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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by gardenbunny:
<strong>I personally think LynnG's posts are great.
Needtomoveon, you are a piece of work. (And that's not a compliment.)
Why is it wrong for a BS to legally protect herself and her children? Her family was here FIRST!!!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Garden show me where I ever said it was wrong for ANYBODY to protect themselves and I'll say I'm sorry. SHOW ME that your really reading the post instead of seeing what you want in it.
I have no problem with anyone protecting themself.
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I think Lynn did exactly what she came here to do, ruffle everyones feathers, probably doesnt have a story, just getting her thrills. Best to ignore, which is hard for me, if I let myself I would have a lot to say, but doesnt seem she is really worth it or here to really help anyone, especially herself
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Twiisty said... "I personally have found these posts refreshing and I'll probably be flamed for saying so. I don't see the bitterness and anger in these posts and I've read." Flamed? Not by me, you wouldn't. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I agree with you completely. I see LynnG as a strong poster and with a sincere desire to empower those that have been crumbled to knees in despair. I don't understand why some find knowledge, strength and assertiveness in women so threatening. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
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i think what is busting some chops here is attitude. lynn has posted some things that actually make sense. a good attorney is a must in MOST cases. if for no other reason then to make sure you are aware of all the legal complications that these complex A's bring about.
the facts about ow's feelings don't matter is also valid when put into the right context. no person on any side of these situations should be calling the shots of another.
ow's have all the rights to decide wther or not to have the baby or not. om at this point needs to deal with that decision. that is the risk he took. this is what is best for her and everyone else needs to deal with it.
ow also has the right to seek reasonable cs for oc. result of risk taken. this is what is best for her and everyone else needs to deal with it.
om HAS the right to reasonable visitation should he choose. in most cases that is the risk OW took seeking cs. that does NOT give ow the right to run om's life or make demands like "i don't want your w around oc". that is the result of seeking cs. this is what is best fir HIM and everyone else needs to deal with it.
om also has the right of nc wether he pays cs or not. that is also the risk ow took by having her oc. she knew full well she may be a single mom. this is what is best for him and everyone else needs to deal with it.
the part about hiding assets. ok change the house to bs name, switch the names on the car titles (doesn't really matter as most are owned by the bank anyway), whatever. the fact remains that there is a child and the father (in most cases) needs to be financialy responsible if nothing else.
thus the need for a good attorney that will seek cs on the dad's earning potential. who cares if a doctor quits and takes a job at mcdonalds. a sharp lawyer seeks tax forms from previous years and cs based on his earning potential.
if he quits his ob and remains unemployeed (can't squeeze blood from a turnip). his cs obligation is still there and his arrears will grow to the point he ends up in jail. if he remains narried a good attorney proves the quick-deed tactic and leans everything anyway.
also the reality is there is a child whose mom and dad owe it (NOT the ow) the most they can provide. we need to stop punishing the oc for our dislike for the ow, mm, whoever.
i think what lynn is saying is take control of YOUR life and let others worry about themselves.
for me if om doesn't like cs, tuff. for him if i don't like his visitation, tuff. that's the way it is we both need to deal with it.
the point is that it is a crappy deal all around but lets make the most of them.
<small>[ September 24, 2003, 08:51 AM: Message edited by: pops ]</small>
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Very well said Pops. Very well said. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> no person on any side of these situations should be calling the shots of another. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is what I mean by saying that people need to act like an adult. I think the main thing we all need to do is comunicate. And in this situation just about everyone needs to bend on somepoint in this rotten situation.
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Pops you summed it up quite well. None of us may like the situation we are in, but it's just the way it is and deal with it.
Thank YOu
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Deleted. Duplicate post.
<small>[ September 24, 2003, 04:04 PM: Message edited by: heavenlybody26 ]</small>
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Pops said: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> also the reality is there is a child whose mom and dad owe it (NOT the ow) the most they can provide. we need to stop punishing the oc for our dislike for the ow, mm, whoever. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Amen to that! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> love, heavenly
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llynn,,,,,
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$69.00 a week? Good deal. Had we not taken legal action, we would be paying close to that per day.
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i don't mean to pry into your finances with this.
i don't know where you live and what ow's finaces are either and don't care.
but at $69 per wk = about $300 per month. $69 per day = about $2000 per month. do you honestly feel that $300 per month is even 1/2 of what it costs to raise a child in todays economy?
i am not saying that you owe the ow anything here. but your h does owe his c financial support.
like it or not your h's oc deserves the same life style as his other c's. it is still his child.
like it or not after that child ws born your h started working to provide for your chilren plus one.
you may think and tell yourself that you are all righteous and have saved your family's assets. but the reality is that anything that your husband has acquired since the oc birth is partly due that child. maybe it is only a portion of your h's 1/2 of what he has gained. anything other then the protection of your 1/2 of the property shared between the two of you is mearly being stolen from a child. congradulations on your success in that area.
you should feel fortunate and pray that oc is either niave (sp?) or above seeking a GOOD attorney and holding up any inheritence in court should God forbid anything happen to your husband.
<small>[ September 24, 2003, 05:47 PM: Message edited by: pops ]</small>
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I have to say something.
Many are saying the WS owes the child the same lifestyle for OC as his other children.
I don't agree. My children have the lifestyle they have because of the education, profession, and workload I do to provide for them in a certain manner. Even when H was here, our children were provided for based on the effort, education, and earning potential my H and I have.
In OC's case, the OC deserves the balance of what OW and WS earns, not necessarily the same amount together as what my H and myself earn to provide a family for our children.
IN our case, we were together a long time and well established monetarily before having kids.WE planned it that way. My H was in the military for a while and we both decided that we would not have children while he faced long deployments and would be an absentee Dad. It was not what we wanted to offer any of our children.
We saved, lived frugally, and bought modest homes.
When we felt secure enough, we had kids.
In Ow's case, when she got pregnant, she could not afford caring for herself without the oC. She was recently divorced, unable to buy a home, not even able to rent a place. She rented a room in someone's home, because that is all she could afford.
She did not worry if she could not provide for child, because at first, all she wanted was a child. She was in late 30's, had no kids, and thought her life of having kids was passing her by. She wanted the child at any cost.
All I know, is that her child would have been provided well had the child been put up for adoption, but because the OW did not want to do that-- and did not believe in birth control due to religious reasons but participating in an A was o.k-- she decided to raise the child herself, without any thought to how I would feel, my kids would feel, etc.
So now she gets over 1000 per month for CS for her child, plus half of day care, and medical insurance. She works full time and has child in day care for very long hours each day. And this is good for child?
And I get less CS for my kids now, because she filed first.And I am driving around a 11 year old car, while this year she bought a new car with a personalized license plate of her child's name. Somehow this doesn't seem equitable to me.
JMHO>
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<<like it or not your h's oc deserves the same life style as his other c's. it is still his child. >> Well, in our case, the OC lives better than our children do. Plus she has a loving step-father who is home more than Mr."T" is home for the children of the home. Mr."T" has to work more hours now to pay for his financial obligation. Is it oc's fault? NO....nor is it mine or my children's...but when a court doesn't consider ALL the children of the marriage and only counts one, that isn't fair. I'm not going into it...we did the right thing, we filed for DNA, got the results, got the formula figured out for money and health care and even with our health insurance, OC is eligible for state insurance! (They don't count step-father's income) I could go on and on...but truth be told, she is living better than my own children and I'm taking my ex-husband to court to get more CS for my kids. What strikes me as ironic is we've never once tried to hide the fact that we have to pay Child support for oc. we've never hid assets or etc...but my ex-husband is doing all the despictable things that the OW's complain that their ex-mm's are doing.... Yes, my husband has "made his bed and has to lie in it..."(no sordid pun intended here) but where does it say that OC has to do EVERYTHING that my children do? One of the first things I've learned as a hearing impaired person is this... LIFE AIN'T FAIR. There is no FAIR about this. There is no fair about anything. The world doesn't care that I'm deaf...I have to make the best I can to the best of my ability....I do not expect to be equal because all of us are different. There is no FAIR in the school yard...There is no FAIR in the workplace.... I shake my head in wonder at people now-a-days that think everything should be FAIR.... LIFE AIN'T FAIR and is no respectors of persons... Some things just can't be equal no matter how hard you try to legislate etc. I still stand by actions have consequences and we are paying for ours. our ex-ow admitted to us she is paying hers. If we wanted it to be fair then, as an old argument of mine in the past used to be.... Well, then....why don't I get a stud fee from ex-ow for the time taken away from me and my children? But you see....LIFE AIN'T FAIR..... I make the best of it. I've learned to accept my lot and I do the best I can. I won't get into my extenuating circumstances but it could have been better had someone like Lynn posted when I was a newbie. But our OC was already 18 months old when I found out she existed....but once everything was out in the open, I did hire an attorney and did my best to do what I could. (Which the attorney told me was not much that late into the situation....see, life ain't fair! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) I don't see how OC and COM can be treated equally...I don't even treat my own children equally...I love all their strengths and weaknesses differently and depending on the age, wisdom and maturity of the child, we award priveledges accordingly....can't do that with OC... Oh well....I'm rambling......at least I can tell y'all that I'm a card carrying member of the.... LIFE AIN'T FAIR Club.... *sigh*...I thought I had a point to make in there someplace... Oh well, I may not agree with what all y'all say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it, please extend the same courtesy to others... Twiisty
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unhapptwife, twisty & others,,,,,,, i am sorry that i did not explain myself more clearly.
uh,, i agree with you and my statements were regarding the fathers assets only. in my own case my oldest son deserved a portion of everything that i earned after his birth. what fh earned should not have been considered into the equation.
twisty,, i agree with you also. i said in the past and still agree that ALL children involved should be considered in any cs equation. our cs system needs a major overhaul for sure.
that is why i said that oc deserves a PORTION of wh 1/2 of any assets.
<small>[ September 24, 2003, 10:00 PM: Message edited by: pops ]</small>
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No prob, Pops....
the latest threads here have given alot of interesting reading to me the past few days...
I found it interesting to say the least...
What really stinks to me is that no one wins in this unnatural situation...we all suffer in some form or fashion...OW/OC/WS/BS/COM's....
I can't believe that Grace will be almost two soon! (In a few months) doesn't the time seem to have flown around here????
Sheesh!
Twiisty
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Amen,twisty. I could not agree more. Life is unfair, and this whole situation for everyone is lousy and awful. That is why it shouldn't happen, and OW shouldn't think because the legal system supports CS for child that that makes the situaion normal or o.k. It is awful for all.
And pops, yes, I sort of see your point. But I think OC in my case, if the child is to get anything, should get what H wants of his earnings after I found out about OC-- not since birth. That was about a year after birth. My H earned little what with him paying all our expenses and paying CS for OC during the years after I learned of A and oC. He has nothing to give left.
Or save.
I will save my money for my kids and that is that.
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by twiisty:
<strong><<like it or not your h's oc deserves the same life style as his other c's. it is still his child. >>
Well, in our case, the OC lives better than our children do. Plus she has a loving step-father who is home </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I just want to interject something in here - I have NO IDEA what lifestyle xMM lives in, nor do I care. I don't care what he does, where he does it, who he does it with. I'm beyond wondering "what's he doing now" or "did THEY go on vacation?". I do remember that he was SO proud of the fact that he had the biggest house in his town. Those are things that matter to HIM. I probably have the smallest in MY town. LOL But to me - providing a stable, loving home to my child is more important. Not sure if I'm actually making a point or not, but some people get caught up in the whole if they have that, I want that scenario. I don't care what he has. He can live his life, I'm living mine.
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Joshmom wrote: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I probably have the smallest in MY town. LOL But to me - providing a stable, loving home to my child is more important. Not sure if I'm actually making a point or not, but some people get caught up in the whole if they have that, I want that scenario. I don't care what he has. He can live his life, I'm living mine. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have the smallest house in town too! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I agree with you, providing a stable, loving home to all of our children is important. The only reason I know what's going on with OC is that ex-ow and I e-mail each other briefly about CS issues/medical stuff and the youngest babies we've both had...she even said she couldn't figure out how I do it with five kids! What can I say? I'm living in a shoe!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> But because we e-mail doesn't make us shopping or bar-b-que buddies. Her H is OC's daddy in every sense of the word and she knows that it isn't me that keeping Mr."T" from OC. She accepts that as how it is because she told me she knew Mr."T" was married. But, I understood what you were saying JM...in your situation, you've moved on and don't care what your X-MM has...Mr."T"'s ex-ow and we have moved on and we provide financially for the child and that's that. There is some talk of name change in the horizon, so that OC will have Step-dad's last name...that could be a step into a larger world for them...we shall see... Above all, from all that I've read over the last three years or so is this.... We all love our children. We all would die for our children. OUR Children...in a situation like this, I think our survival instincts kick in and we want to watch out for "me and ours" despite what side of the fence we are in...it's a natural reaction of a mother for her children.... I don't think ow's and bs's will ever fully agree because we all think our own child/children deserve the best in the world and our own children are the cutest anyways! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> I know mine are! *blows raspberries to everyone!* <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Hugs to EVERYBODY ON THIS BOARD.... Twiisty
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I agree AND disagree with some things said here....but that's not relevant. My point throughout has been "minimize the damage in order to let the recovery start". If one or all the parties involved are going after each other, then when does the healing start? The wounds are being kept open and raw. I am far from disagreeing that good, sound legal advice is critical. It's not WHAT you do, but HOW you do it. The way I'm reading some of Lynn's posts (and this could be because I'm mommy to OC) is "too bad, so sad, live with it because YOU just DON'T matter....YOUR child does NOT matter, and I will do whatever I can to make sure he gets as little as possible". I never asked for the keys to the house or a brand new car. I never asked for an unreasonable amount of money. As a matter of fact, I never specified what would constitute support at all. xMM and his W were the ones who insisted on being and acting responsibly towards Jonas. I let them take the lead. xMM's W was the one who insisted that my son was also her H's son. If she loved her H, then how could she not do right by his child....regardless of how he came to be. She was determined that the mistakes of the adults would not trickle down to the child(ren). As hard as it could have turned out to be, we were NOT going to act like bickering children, fighting over every penny.
Not all of you know my story, but many of you do. I think a good portion of you trust that I am not the proverbial evil OW. Please, remember that Jonas is one of the OC you all talk of. He's a breathing, living little being...not just an acronym on this board. He's a 2 year old little boy with curly brown hair and huge brown eyes. He's quick with a smile and just as quick to cuddle and hug. He doesn't understand the anger or the betrayal that occurred. He only knows that he is loved, and is overflowing with his eagerness to share his love...in a child's way.
Ok, I'm going to stop because these threads are so, so sad. I'm picturing my little boy's face and it's actually making me cry to think that anyone could disregard him and think he did not matter. As stubborn, hard-headed, and "tough" as I like to think I am, these posts have really gotten to me today.
I wish you all the best.
OB1
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Keep up the good work Lynn.
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<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> sthat's all folks you picked and chose did
not take it in the context it was written..
<small>[ September 28, 2003, 10:00 PM: Message edited by: SadEyes ]</small>
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by SadEyes:
<strong>unhappy wife
..I don't think she has any claims at all and what she gets for the child should be till 18 with no rights to anything..else..he is what you call a [censored]..
in the old days bible days she would of been stoned to death ...and the child would have died with her..
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Just tell me you did not say this. OMG!!!! The whole post was pretty out there, but I only quoted this much. NO CHILD IS A [censored]. The child would of died with her? Is that what you want to see is the women and child dieing? Stoned to death for having sex with your husband? WOW
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