Angelia,
I will pray that this child is not your husband's. You are really getting a double whammy. Try to put your marriage first even while you are dealing with legal details. I also can tell you a little about FL. I was a child support worker there. Mobe is right on.

First, you got the letter from DOR because the ow is receiving public assistance. It may have just been for Medicaid, but she went. In the interview with the AFDC/Medicaid worker, they ask about paternity of the child(ren). A lot depends on if the worker's did their job correctly. It is very doubtful that she and her husband are together. If they were together, then they might qualify for some benefits but the issue of paternity would not have come up in the interview. Well, it would have come up and been passed by. Since they were married at the time of birth, the worker should have said oh well sorry husband may not be birth father but he is the legal father. The worker should have just glazed right by the issue.

Since it was pursued, either someone screwed up or ow and her husband are not living in the same house. The husband would have been named as father. Your husband may have also been named, but he would be considered second. The Dept of Child and Families (AFDC folks) turn this info over to Dept of Rev, (Child Support folks). They only want the ow to receive child support because that way she is eligible for less AFDC. The fact that child support is part of Dept of revenue should tell you that this dept does not care about the child or visitation. They are concerned about revenue. They will attempt to establish paternity for the child and then collect child support.

Her husband was considered the legal father since they were married at the time of birth. He was considered first. Her husband probably denied paternity, went through dna testing and has already been ruled out since you have papers. She may have named your husband initially or the workers may have come back to her and said well your husband's not the father so give us another name. Either way, here you are.

I also urge you to go to court with your husband. It will hurt really bad, but will help your healing too. It shows others and the both of you that you are in this whole mess together. He may have put you there, but you are in it together. (Note: Our court was held in judge's chambers. Only interested parties were allowed in. As the spouse I was not allowed to be in court and had no say. But when allowed to speak to judge, my husband mentioned me by name and told the judge that he was sorry for his actions and that we were united in this venture.) I hope you will be allowed in. If not, make sure your husband says "my wife and I" whenever possible.

When you go to court, it will be to establish paternity. The next court date should be to establish child support. The DOR worker will probably ask your husband to admit that he is the father. He should say no and let paternity testing be ordered by the court. If your husband is proved to be the father, he will be responsible to pay for the test. They will go back to court after the test and the judge will order child support amount according to result and ~ 21% of your husband's average income. It is not always a set amount, even though the law says so. Many things are up to the judge so make a good impression. Husband should show judge how remorseful he is for his actions and that he is not shirking financial duty to oc, but feels a need to consider current family. Have husband tell judge of any out of the ordinary bills or obligations you have. Sometimes this will help; sometimes not. Pray that you get a sympathetic judge.

Remember this is just about child support. This is just an attempt by the state to pay the ow less welfare. DOR courts do not work the same as family courts. It is JUST about money. This may be a very easy way to be financially responsible while maintaining no contact with oc. Going through DOR could be ideal for you since they won't even address paternal rights. But IF you and husband decide that you want ANY rights to this child, you must file for paternity, rights, whatever you want separately with the clerk of court. If so, do this soon and make it contingent on paternity testing.

The AFDC and child support case info is not public record unless it is entered with the clerk of court. Although case info is visible to any AFDC or child support worker across the state, they are not supposed to give you info about the case. For the part that has been entered with clerk of court, this is public record. Many of the FL courts are online. Or go to your county office and ask for cases involving ow. You should be able to see that dna testing was ordered and came back negative on her husband. It is in motion. The only way that this case will stop now is if ow gets off of public assistance (AFDC) very soon. Once the order for child support is made, it is a done deal. It is out of her hands since the state is just looking to be repaid for what they have given her.

Good luck and God bless. Here are some links that may help you:
http://www.internets.com/sflorida.htm
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes...;Search_String=&URL=Ch0061/Sec30.htm
http://sun6.dms.state.fl.us/dor/childsupport/
http://www.flcourts.org/

Aimee2: Thanks so much! I can't tell you how much information and light you have shed on this. About the 21% of the income....is that based on his hourly rate x 80 or is that based on his yearly income? Sometimes overtime is available and sometimes not.
Do you still think we need a lawyer?
You mention that this information is not public record unless it goes through clerk of court. If it doesn't go through clerk of court does that mean we have to physically write her a check monthly? I would almost rather it go through the court so it can be a garnishment that I don't have to deal with. Sounds stupid but I can't do that (at least not right now)

For the online court stuff do we just do a search based on her social or her name? I have both thanks to the paternity suit......
Also, will the name on the birth certificate change to my husbands? and if so, can she rename the child after him?
Our town only has two listings for our last name and one is his grandmother's and one is his aunt's. Our phone has always been unlisted. I don't want that either.
Are you saying that this is good it came from dor instead of the family afdc? I think that's right because we don't want visitation, custody, etc. right?
Husband says now that he doesn't want any part of child's life but i wonder if that too will change once the initial shock and turmoil are over.
And finally, if he is proven to be parent then can she make him be a parent in any way? can she take us to the family courts for anything?
Would you mind if I e-mailed you or would you prefer me to use the board? I really appreciate your help! Thanks, Angelia

here is a link to help you estimate your amount.
http://www.divorcelawinfo.com/states/fla/cal/FLCSC.html

keep in mind that these are guidelines only. the 21% is based on his average income during the past 8 weeks. if he is paid biweekly, get his last 4 paychecks and average. then multiply by 2.15 to get monthly amount.

as far as public record, i meant that the afdc and child support info is not public. anything that goes through court should be. DOR is going through the court. they have to in order to do it legally, but they have a different goal than most parents or attys who do this. they establish paternity just to get child support ordered. they are just about money. there's is a two step process. you are in step one. establishing paternity. your husband will DENY paternity. the judge will order testing and set a date for them both to go to the testing place. about two weeks later, you should get results. if it is positive, then dor will again take you to court to have child support ordered and enforced. and they will probably treat him like he is a really bad guy who walked away too. they don't run into situations like this very often. if it works this way, then the child support amount should be automatically taken from his check.

for the links i sent you, every county is different. and some are not online. usually you do a search with name and dob. that will only give you info about any court docs that have occurred. the dna testing with her husband, any crimes (murder, child abuse, bad check, etc) she has been charged with, any traffic violations, any liens against her, and the pending case against your husband.

i won't advise you not to get a lawyer, but i can tell you that since this is with dor they would only be advising you on how to lower your child support amount. this case is going to be pretty cut and dry. either he is or isn't father; then next court date you beg for mercy on amount that is paid. you might seek a free consultation or something for advice. i just personally don't see how an atty could help you in this particular situation, but that's just an opinion. now if it ever goes further...if you or ow pursue name change, visitation, etc by all means get an atty!

as for birth cert and name change and rights to child... this is why it may be easier on you that this is a dor case rather than one that ow has started on her own. this case is about nothing except money. they will not address any other issue, just is he the legal father and how much will he pay the state. if ow or you two want to pursue other things, then a different petition will have to be filed. the state is forcing someone to be financially responsible for this child. no one can force a parent to be involved in the child's life.

ow can take you to court at any point. she may try to change the name or bc or anything. she cannot force him to be a parent. your husband should never ignore a court date. that is his opportunity to put in some say for your family. if you and husband decide later on that you want to pursue visitation, etc you can. it may be a slower process or even supervised at first if he has not been in the child's life and then decides to step in, but you should concentrate on the marriage before you even think of that.

read harley principles to strengthen your marriage in this roller coaster ride.

Aimee: I was taking a look at that form and I guess they average overtime? Do you know? We do have an appointment with an attorney next week.

How do you feel about having custody of your husband's two oc? I think that takes a lot of guts and love and heart.

Today is one of those days that I could just kill him - or kick his behind out. Today, I feel like he deserves whatever he gets and that his punishment couldn't be enough to compensate how I feel. I'm sure that will change tomorrow - it seems to change like the wind. UGH!!!!!
I need a manual with step 1, step 2, and so on.....

BTW, how old is the oc?

Yes, overtime or any type of income for the past 8 week period is included. They should ask for the paystubs after the dna tests come back. So you will probably be looking at the 8 weeks between now and mid-January. It will depend a lot on how busy they are. Your atty should have a best guess with that and maybe some ideas on how to reduce the amount. (The attorneys that we talked to just wanted to postpone everything.)

I know without doubt that our 2oc are in a better place with us. We actually got them from protective services because they were taken from the mother's abusive home. We definitely helped the children. And we took away the pawns that the mother was using to get to my husband. She no longer has a hold over him and has not contacted us. I don't know how she could just walk away from her kids, but I am so so so thankful that we have had no contact from her.

Having these children in my home, calling me mommy, looking to me for guidance and love is good and bad. I can totally separate the kids from the affair. They are just regular kids. They can be fun. They can be frustrating. But sometimes they are a reminder of the pain from my husband's irresponsible, thoughtless, and selfish acts. I don't take my feelings out on them. They are just as much victims as me. But I do acknowledge the pain, and I am trying hard to move beyond that hurt and into healing.

It is a hard pain to let go of and I am really good at reminding my husband of all the pain he has caused. (That's a love buster! Don't do that!) But here we are. I know that God placed these children in our home for a reason. I am trying to do the best for them that I can. And finally now that things are calming down from affair and court and 2oc tossed into our home, hubby and I are trying to concentrate on our relationship. We finally get a chance to try to heal.

Your best hope would be that ow and her husband get back together and that he accepts the child as his own, knowing that it is not. That way, your husband can apologize to her husband and walk away. Maybe your husband would still want to be financially responsible if dna shows him as father. But if the husband steps in as father, your husband can release the child to grow up in a more "normal" two parent home and both of your marriages can heal more easily.

Aimee: Not sure how old oc is for sure...H says between 1 1/2 and 2. I have the feeling that her and her husband will never get back together. Not sure why she would put him on b.c. but that's her deal.
I believe you and Stacia are saints because I couldn't do that - have the oc in my home. I'd just have to walk away from that situation.
I actually encouraged my husband to move in with her and be a family. He and I have no children together just many years and debts. (as do all married folks). He said NO. Not what he wanted. He says it's been over a long time wtih the exception of money exchange. I don't know if that's true or not - don't know whether to believe him but so far makes sense. I honestly think he stopped paying her under the table because he wanted this out in the open - He has said a few times that he could have gone on with the private money exchange and she would have been happy but he was tired of the lies to me and tired of the whole situation. I'm not sure what to make of that.
I am just in a huge amount of pain - cry a lot - have mental pictures and I'm sure that all of us who are BS can share in that pain. So, I'm not sure how to forgive - not sure if years down the road he decides he wants to be in the oc's life that I would be able to accept that.
I am really angry that we are even in this situation I am angry that our family will have to suffer due to his cs payments to her. I am angry that he has taken away from our family - I am angry in general. So, there I am - pain and suffering out in the open - I just hate him for doing this. How do you build on that?

Angelia

angelia,
One min at a time, then an hour, day ,week etc.
It all takes time. Time for your h to prove himself time for you to believe any of it.
I'm so sorry you have to be another human going through this turmoil. Everything you are feeling is normal. I hated for a very long time mostly my h. I stumbled around for almost a yr before I found this site. I truly believe being able to come here and find people that understood my pain helped more then I can describe. I had so many awful feelings inside and was so relieved to see I was not some monster for feeling the way I did.
We have no contact oc is 3yrs old we both agreed that contact just wouldn’t work. I to think the ladies that can welcome the oc into there homes are some special people. I went with my h for anything to do with this mess it was hard but I think it would have been much harder for me to not have gone.
We showed ow or anyone to do with this situation that we where a couple that this wasn’t just some guy who got some girl pregnant. Nothing was made easy for her the looks on peoples faces pretty much said what they thought of her and she had to deal with it.
You hang in there your gonna be alright o.k.!
with love flowerseed

flowerseed: why didn't you leave? just curious. This is how I feel now. I don't have any more minutes, hours or days for someone who didn't love me enough or our marriage of 9 years enough to stay out of bed with another woman.
The bible says that we can leave this situation and I have to think that it's because God knows how painful this one is. The marriage bed is sacred and it's been violated.
It's only been 6 days now and I already see that my H is growing tired of me moping and not wanting to talk to him and when I do I am angry. And, you know what, I know you are remorseful but 6 days isn't enough for me to recover. SORRY it's not on your timetable buddy!
My H is already ready to be intimate again - UGH and GROSS but in his head this A has been over for years and it's all a matter of finances and dna tests. In his head he is remorseful, sorry, sorry to have caused me this pain, sorry to have put us in this situation and is ready to move on.
Our whole marriage he wasn't one to dwell on issues - just keep moving, just keep living and keep getting up each day and figuring out a way to make things work. Well, this one isn't going his way.
i don't mean to make him sound so awful - I'm sure in his head it's over and now I should just move on too but I just am not getting over it fasat enough.
I cannot imagine being in this state 6 months or even a year from now. I think that will kill both of us.
So, I feel somewhat pressured (mostly by myself) to make some sort of decision. He desperately wants me to stay and he desperately wants me to go on. I desperately want that too.
I know I can't do the contact thing and I wonder in my mind if I'm waiting to see what he'll do if he is determined to be the father. If he choses to have contact or even acts like he wants to be in child's life (and subsequently the ow's) then I know it's over and I am just trying to save myself more agony.
Again, please offer suggestions - please tell me your story - I love to hear them - I love to know that my feelings are not out there. Thanks!
Angelia

angelia I found my first post. What you feel is real and expected. Read all you can here and get into counseling asap. Hope when you read this you'll understand I was where you are now 2 years ago. I found this site about a week after d-day. It was Nov. 13 2000....This place is a Godsend. May God bless you.

gemini1
Member
Member # 8106

posted November 27, 2000 08:14 PM
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I just found out h had sex (not affair?)and ow called to say baby is on way. She called shortly after it ended.
H begs me to keep him. no dna. doesn't want kid or her.
She has 3 kids. we went out with her and h as recently as summer.

I'm so messed up. Saw my priest 2 x's. He went Sat. Wants us to counsel together. Not willing to end marriage after affair but cuuld never accept oc. NEVER.

Help! pain is incredible!!!!!

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Imagine....

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Posts: 1483 | Registered: Nov 2000 | IP: Logged

Did you stay with H? and if so, why? do you have to pay cs? I'm just p*ss*d off that we're in this mess.

Angelia,
What you are feeling is totally what all of us here of felt. No way can 6 days be enough to even begin to get over this crap. I think I carried on for mor like 2 1/2 yr. Im sure that probly wasnt the best thing to do but I was going to be sure this man had changed. Very very hard to believe again when you have been hurt so badly.

He put up with alot of angry nutty behavoir on my part. We ended up with lots of broken things before I found this site. I didnt care one bit at that time if he did leave.There where a lot of times I had wished he would. Its a very hard rollarcoaster ride the toughest I have incountered yet.

My h to is like you described yours to be hurry up its over. It didnt work that way it took me a long time and he stuck it out so for that I give him alott of credit.

Why didnt I just leave? Mainly because of at that time our 4yr old daughter. I have already torn my oldest kids apart by divorce.I couldnt do it to another child not after I have seen the damage that divorce causes. If there was any hope that we could fix things I was willing to try. I m pleased to say 4yrs later Im glad I did things are better then ever.

I found out h cheated by him telling me. He had been acting like a lunitic for about 6 months. I was sick of it and had told him I had had enough I wanted out. That was when he finally somewhat opened up.

I found out about oc 6 months later when ow called when her kid was 2 weeks old and told me. That hit me worse then anything, that he had not told me all there was to tell. I think thats why it took me so long to believe anything he said.He had quit his job soon after telling me he had cheated. Which was a good thing because this girl was from where he worked. He had it in his head that it wasnt his kid. DNA proved diffent and we had to start paying child support. He has seen the child one time and that was at the testing but I dont believe he even looked at him.

After I found out about the oc he opened up and finally came clean. We both agreed that we wanted no contact. This is now 4yrs sense this all began and I can say I like my life and I made it, we have learned how to be a team. A HAPPY FAMILY as my 7yr old would say. with love flowerseed

No I didn't leave my H. I said the same things you are saying now.
My H was apologetic from the day he told me. Not that it mattered at that time.

Your feelings are normal. You will be up and down. I went on antidepressants for a short while to help with those highs and lows.

He was in and out of our home 2 x's. Once on d-day...moved back home about a month later after we had counseling and decided to work through this.

2nd time was 3 months later. I felt he still was telling lies and simply told him to leave!

Back home within 6 weeks that time. Without my asking. H just said that he'd had enough and was ready to be "the H he should have been"

We had DNA We pay CS We pay health insurance.

Like Flowerseed, I ranted and raved all over the place at first, H just took it all. Then I found this sits and began to read. I searched my heart for what I wanted. I prayed and survived.

You will to.

The thing you need is time. Can't get that here, but you'll always have someone come aboard to let you know you are not crazy.

Hope it helped.
love
Debi

Aimee and Mobe: My husband really doesn't want me to go with him to court. He is convinced that he does not want to put me through the pain of seeing OW and her child.
I would like to be there to prove united front however I might be settig myself up for pure torture...

Your thoughts?

Even if the OW brought her child, I was told by mr."T"'s attorney that Judges frown on that. But on the other hand, I know from other's experiences that Judges do take families under consideration when the wife and hubby make a united front.

I was told by Mr.T's atty. not to go, she didn't want to be responsible if I stabbed ex-ow in the chest with a pencil....I wouldn't have done THAT.....noooooooooo not meeeeeeee...she may have wanted to stab me!!!!

LOL........

Twiisty

did your husband want you to go?
It looks like the postings from Aimee that this is pretty cut and dried...no allowances for family considerations - just child support. So, if that is the case and it doesn't matter then I'm only going for my own peace of mind and my own stance.
I would like to make a united front - both to ow (not that I need to do that since it's already out in the open and their A over with) but also to the courts but I just don't know since it's a department of revenue thing. They don't care if my H is really a decent guy or if he already has a family - they only want his $$$.
I looked on their website and I can't believe they do not take into account current family situation but that's the case. They don't care if he already has a wife and two kids - they just care that he fathered this one. If I could get a court order against him to pay child support to me (funny) then we could deduct that from the amount he has to pay her. Although if he's just going through life supporting his wife and two kids then that's not taken into account? how unfair.

Some people have done that. You might look into having this done to protect yourself and your children. Because it appears the courts do give a pretty hefty chunk to the OC. Ours was handled out of court. Initially, $267, then the OW ended up on welfare, and they intervene and upped it to $500 a mon for one child, the OC we had 5 we were supporting one income and 2 coming up for college.
Check and see, do what you must to protect your family even if you have to do a "faux divorce" as another person here has done. She volunteer that if she wishes.

Good luck and stay strong, it is hard, but you can do it.

Texasgirl

TX girl....so, do you pay the $500 a month? Any luck adjusting that?
Aimee: Any suggestions....for cs through DOR? Are they at all sympathetic to current family? Would an attorney help?

Angelina,
My h wanted me there. I can’t help but wonder and I may be totally wrong. Could he maybe not want to have to face the ow and you together at the same time.To me the first blow of finding out about the oc was the worse nothing after that seemed to compare. We only had to see ow at the hospital when they did the dna. It wasn’t that bad it gave me the chance to shake my head in disgust at her. Me an h sat right across from her when h was getting his test done the baby looked at me gave me a smile then puked all over his mother. All I could think of was thank you I agree. This could very well be the end of it for you as far as oc if the dna proves he is not the father then its all over your h wont have to go to court.

When the test was back the prosecuting attorney sent us a letter and said the test didnt rule him out as being the father and h could come in and sign a agreement to the amount the courts figured. I think it was called a stipulation. So we never went to procuiting attorneys office the little twit was not there just me and h and the lady handling the case. That was the hard part him having to agree that this was his child and giving the ow the right to rape h paycheck for the next 18 yrs.

I know Angelina its not fair at all it really burns me the way the system works.

<small>[ November 25, 2002, 08:29 PM: Message edited by: flowerseed ]</small>

Thanks for your response Flowerseed.
my H says he doesn't want me there because it's like 'stirring the fire'. He is unsure of what questions they will ask him and her and he doesn't want me subjected to sordid details. He says he has seen me upset for a week now and our court date is 12/30. He thinks I will be able to heal some in the next 4 weeks only to have it re-stirred on court date.
He keeps reiiterating that it's been over for a long time and he is not the least bit interested in her only financial obligation if necesary. He said he didn't want to be part of oc's life nor hers. We have talked about all sorts of possibilities and he doesn't want to be or play daddy. We talked about signing away rights and he said "I don't want any rights". I willpay what I have to and that's it.

I actually understand his not wanting me there. I also partly don't want to be there - I feel like I should but the truth is that I'm already killing myself with details and I wonder if I can get the tape in my head to stop playing if I leave it be.

He slept with her - I can't take that back nor can he.

I don't understand why and through my readings on this board have come to learn that I never will understand why. He made a horrible choice in sleeping with her - he made a horrible choice during their whole A - no matter if it lasted one day or 3 months.

We (I) can only choose to move forward. I think I read somewhere on this board that Harleys don't think you should spend a lot of time rehashing old wounds - but more time figuring out how to move forward. If I got that wrong someone please tell me.
So, from here I either deal with my stages of grief (and let my WH help me deal with those stages) and make decisions myself (love IS a decision) to move forward or be stuck in the preverbial cycle of 'why, when, how could you" when that will only make me feel like the gerbil on the wheel.

I don't need to be there to show ow a united front because I don't think she cares and from our conversations this week I don't think he cares either. He is extremely remorseful - has accepted full responsibility - even though I play a part in the Marriage being bad he doesn't even use that as an excuse. He says ' I screwed up" and it's all my fault and I AM SORRY!

I do however think I should be there when money is discussed because that will affect our family. whatever monetary punishment they put for him affects all of us. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />
so, here I am - please offer advice. I am today at day 7 of knowing. I feel like telling my H ' happy anniversary' we have made it through one week.
we both know that it's going to be like an alcoholic...one day at a time. My grandmother was an alcoholic so I repeat that serenity prayer daily - I have prayed daily - asking God to give me wisdom and to give me peace. Maybe my peace would come in not being there. I am pretty nosey and maybe I should let my H handle this - he got us into it so maybe I should just step back.....
Thoughts? please? I appreciate them and this board is absolutely invaluable. You people are great - wonderful - patient - kind - and accepting. Thank you.

Yes, we pay $500 a mos for child support for OC. I keep hoping that one day we will hear the OW is married and her H wants to adopt the OC. That would end our obligation. but, it still has not happend. We never went to court like I said. But WE went to see a lawyer together to see what needed to be done. I was fully informed. That's what he needs to do now. You must be kept aware of everything done in this area.
It was a rude nasty surprise to learn of his A, you don't want anymore surprises like that. So he shouldn't hold back anything now.
I learned first of the OW. We had worked that thru and then I learned of OC 11mos after learning of the OW. It was a major setback.