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#823394 10/20/03 09:09 AM
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i just wanted to know if this seems like i am being to sensative.

this weekend om had grace for a visit. he was supposed to bring her back at 6 but he had to work so he was bringing her back at 4:30.

fh and i were with our 2 youngest girls. whne fh got off the phone with om she asked me for .75 cents so that the om could use the toll road to get back to work because he had no change. now i don't have a problem helping people out but why did that bother me.

we have been the recipient of a very generous gift (although fh is having a real problem excepting it) from those here at mb's. so why did i find her offering him just .75 cents so wrong. there was no outburst of rage or breaking down crying just an uneasy feeling inside. the toll booths have change machines for crying out loud.

at first i started to give her the change. then hesitated when i found out what it was for. then as she said "fine, that's ok" and started digging in her purse for it i just gave her the .75.

is it possible for her to have a strickly business relationship with the om? no talks of work or doing little favors (.75). just simply hello grace is sick, tired, whatever.

#823395 10/21/03 12:17 AM
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Pops,

This would bother me as well. I don't see how you have accepted your wife having any contact with OM, on phone or otherwise.

As I see it, the OP is not a friend of mine, nor should the OP continue to be a friend of your wife's. Continuing to do friendly things for OP smacks of disrespecting you as if the OM is still important to your wife.

I don't think you are being too sensitive-and let the OM get his own 75 cents-it is his problem, not yours or your wife's.

#823396 10/20/03 02:45 PM
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pops,
You have been so accomodating to FH and OM. Far more than most here would be comfortable with.

You probably felt upset at the chump change because it seems FH still cares too much what OM does. It should only matter he returns Grace and leaves.... not expect anything from FH....NOTHING!

You, if you can, should be the go-between with any conversations on behalf of Grace. Period.

The small everyday chit-chat is not condusive to making you feel safe. They were lovers in the past. They sould never be talking together as friends for Grace or not.

Can you imagine if it were us?

The problem with pregnancy and affairs is just what you are writing about in my opinion. When the op is brought into the picture it is so very hard to see the WS as contrite, they continue to "get what they want" and the BS may well suffer a much longer time with OP present and accounted for for such a long time.

A few here have OP still in the picture and it seems to always cause one problem or another.

You two seriously need to get a POJA into place.

Maybe if FH accepts the session, you guys can begin to work on all the things necessary to a healthy marriage.

FH never answered me a while back when I posted to her. She probably thought "who the heck is SHE telling me what to do"

I am also a BS, and FH you have to give in order to receive. pops has done far more than most and it would be nice to see you two working toward a happier home life.

Give each other at least an hour later on to just talk honestly with no outbursts.

Actually hear one another.

No pops, you aren't wrong to feel a little miffed at that money request, not at all.

Debi

#823397 10/20/03 03:38 PM
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pops, I agree with the above statements.

I don't feel it as a very good example for the child, being brought up in "one big, happy family". Will she think it's OK to make mistakes and that when she grows up, if it happens to her, this is the way to go?

Your marriage has to come first. You should be the ONLY contact for visitation with OM. You have to have a chance to heal.

I wonder how long the OM would continue visitation, if he doesn't get to see or talk to your wife.

These are just some of my thoughts.

ember

#823398 10/20/03 03:38 PM
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pops, I agree with the above statements.

I don't feel it as a very good example for the child, being brought up in "one big, happy family". Will she think it's OK to make mistakes and that when she grows up, if it happens to her, this is the way to go?

Your marriage has to come first. You should be the ONLY contact for visitation with OM. You have to have a chance to heal.

I wonder how long the OM would continue visitation, if he doesn't get to see or talk to your wife.

These are just some of my thoughts.

ember

#823399 10/20/03 06:07 PM
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i have offered to be the go between with the om. i have not made a big deal about it. i know om feels that it is between him and fh. the kids or myself do most of the exchanges on visitation days. but all other verbal communcation is between om and fh on her cell phone.

maybe by not putting my foot down before this i have been the victim of my own indifference.

fh thought that i would be to negative with om at first. now she says that she doesn't want grace to see any malcontent between them. meaning that she wants things to go smooth for grace.

maybe it's time for fh to stop excepting his calls and force him to talk with me if he needs to change times or anything.

<small>[ October 20, 2003, 06:10 PM: Message edited by: pops ]</small>

#823400 10/20/03 06:14 PM
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Pops,

I am sorry. I do think this whole situation stinks. Your wife doesn't want your daughter to see discontent between you both and OM? What is she thinking? There is discontent.What she and OM did was wrong-how is pretending it isn't so good for Grace? My H must feel the same way-he talks with OW and sees nothing wrong with doing that. She also wants them to be friends.So, for sake of OC, they are buddies, my H and I are separated and not talking, and she gets invited to his house, they spend days together, I suspect he is still sleeping with her, and he and I are done.Now, how is this good?

I think she should have no phone calls with him ever, and maybe if he didn't, he wouldn't pull this kind of krap.

Is OM married, by the way? Would love to know what his wife thinks of this.

#823401 10/20/03 07:46 PM
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I guess i am sorry that i dont agree with anyone, and you probably all think i am wrong. om had grace and he had asked if it would be all right to return her early cause he had to work that evening, i was happy to have grace back sooner. well in between soccer games we (pops and i) decided to take the girls out for a early dinner before our last soccer game at 5:30. I called om to ask if he could bring grace to the restaurant, instead of our house, which he agreed to do, even though it was out of his way, in the other direction, he could have said no and we would have had to stay home until grace was returned, but pops said to have him bring her to the restaurant. so on the way i guess he thought it would be faster back to take the toll road and didnt have the change, to me big deal 75cents, i have given strangers more. i am not talking to him on the phone alot, very rarely unless we need to change plans or he does. pops does almost all of the giving and receiving with my blessings. and i dont see anything wrong with keeping the peace for all, i saw an awful angry situation for years between pops and his ex girlfriend over their son, and how it efected him and his life. i will not have that for my daughter or my children. they know everything about the situation, all questions are answered as they come up, and it was never told to them that what i did was good or right. but grace is not going to feel this weight over her head, like she cant be happy to love both her families. no we are not best friends, we are parents, and we have minimum contact with each other, but i am not a hateful person, just a person that has made some terrible choices that have deeply hurt people i love, and i am doing the best i can to heal the pain. and i do believe once in a while we need to talk about grace or the plans for her visits. i have been trying hard, i have changed my life, and i am here to take care of and love my family and husband. the problem with this site is you dont see both sides, one person may sound like a saint, but no one is, we all have problems to deal with, we all say and make choices that might not be for the best, but if we stand back we try to change and do right, and thats what ive been doing. my en are not always met, and either are pops, but i think we are working on it, neither one of us are going to miraculously (is that a word?) change overnight, but we (as i was saying) are doing our best.

#823402 10/20/03 08:21 PM
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No, .75 is not a big deal of money to be concerned about. But the $$ is not the issue. The big issue is how pops was feeling. That's what probably should matter most.

It sounds like fh cares more about the baby's feelings rather than pop's and right now, grace is not feeling any pressure. She's just a baby!

We should pay attention to our spouse's feelings! Don't dismiss them! If .75 was a big deal to him, then it IS a big deal... Just food for thought...

There is no right or wrong, it's the individual perceptions and feelings that make the reality.

#823403 10/20/03 08:34 PM
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so what your saying the only person that matters is pops, not me , not grace , not the family.... no matter what he will always be right?? and i should do what ever he feels??? and what i feel should be suppressed, and my daughter should be raised with us constantly reminding her about how she came about, cause we dont want her to follow in her mothers footsteps, it doesnt matter if pops wont go to the doctor, cause he doesnt feel good, and it worries me, ill just up the life insurance, it doesnt matter about the state of our finances or the disarray of our home or anything else that lays heavely on my mind, because he just doesnt have time to deal with it, i should just be in the background living life as is told to me, i know none of this makes sense i am just rambling, but i am just so fed up with the way everyone picks one little thing like 75cents, and not look at the whole picture that i wrote, did pops tell you i didnt have to give the money if he didnt want to, no, of course not, cause i am the ****ty one, and i never look like i am ever doing anything right or even trying, cause i am seen through the eyes of what you want to see and i will never be good enough or do enough....etc.......i am tired

#823404 10/20/03 08:39 PM
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oh yeah, i never wanted om in our lives, i know the reasons he was included for financial for pops, but i was ready to send him off into oblivion, i was not the one that chose to include him in our lives forever, yes i chose the beginning, but we could have ended it, and he would have stayed away--i know...so dont judge me cause i talk to him about my daughter..hello we are in the real world, and i am sorry i am a little po-ed at the moment---im tired of being the bad guy...lets hear about his angelic life....

#823405 10/20/03 08:43 PM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"the problem with this site is you don't see both sides"</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And WHO pray tell, is responsible in bringing your side of the story? and if we get only one side, whose fault is it?

#823406 10/20/03 09:05 PM
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you know if i had had a choice i would never of wanted pops son in our lives, i didnt want to be around his gf for the rest of our lives, i was jealous that another woman gave him his first child, and i would never ever be able to do that, it was gone, she wanted cs, i would have been happy for nc, but he chose otherwise with no consult with me, i never had choices either, so i loved him and went with what ever he decided, we had years of hell from that woman, and i have told my children never get involved with anyone with children, all the baggage that comes with it. and to reply to it being my fault for not hearing both sides, it doesnt matter no one listens, no one cares, i will always be in the wrong, so i will deal with it. that is the life i have dealt for myself and i am sorry that i have vented here, bad day , my head hurts , my heart aches and i am not doing well. so i apologize to everyone. this doesnt help me or you...sorry

#823407 10/20/03 09:20 PM
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Fullhouse,
It certainly DOES matter that pops doesn't see a doctor to ease both your minds after what happened to him a short while ago.

C'mon pops, she's lookin out for you there man.

As far as the disarray of the house....We have it too...our son wife and 18mo old granddaughter live with us...toys EVERYWHERE....messy handprints 2 feet high everywhere...pieces of bananna and cookie on our mirrors and windows... ha ha it's a blessing...what would we do with all that extra time?

Wish they were still here and when they will call next I guess.

But Fullhouse you miss the point completely.

If pops feels bad about that 75 cents then so be it, It is the willingness of you worrying about om...get it?

He would have no qualms over giving it to a stranger.

Om is not a stranger.

It's a given that you would have let om go off to where ever and pops wanted cs. He opened that door against your will.

You still can't bow to om's needs by feeling anything for him or how he went out of his way to return Grace. I also wonder about his wife.... Have you ever talked to her? Maybe that's another family ruined because you guys want a BABY to feel good about her future self.

So do the counsel session and maybe learn some tools to get started on a healthier life together.

As far as Grace goes...it is truly adult wishes that think she'll feel normal and wanted because you all act civil.

Bull!

I felt normal in a home without going around between two families. Who and what will she claim as her own?

If school kids find out when she's older do you think they will think she has the best of two worlds? Do you honestly think Grace will think that or be more confused? Or talked about behind her back or worse yet to her face.

I'd bet she'll wish she were her brother or sister from you and pops.... just my opinion.

She's going to rebel over holidays and who to spend them with... when she's older.

Maybe she'll pick sides...who knows? I've seen it with my divorced friends who's kids have been through the visitation thing. They pick sides.

My friends daughter is getting married in December and chose her stepdad to walk her down the aisle...guess what? Bio dad who left Mom to raise kids while he affaired his way to another marriage is angry at his daughter and there are hard feelings all over the place! And that is between formerly married adults!

You both need to reconsider what you are doing to not only Grace but each other...

Now pull together and get the guidance that can give you a jump start on filling EM's and do what you need to for YOURSELVES no one else can matter till you two get it together.

Grace, OM, all others must stay clear of your decisions made together....

I'm done now. No hard feelings fullhouse... pops, she has needs too.

love and prayers,
debi

#823408 10/20/03 09:30 PM
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Fullhouse you did know of pops gf's child and if you could deal or not... Grace was a complete surprise to pops and he had to deal with her or lose you and his whole family.

It is different!

However he should have consulted how you felt first...

If you were not yet married and he did things before you came around it is not his fault.

If you were there and he disregarded your feelings for his own ignoring you...well it's a ripe ground for an affair after years of unmet needs... still doesn't excuse it but was a cry for help as I'm sure you wish you could do it over again the right way. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

love
Debi

#823409 10/20/03 09:43 PM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">i have told my children never get involved with anyone with children, all the baggage that comes with it.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">With that kind of reasoning then you would also have to tell your children to dump a H or W who has an OC, wouldn't you?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">and to reply to it being my fault for not hearing both sides, it doesnt matter no one listens, no one cares, i will always be in the wrong, so i will deal with it.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm listening, I care.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">that is the life i have dealt for myself and i am sorry that i have vented here, bad day , my head hurts , my heart aches and i am not doing well. so i apologize to everyone. this doesnt help me or you...sorry </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hey don't be sorry for venting this is an excellent place to vent your frustrations. Besides better to do it here and to us than at home and to pops.

#823410 10/20/03 10:57 PM
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I really feel that FH is being attacked unfairly. Once she gave the background that she had XOM drop Grace off at a differant location than normal...75 cents would be worth it to me to keep the peace. The road goes both ways. If Fh and pops need grace back early to go on a trip or whatever the XOM could make life miserable also. I think it is best to try to keep the peace. If pops was feeling a little uncomfortable with the situation then he needs to bring it up to FH later and in such a manner where it doesn't make FH defensive and I am sure FH would have explained her side of it.
Fh stopped posting before on this board (guessing she felt bashed before?) so I think we should give her a little slack.

#823411 10/20/03 11:20 PM
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Pops, FH,

I have one regret. I didn't post to Pops when this thread started. You see Pops I do think you are wrong. But I also sense you two are fussing over something when the issue is entirely something else.

FH step back for a second. Do you think the 0.75 is really the issue?? I don't. Do you think the fact that OM went out of his W to deliver Grace is the issue?? I don't. Do you think the fact that he needed change is the issue? I don't.

Pops could have offered to get change for a buck if OM needed .075, but he didn't. OM could have gotten change at the toll booth as Pops said, but he didn't. OM could have insisted on delivering Grace to your home but he didn't.

So what has Pop's knickers in a bunch?? That is the question you should have asked Pops. You KNOW it wasn't the 0.75. It was some sort of a trigger. FH the trigger didn't have anything to do with you directly, but guessing from the conversation here, it was OM talking to you on the cell phone. It could be something else.

It seems to me FH that when Pops sort of "pops" a cork, the first thing you should ask him is: "What is triggering you Pops?" Talk to me and let me know. THEN the two of you address the issue, or just smile at him and tell him you love him. Men are a sucker for that you know. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Pops, I think you also need to be honest with yourself and FH at these times. Something got to you didn't it? You need to stop and think about it and tell FH when you feel triggered and figure out what it is. Sometimes you won't know. Perhaps you two need to talk about these things and decide on a protocol for addressing these issues.

Now be honest, it wasn't the lousy 0.75 was it??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Come on, fess up.

One last thing Pops, FH's comment about you taking care of your health reminds me of a joke which really isn't funny but I will repeat it because there is a message in it you need to think about.

It goes like this.

Why do men die before women do?

Ans: Because they want to.

Just a million laughs. If you are not taking care of your health there is a reason for that as well. Is it because you don't care if you live or die right now?? Are you not sure that FH really cares if you live or die? Is it that this whole thing has gotten to you far more than you realize or are willing to admit?? Pops, do you need FH's help?

I am serious here, do you need her help? Do you need to know you can depend on her and you don't feel you can?? You know the only way you are going to find out don't you?? You are going to have to depend on her. You are going to have to let her help you, and that means you are finally going to have to open up about your pain.

FH, do you realize what I am saying here?? I feel you need to understand something. Right now Grace is an infant, and they take a lot of physical care but not as much emotional care as older children or your spouse. The person that needs emotional care right now is your H. Someone earlier eluded to this, but stop and think about it. You are seeing the signs. You are seeing it in Pops taking care of his health (he is doing what a lot of us males do when we start to feel we are NOT needed), you probably see it in his enthusiasm to do things, and that even means helping you.

You two need to really talk. I don't think this talk is about affairs, or the past. I think this talk needs about support, help, caring, and focus. It is NOT about who is at fault for what. It is about your dreams for the future, what you love about one another, and realizing that you two are both hurt by the past.

It is time to refocus, and FH I suspect in this situation you need to lead your family, and specifically Pops toward better times, and healthier views of things.

Both of you please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

#823412 10/20/03 11:22 PM
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I see and understand both sides. Maybe that's because of where I'm coming from.

pops, does the toll money represent a little of the "soft spot" you spoke of awhile back? I totally understand why it bothers you. My H would give the shirt off his back to a stranger in need, but boy oh boy, I can easily see the same reaction to 75 cents for x-om!!!

fh, I'm glad you're voicing your thoughts. It helps when we can hear both sides. I know all too well about suppressing your thoughts and feelings. I know about being the WW and thinking you don't deserve to have a bad day or have a right to burden H w/ certain thoughts and feelings. I know about being a WW and feeling uncomfortable about posting on here about how I'm REALLY feeling somedays.

Please keep posting, I care, and so do soooooo many others!!

Also, please do the counseling. Gem and Fof8 have given you and pops an awesome gift!

I know you are an extremely busy lady, but if you ever want to email me, please do so. I would love to write to you too. KEJJS@aol.com

Take good care.
~autumnday

#823413 10/20/03 11:31 PM
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Oh cripe, JL, I should just delete my post! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Here's a joke for you.

Which is the worst post on any given thread?

The one right after someone as insightful as JL!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

(esp. when his was not seen prior to posting!!)

Take good care.
~autumnday

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