<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by want it back:
<strong>CMiranda, I was the WS. I lived the double life. The OP is an escape from reality and nothing more. Ask me now if tha A was a huge mistake. Ask me now who is and really had always been the one I truly loved. I ended the A. I came back to earth. WSs usually do. And I can say with complete and total conviction that what I had with the OP, although it felt wonderful at the time, can never compare to what I have with my H.
The A was the single biggest MISTAKE I have ever made, that's all it is, period!</strong><hr></blockquote><p>
I speak from both sides as well. I was the WS and the OW and I don't agree with you. I've made alot of mistakes in my life, my A wasn't necessarily one of them. It was a learning experience and I am a new and better person because of the relationship and friendship I had with my OM. I'm sorry if that isn't how you feel about your experience.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by BINthereDUNthat:
<strong><p>Oh well, that's your defensive feelings... Why don't you just calm down and let her be the judge of that...</strong><hr></blockquote><p>
Not defensive but put off by the reaction of people who want to know where she is. What does everyone expect, she came here for help in sorting out her life and she was attacked basically. Everyone here deserves to be treated with dignity and respect. We are all here for our own reasons but it's obvious that we all are in search of advice and perspective. I'm defending everyone's rights, not just hers. There is alot of insulting, condesending attitudes here so don't be surprised if a person decides that they don't need it. That is my point.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> I speak from both sides as well. I was the WS and the OW and I don't agree with you. I've made alot of mistakes in my life, my A wasn't necessarily one of them. It was a learning experience and I am a new and better person because of the relationship and friendship I had with my OM. I'm sorry if that isn't how you feel about your experience.<hr></blockquote><p>I'm sure this must make your H very happy to know this. Oh Yeah... that's right, I forgot. You don't tell your H the truth do you? New and better person??? I think not.

I just thought that I would pop in and say hello. Take a peek and see how all my favorite members are? [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>It is essential that we "play nice" here, so please, no one cross the line.<p>In advance thank you for your cooperation,

[QUOTE]Originally posted by CMiranda:
[qb]<p>
1. Not defensive but put off by the reaction of people who want to know where she is.<p>Response: Only ONE person stated that they wondered where she was.<p>2. What does everyone expect, she came here for help in sorting out her life and she was attacked basically. <p>Response: Why do you construe anyone's advice as an "attack" simply because someone disagreed with her...and you? You will never learn anything if you see honest advice as an "attack".<p>3. Everyone here deserves to be treated with dignity and respect. <p>Response: Especially if they deserve it and show respect towards the people they have differences of opinion with and not come off as self righteous and judgmental. This is MARRIAGE BUILDERS and we adhere to the Harley principles, the Rules of Honesty, Protection and the Policy of Joint Agreement between spouses. If you have no respect for our site, our marriages and come here without apology for the lives you have harmed, then you do not belong on this site.<p>4. We are all here for our own reasons but it's obvious that we all are in search of advice and perspective.<p>Response: Really? Then why do you get so mad when someone tells you something you don't like? It sounds like you are looking more for absolution. <p>5. I'm defending everyone's rights, not just hers.<p>Response: No, you're not. What I see is a lot of rationalizations and disrespectful judgments.<p>6. There is alot of insulting, condesending attitudes here <p>Response: You're right. And the lion's share of them have come from you. I admit you've got my back up and I am always unhappy when a thread turns counterproductive, but when an OW comes to MARRIAGE BUILDERS, I am naturally suspicious of her motives. I mean, what's her point? To convince us what? And why on earth would she think any of us would really care what she thinks?<p>Any OW coming here that has no heart, no compassion and shows to be completely unapologetic for the pain she has caused innocent families is lower than sand worms in my book and are summarily dismissed from having any credibility. We have many OW's here that we love and are definitely part of our group here. But, they acknowledge the damage created by the destructive actions and see clearly, with their minds and hearts wide open, how to change their situations and their lives and have regret for harming others. They don't have to agree with us at all on all issues, but they have to deliver their point of view with respect and compassion and understanding and an open mind.<p>[ March 29, 2002: Message edited by: catnip ]</p>

cMiranda:<p>Oh, for crying out loud!!!! End the F***ing lies, for Rice Cake!!!<p>You sound like you just plan to live a miserable life, your kids too, because you've gotten yourself so deep into this deception thing and "built" a psuedofamily in the process, that you just can't dig out and have to rationalize your existence to support the fantasy. Get it out in the open, put it all out on the table for everybody involved to see. Get the pain and the crying over with and get on with your lives with HONESTY, and TRUST, and INTEGRITY to guide you and yours through your lives from now on! <p>Sorry to come across as such a [censored] here, but this kind of s*** really tweaks my gain knob, because it ruins the lives of so many otherwise thoughtful, trustworthy, and beautiful people, and it does so all too often!!!

Xaralel: (hope I got that right, it's on the previous page!)<p>Sorry about the apparent anger in my previous post. I don't mean to be so angry, just that I feel strongly that, if this other life that cmiranda is living is such a good thing, she ought to bring it all out in the open and let everyone know just who is in their extended family. Deception over generations can't be good for them.<p>As to the original poster, I saw her posting to other threads, and I disagree with cmiranda about how she has been "treated" on this forum. I think that, though some posts may have sounded harsh to her and particularly to cmiranda, all who responded did so with firm kindness. They all recognize the delicate position the original poster is in, and certainly wish her well in her own recovery from her situation and in raising her child. That she continues to post to this forum shows that she, at least, is interested in being constructive with people in her own life. Hope cmiranda can see the wisdom of being honest with her "extended family" and start on her own road to a better future with them.<p>That's all. I'll get out of this icky thread now, once and for all. Love to all.

cMiranda:<p>Oh, for crying out loud!!!! End the F***ing lies, for Rice Cake!!!<p>You sound like you just plan to live a miserable life, your kids too, because you've gotten yourself so deep into this deception thing and "built" a psuedofamily in the process, that you just can't dig out and have to rationalize your existence to support the fantasy. Get it out in the open, put it all out on the table for everybody involved to see. Get the pain and the crying over with and get on with your lives with HONESTY, and TRUST, and INTEGRITY to guide you and yours through your lives from now on! <p>Sorry to come across as such a [censored] here, but this kind of s*** really tweaks my gain knob, because it ruins the lives of so many otherwise thoughtful, trustworthy, and beautiful people, and it does so all too often!!!

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by CMiranda:
<strong>My reasoning is that the WS in many cases is in love with OW/M and while loves the spouse, is not "in love" and there is a difference. It is not as simple as changing feelings like you suggest. I have been working on it for a long time and it is just not that simple. If it were, we'd all get out of painful relationships and not fall into despair and hopelessness. </strong><hr></blockquote><p>Your mind tells your heart who to love. It really IS pretty simple.

I have been lurking here and am amazed at where this has gone. However I couldn't resist puttin in my 2cents for what they are worth.<p>When you mention "being in love" and "loving" a person, my sensibilities went NUTS.
My H told me he loved me, but he was in love with OW. That was 9 years ago. Guess what, he is Loves me now, and the OW is an embarassment he wishes he could go back and make different choices than the ones he made concerning her.<p>When will
people learn that being " in love" is like a drug addiction. The high only lasts for a short while, then one must come down. A person could spent all their lives looking for that high generated by being "in love". If you truly love someone you love them by choice. Love is an action word. You love them throught thick and thin because of himself/herself as well as in spite of himself/herself. You love that person when they are throwing up in the bathroom and you love them while in the throes of lovemaking.
If one does not realise that then that person needs to grow up and get a life, perferably the one her created with the orinal lover he had and created a marriage (and maybe children with).<p>Well just my thoughts.
Texasgirl

The angst of the OW. Oh, it must be difficult to discover what some OW have about being the OW. <p>Her married lover, when confronted with the responsibilities from the OW that he shares with his W but escaped with an OW, decides to focus on the responsibilities at home with the W. <p>How horrible that he may even sever all contact with OW to focus on the W he chose as his life partner. The W he entered into a relationship with to share the burdens and joys of life with, not the OW he chose to play with as a distraction. My heart is breaking for these OW.

Texas Girl<p>I've always had a problem with the romaticized notion of being "in love" as opposed to loving someone through thick and thin. While I have been the lucky recipient of both in my marriage, I always knew the "in love" stuff was really nothing more than a crush. It was hot, it was fun, it was intense and made me feel wonderful. But it was just a preamble to real life and real love.<p>Even though "in love" feelings surrender to "love", the "in love" stuff still happens quite often in all our marraiges from time to time. To have it be all the time would be exhausting. It is a cyclical thing, just one of the peaks and valleys of love and commitment. <p>The 'love' thing is more mature and day to day, giving and receiving, being there for each other when the chips are down and the less glamorous aspects of life are hurled at you. It's there. It's always there for each person in the couple to draw from, for solace, companionship, someone to depend on and trust.<p>Real love is a choice to commit yourself to another human being...someone you have chosen to spend the rest of your life with. That's why we make these vows to include sickness as opposed to health, times of poverty as well as the joys of plenty, promising to forsake all others for as long as you both shall live. It is ordained by God for us to build a stronger and better society filled with families, strong and healthy to keep the momentum going.<p>I fear so much for our societal future. I see the lowering of standards and I worry for my kids. I worry for the world of children, especially OC's, that see their parents' self absorption and lack of decorum and dignity, for the beat goes on. I mourn the loss of innocence and commitment...I am devastated by the last two generations of men-children who behave like cruel and uncompromising adolescents.<p>I am in a state. I am going for a long walk. Later.<p>Catnip =^^=

Catnip, you are 100% right about the cycles of love. I learned about it in my H.S. Psychology class. Yes, I remember that far back. It talked of the "ebbs and flows" of romantic love in every normal relationship. I believe that there is actually a name for it but that I don't remember. I'm sure it can be found an any H.S Psych book.

tobemommy,<p> I am new to this board, but have found it very interesting, I am personally trying to figure out what to do with my marriage, and how to make my marriage work or figure out if it can work. I do understand your confusion and pain however, if you know for sure the wife is posting or visiting this site, I think it is not respecting the decision they made to work it out, because she will obviously recognize your post and this will upset the household. I do think everyone needs understanding and help, and wish you the best with your child and Hope things work out for you.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by BINthereDUNthat:
<strong><p>Your mind tells your heart who to love. It really IS pretty simple.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>That is a joke! If it were that simple, then we'd all be living simple lives and this site would not exist. Sorry but that is my opinion.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Willing_To_Work:
<strong>The angst of the OW. Oh, it must be difficult to discover what some OW have about being the OW. <p>Her married lover, when confronted with the responsibilities from the OW that he shares with his W but escaped with an OW, decides to focus on the responsibilities at home with the W. <p>How horrible that he may even sever all contact with OW to focus on the W he chose as his life partner. The W he entered into a relationship with to share the burdens and joys of life with, not the OW he chose to play with as a distraction. My heart is breaking for these OW.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>I don't think you are in reality. I was both the ws and ow. My lover and I didn't get involved to have someone to "play with as a distraction"! Of course all relationships are unique, but for us, we fought our feelings for a very, very long time. We made a choice to give in and our only regret was that we had met before we chose the wrong life partners. Don't glamorize marriage alone, the fact is all relationships are unique and people are not so alike that you can generalize as you have.
I think rather than mock a group of people, you need to learn empathy for all people. I feel badly for everyone involved in the sad circle here. I can see all the sides not just my own self serving one.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by want it back:
<strong>Catnip, you are 100% right about the cycles of love. I learned about it in my H.S. Psychology class. Yes, I remember that far back. It talked of the "ebbs and flows" of romantic love in every normal relationship. I believe that there is actually a name for it but that I don't remember. I'm sure it can be found an any H.S Psych book.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>The fact is that long term A's move beyond romatic love. The people here who honestly believe that A's only encompass romantic love either don't understand the nature of relationships or don't understand the vast and numerous drivers behind affairs. My 6 year A enabled me to learn about and experience every aspect of my lover. I know him just as well as I knew my H. And likewise. It was very good and at times not too good, just as ANY long term relationship is. The generalization here is naive.

Cmiranda<p>To come here and tell us we are "naive" or proclaim an opinion as "What a joke" are completely disrespectful judgments.<p>If you want everyone to to agree with you and not challenge or advise you with your assessments, go to gloryb where like minded people share your views.<p>Don't be such a snot.<p>Catnip =^^=

cMiranda:<p>I had promised not to get lured back into this thread, but...<p>Just tell the truth, to all involved. If your polygamist lifestyle is all that virtuous, it won't bother your family members who've been lied to (through omission) all these years to finally be told the truth. If you respect them, you'll do this. <p>End of post.

It appears that CMirandas lover has decided to return to his W and work on his marriage so I fail to see how this relationship could possibly have been as wonderful as described. At least not in his mind. It's sad that CM thinks the OM is doing it just to spare the feelings of the BSs. That may be what he wants CM to think, but it is sad that she actually believes him. It will take much longer for her to get her own marriage back on track while she still believes in the fairytale.