, since old habits die hard, and I have never focused on me and my needs first.<p>We have been married nearly 27 years...Affair last 5 or so years. I have one son from a brief marriage in my late teens, and present H was and is the only real father older son ever had, since my first H left us as soon as I had put him through college. (Incidentally, my first H also never paid a dime of CS, yet I somehow managed to support myself and my son and put myself through college, which makes me deeply resent the big bucks we must now pay in CS to OW.) <p>We have regular visitation with OC who is now 3. OC and I have developed a close bond, and I must admit I have grown to love her. She responds to me lovingly as well, and sometimes calls me "mommy" accidentally. The contact-with-OC part has become ok after a year and a half of regular visits, but it was very tough at first. The contact-with-OW part, however, is NOT ok, and is a source of major conflict in our marriage. Although I am convinced that the A is over (in fact, I think OW is getting married this summer), I am still hyper-sensitive and hyper-vigilant about everything having to do w/OW.<p>As you mentioned, one of the most difficult things about all this is how I have changed as a person. I, too, have always been a "live and let live" kind of gal. I was always proud of my patient, tolerant nature, but that is all gone now. I am no longer patient with others and quite intolerant of thoughtlessness, ill-mannered behavior, and stressful situations. As a result, I have managed to alienate friends, family members, and professional colleagues. The upside to that is, feeling as I now do, I really don't care anymore. But I wish I did.<p>I miss the person I used to be, just as I miss the relationship with my H that I thought we had. I know, I know...I've read the books and heard the advice. Yes, we still CAN have a good relationship etc., etc. and marriages do survive and flourish after an affair. But, in my opinion, all that "flourishing" is more likely and infinitely easier to achieve if the marriage hasn't existed as long as ours. Know what I mean, Vern? <p>Well, now that I've rambled on, I have forgotten the point I wanted to make. Oh, well. It's good to read your thoughts, Catnip. Hang in there, kiddo.
I love ya!!<p>Love,
anniem

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by anniem:
<strong>I was particularly interested in one of your recent comments about focusing on yourself and living YOUR life and how that attitude has seemed to change Bipolar's reaction to you. I am trying to think in those terms too now, but it's not easy, since old habits die hard, and I have never focused on me </strong><hr></blockquote><p>I love you, too, anniem. We go way back and we do seem to live a parallel life in so many ways.<p>The only difference I see is that my husband's affair lasted only three weekends and I wonder if that is why there is no contact with OC, while your husband must feel more of an obligation because the affair lasted longer. anniem, I don't know how you do it, but you are. I am absolutely sure I would not, but then, I said I would never stay married to a man who cheated on me...and I never did before now.<p>In fact, EVERYONE I have ever been involved with has been unfatithful to me. I came to this realization a few months ago and was stunned that this is true. It made me realize it said a lot more about me and my choices and obvious lack of self esteem to get a nice guy to begin with. That being said, the one of the biggest reasons I married Bipolar was because of his desperation to have a marriage based on fidelity because his first wife's notorious and painful cheating. <p>I truly, truly believed with all my heart and soul, that this was one thing I would never, ever have to worry about, something he would never ever do, and that I could (and did) endure anything as long as there was fidelity. I guess that's why I have become such an angry, angry person with such a nasty edge. I was duped into thinking this was it! I would finally get a huge payoff, fidelity, in this marriage, this relationship and somehow God was rewarding me for staying faithful to Him throughout my painful beginnings. <p>No matter what happened to me in my past, I stayed faithful and sweet, caring and loving through all the pain and hurts of the past. When this happened three and a half years ago, it was just too, too much to bear. So I have carried this anger, disappointment and resentment all this time, and this time I am unable to shake it. In fact, I never harbored such terrible feelings in the past. I can see that most of the women here who are young and loving, heartbroken but sweet, accepting of OC situations (if they must) are probably just experiencing infidelity for the first time. I remember feeling and saying the same things they do when my first husband cheated on me repeatedly when I was pregnant with our son. But, back then, being very young and a lot more beautiful, I also knew I had a lot more options. I could start over and find happiness because I had lots and lots of time. I don't feel like that anymore because I am now at the half century mark and have maybe 25 to 35 years left on this planet. Not a lot of time to make things good, not a lot of time to find peace and harmony.<p>It's weird but I had peace, harmony, closeness and fidelity for so many years with Bipolar yet I never ever took it for granted. I was soooo grateful for it and thanked God often for it because of what I had endured early in my life.<p>In reference to your above quoted statement, all I can say about that is that's true. I have been feeling that way for quite a while until I got a bad case of the negs the day before yesterday. I have been almost meek asking Bipolar if he was sure he wanted to go away this weekend. I have spent way too much time analyzing this but I have come to the conclusion that when Bipolar is tired and remote from working 12 to 14 hours a day and we don't see each other or he doesn't call or come by because he needs to sleep, I start getting paranoid that he doesn't want to be with me...that he is lying to me or that he has an agenda. If he isn't constantly telling me how much he loves me, I automatically assume he has 'changed his mind' about us and our future.<p>Fortunately, or unfortunately, I have become a consumate actress portraying a cavalier attitude but I know that one can almost always "feel" the truth, so my inadvertant 'dishonesty' borne out of fear and rejection will somehow be revealed unless I get real again and stop fearing the future. And then, poor Bipolar. He isn't sure what's going on anymore. <p>I must be sending double messages and I know one of the biggest reasons for all this confusion lately is that we have absolutely NO TIME to discuss US. We have had no time to do anything but try to survive, never mind trying to discuss what we think, feel and want to ourselves and each other. Just eat, sleep, work.<p>This weekend is NOT the time to have meaty heart to hearts about anything. We hardly have any money to do this weekend...it's the proverbial we can't afford it, and we cannot afford NOT to. Either way, I am not shelling out $200 on a room to have us end up in an emotional meltdown where neither of us are having fun. I have to put all the emotional baggage in storage for the weekend and just have fun. <p>You should see my hair. I hate it, he loves it. I have always had long dark hair, now it is streaked with blond highlights and now I look like everyone else who colors their hair. Ugh. One thing about maintaining your own stuff is that it is your own stuff, your own style. I felt like a fraud doing this because I love authenticity. Doc suggested I flip it with attitude so this morning during coffee with Bipolar, I flipped my head back trying to look sexy and banged the back of my head into the kitchen cabinet. He strained to not laugh and act concerned.<p>Anyway, anniem, I guess we are simpatico, n'est pas? It is so good talking to you again...it's been ages. <p>Love,<p>Catnip =^^=<p>[ March 21, 2002: Message edited by: catnip ]</p>

Catnip<p>We need to work on this hair flipping girl!!!!
I have to admit...I just sprayed coffee all over my monitor reading that [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Low self esteem seems to be a common bond we all have.I have wondered if that was one of the reasons he sought out another person. But come to find out this OW's self esteem is way lower than I could ever be. I think he like's his Knight in shining armor role.We're addressing that, as he always seems to have women coming to him for advice and support....UGH. But it was one of the things that attracted me to him.
As far as not having a lot of time left...Hon, you have to make the best of what time you do have.BTW I am not one of those younger women,I'm <cringing>middle aged. I've been around the block a few times, and experienced infidelity in a previous marriage.<p>Now I'm off to find my own attitude...and have the gray taken out...so I to ca flip my hair with attitude!!!
Hang in there<p>peace!<p>Peace

[img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] Hi Catnip, <p>Thanks for your response. I am smiling because I have this mental picture of you bangng your head while trying the famous "Sex in the City" toss of the head. A similar thng happened to me in the fitting room at Victoria's Secret when I tried on a push up gel bra. OH MY GOD. Even gel can't win against gravity. I don't now what I expected, since I am 53 and went braless for most of the 60s.
*sigh*<p>I'm relieved to hear you confess that you sometimes feel less than authentic...me too. I tell myself (and sometimes H) than I am a "together" person and do not need him for day to day survival. I make more money than he does (especially after the CS is deducted), have a better personal and professional reputation, have a clear conscience, and am respected by our family, friends, and sons. In short, in every area I wold be 100% better off without him. So what do I stay? Damned if I know! I've always thought love, but when I voiced ths comment to a counselor once, he said, "Could it be habit rather than love?" Maybe. Sounds as if you are in the same spot.<p>I, too, thought I had found my "knight" when I married my H. He was always so loving and devoted--even when the A was going on. Counselor's observation was the he has a Narcissistic Personality Disorder which I have researched extensively. While H meets many of the personality and behavior criteria for NPD, some he doesn't meet. But I am, at the very least, dealing with a man with some narcissistic characteristics. Why do I stay? Why?<p>Ugh. I hate this. I just want it all to go away. I know that is the unhealthy attitude of an immature, unrealistic person, but I want a life...a real life. A life free of attorneys, child support, ugly confrontations, continual suspicians and fidelity worries, and all the other crapola that goes with this situation.<p>I'll close for now. Wish I had some chocolate cake. <p>
xoxox
anniem

i can really relate to this thread. the contact issue hurts, but it is a part of my life now. i also wonder what happened to the happy positive person that i used to be.<p>i know in my head what the kids need. and i know in my heart that what i want is very different. i am stuck. last night husband saw my pain and said do you want to take them back? i didn't answer (i don't see really how we could take them back and back is not exactly where they should be, but do they have to be with us????????) he doesn't understand how i could hurt so much over a child. he adores children and he totally disassociates these children with his affair. not me, i see a reminder of the worst time in my life. i feel guilty for thinking so badly of a child. i don't blame the child...really. but i do feel like i am paying (not him) for husband's mistake. literally.<p>and i no longer trust. i always look for other motives in most everyone. and i am bitter about many things. i feel like i have lost out and that so many choices have been forced upon me so i am no longer happy go lucky. (in college they used to meanly call me pollyanna.) la-ti-da la-de-da. not anymore.<p>i used to think that happiness was a choice and i would tell people to buck up and work hard for what they want. success comes in cans, etc. that never give up attitude got mowed over gradually as i realized that in order to do what i thought was right, i had to give up what i wanted. i guess it's which do i want more, to do the right thing or to be happy. well, thanks for giving me such a wonderful choice there hubby. it stinks. <p>i'm holding on to one thought...
a long time ago i met a guy over the phone through my job and we clicked. we decided to meet and date. and my question to him was, but what if you don't like the way i look? and he had a terrific answer. he said it doesn't matter what you or i look like. if we are meant to be together, then God will make us attractive to the other. <p>it's kinda the same thing here- it doesn't matter if this is something i want or not. if it is meant to be, then God will change my attitude and make it so i can be happy with it. if God directs us toward contact, then He will give the peace. and i'm praying for more peace in our house. i feel peace about the situation, i'm just having trouble being a player in this story. this may be a long road, but i do want to be happy again.

Well anniem and Catnip, I accidentally tried to quote something and screwed up.....IMAGINE???!!!!<p>I am posting after only reading 1/2 the replies Catnip received. ugh~~~<p>I agree with everything Catnip said about "doubt" and not wanting to give up any more time to oc/A.<p>I was betrayed by ow/priest/my gynecologist!(just found out he delivered oc by reading on birth certificate)/ h's friends and h.<p>As far as ob/gyn....I went in Nov. 2000 for all the ugly std tests and told him names and everything! He knew! He had been caring for ow all along...another betrayal by men I trusted....<p>After all this time I waver on just getting out.<p>Granddaughter is going to be born and delivered at same hospital by same DR. as ow and probably same month! A year apart. Don't think I can go.....~~~ sigh~~~~<p>I love/hate H today.<p>I am again in a position of confusion and sadness.<p>And Catnip, I already have the streaked hair....heh..heh..<p>AND I am fast approaching my 49th bd....but look great [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Sooo...I sit in limbo once again.<p>I work. I can make it. What to do? Oh! What to do.<p>Love and miss you all and lurk from work,<p>Debi<p>[ March 21, 2002: Message edited by: gemini1 ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by anniem:
<strong> Why do I stay? Why?</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Sometimes I think I stay for that amazing involuntary muscle spasm. Puuurrrrr.<p>Doc's Girl: Bipolar comes from a family where his mother, sisters, 2 brothers are all nurses. Another brother is a paramedic. Bipolar "wanted" to be a doctor and I have often thanked God he went into mechanics instead. He draws people like a Pied Piper with that charasmatic thing he has going on and while I never worried until three years ago that he could be unfaithful to me, I never liked entertaining the idea of him being charming all over a hospital filled with nurses or fem docs. Besides, he says the only difference betwen himself and a doctor is that he washes his hands AFTER the 'repairs'. Hahaha<p>Gem!!! Something to relate to! Found something to draw you out of the woodwork! Well, old Pal, your grandchild is going to survive Doctor Doolittle and you will survive the triggers once that kid makes his/her debut. I know you are in the "fighting triggers" stage big time. The time frame fits. I seem to be doing it a lot right now because I have so many crucial decisions to face...will I let Bipolar live with me? Of course! The decision is made. But, I have two weeks from today to change my mind.<p>Tomorrow we are going to spend the weekend at a hotel (ahhhh, room service! For breakfast they have oatmeal with sliced bananas and brown sugar that they glaze like creme brulee. It is incredible. Bipolar likes to feed it to me cause he likes to hear me groan...hahaha) and we are going to a blues club and rent movies in our room, and top the evenings off with one of those involunta...never mind.<p>aimee: They don't undestand...period...unless we did these things to them. Ask the boys on this board. They'll tell you they feel the same way we do. Fullhouse seems to be as oblivious to Pop's pain as your husband is to yours. It is the classic Perpetrator-Victim thing where the Perp says, "Whhhaaaaatttt? What's so bad? Why are you hanging on to this? Why can't you get over this?" crap. But, if any of this had been done to them...can you imagine the outrage? Can you even imagine them staying with you or me? Bipolar swears he would have stayed with me and raised it as his own and I just laugh. He was so jealous of my son from my previous marriage, he could hardly see straight.<p>anniem: NPD is very close to Bipolar disorder. Did you know that? A lot of the same behavior and symptoms. Things that only chocolate cake can fix for us takes huge amounts of meds for them. FYI<p>Leaving tomorrow at 4 PM...see ya<p>Catnip =^^=

You guys have said it all and so well. In trying to cope, we have lost something of ourselves. Innocense I guess. We'll never have that again.<p>For how many years, did we know ourselves? We groomed ourselves into the persons we wanted to be, and we liked who we were. So did everyone else, except the one person who should have liked us the best...our mates. <p>Now within a matter or months or a few years, we have to see not only our mates in a new way, but ourselves as well. We have to see that yes, there is a little DarthVader in all of us. We can all go over to the "dark side" in certain situations. This is just human nature. Its just the way people are. Tho I dont like that in myself and wish I could be the happy, contented person I once was.<p>One thing I have learned so far (13 mo past D-day) is that patience is essential. Just wait and see. I know, that how I feel today, isnt how I felt yesterday and it isnt the way Ill feel tomorrow. Sometimes my H would think I was crazy because I would say..."yes" something was ok one day, and the next day I would change my mind, or vise versa. <p>We need to realize we are coping the best we can with a life altering expierence. We need to give our selves permission to feel what we feel right now, and be who we are right now. It doesnt mean we'll always be this way, or feel this way. But for today its ok whatever that is.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by BINthereDUNthat:
<strong>Dear catnip,
No, you're not standing in the way of OC having a father because you see, OC's MOM took care of that by getting pregnant by a married man who already had a family... SHE is the one who stood in the way of giving that child a "proper" life. You have nothing to feel guilty for. You have my permission to let yourself off the hook for once and for all! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] </strong><hr></blockquote><p>I truely agree with this statement, I have been overwhelled lately with work, family, lawyers, ect, that I lurk often and post hardly ever. Just wanted to say hi to all my old friends, and wish everyone well, Peace to you all, Gabi1116

Sad facts of life... BS carries the burden of what WS did for the duration... WS's seem to not have any triggers that spiral them into depression--unless it is some type of withdrawal--I'm speaking of unrepentant WS's, that is.<p>We just have to keep giving our burdens to the Good Lord each and every day and focus on one moment at a time and that's it.<p>Just try to get from thought to thought and ask for help with each. Sometimes the things we think aren't even true! So we have to weigh them before we speak out things that may set a tone in the household that we could do without. Especially if it's a perfectly good day.<p>It must be tough fighting the temptation to throw the affair in the WS's face with an OC in the picture. Real tough trying to fill ENs and not LB. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] My heart goes out to you BS's dealing with OC's & CS & visitation & court & OW stalkers & OW squatters, and on and on...<p>*sigh*<p>Oh well... I too CRACKED UP when catnip said she flipped her hair and bumped her head. Sounds like something I would do. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] Only you know, my husband and I probably would have BOTH LAUGHED!<p>I know you BSs will be okay. You're all amazing spouses. Simply amazing.<p>[ March 22, 2002: Message edited by: BINthereDUNthat ]</p>