</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by LynnG:
<strong> This board promotes growth and understanding and nobody is wallowing in self pity. This is a community of people, helping each other deal with a hurt. Many are at different places in their lives and understanding. Go ahead, call it wallowing, I just consider the source.

I have never read one person here slam the OC. The ow deserves and has earned her place to be scorned. That is hardly abnormal, when one looks at the damage an OW (and MM) have caused innocent people.

Go ahead, forgive yourself. Deal with God. Whatever floats your boat. While you are off spouting all your beliefs, may I remind you of "thou shall not commit adultery" or do you have some twisted logic of why that doesn't apply to you? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Lynn - who exactly are you saying this to? And the board that I moderate at TOW ALSO promotes growth and understanding. Granted, some will never "get it"... but most have moved on with their lives.

Catnip,

I'm not into naming names. I'm sure if they want to respond to this thread they will.

NJ,
It sounds like this experiece has made you and your husband better people and your marraige stronger. That's what marriage building is about.

LynnG,
I have seen OC get slammed here manytimes. But then again I'm sure you have your own definition of what slamming means. And insults don't count if the person is hurt, right?.

Never said I was perfect, are you? I have dealt with my situation the best I know how. Yes, I commitTED adultry. I've answered to the lord for my sins(ok maybe not all, sorry I ate the grapes at shoprite when I was 8, and so on). But I'm sure you believe in child abandonment in the sake of the marriage. I'm not talking about the ones that has truly tried contact and it wasn't feasable(sp?).

Tell me this LynnG, Why does 2 wrongs make a right?

It just seems that when ever an OP posts and their not wallowing in self pity and begging for forgiveness from some anonymous people. Some of you get bent out of shape.

I'm not an arrogant person, I just believe that I don't owe anyone on this board anything. I'm just here to learn and offer my opinions.

But it doesn't matter what I think because, Im not your judge, and I'm not You.

<small>[ November 19, 2003, 01:53 PM: Message edited by: ImNotyou ]</small>

I'm not you.

You come onto this thread, and vent about anothers husband and an 18 year old. Her H did not have an affair with an 18 year old, she was stating that this girl has been involved with other married men. Your response was to rip on her and her husband. That is attacking.


Where is oc slammed here? I have been here for 2 months and have never seen anyone slam an OC. Not once.

If you think a married man, who is staying with his wife and their children, and for their best interests, choose no contact, how is that wrong? Are you expecting the wife and the children of the marriage to be sacrificed for the oc? Is that a more suitable arrangement? How is that fair to the children of the marriage? Or, don't they count?

And no, you don't owe this board anything, but the BW owe you nothing either. This is their place to vent about their lives and discuss what they want and will do pertaining to an OC in their lives. It is none of your concern or business if some of us are vocal about no contact. This is a board for marriages and the family. The BW here, get two sides of the issue, some pro contact and some no contact.

As for nc, the OW and MM should have thought of that before they had that baby. OW think of it as abandonment? I don't see it that way. The oc gets child support and health care. What he does not get is to be a member of our family. We decided that immediatley so as not upset our children. You say two wrongs don't make a right? I agree. The 2nd wrong would be to upset the children of the marriage and the wife by having OC. You are expecting the wife and her children to accept what is simply not easy to do. So, when push comes to shove a decision has to be made. If they choose no contact, the oc becomes one, of many victims of two selfish people. Everyone gets hurt. OC included.

I'm here to help BW and let them know that they can have a voice. They can have things whatever way they want. I tell them to get legal advice early to protect themselves and their children. I tell them that it is ok to say they don't want oc in their lives. I tell them it is normal are totally understandable. What advice are you giving them?

LynnG,

Trust me, I've lurked on this board for over 3yrs. There has been attacks on OC. But I don't need to dig up old posts and repost them. Maybe those individuals have grown past that and it wouldn't be fair.

I'm not here to attack anyone.

You are being extremely defensive for the choices you've made. If your happy and secure with them, you don't need to preach to me about what you feel is appropriate for you and your family.

Like I said I'm not the one you have to answer to.
Don't read into that last sentence. I just mean that what is your right, may not be my right and vice a versa. There could also be different paths to the same right.

My opinions of abandonment differs from yours so there is no point in argueing about that.

Your picking apart parts of my posts that you want to pick apart, and say I'm attacking. It doesn't matter what I post, there will always be people to pick it apart because I'm not begging for YOUR/THEIR forgiveness saying what a horrible person I am because of mistakes I've made in my past.

From the day that child was born a member of your husbands family and will always be.

My advice would be(not that you care) is...
Doing something good that is not for your own benefit(can also include emotional benefit) will come back to reward you in so many ways.

why is it always 1 person's fault? The OW or MM? I think BS are very clear that it is BOTH MM & OW fault but it usually only their H they hear I'm sorry from so they are able to begin to forgive.

And OW start to "care" as soon as they have their OWN child to worry about and expect BS and family to care about OC when OC(oops meant OW not OC) never cared about the BS children to begin w/ but everyone is supposed to care about their innocent OC!!?!

Accidental pregnancies do happen but when the person you are having sex w/ is your own spouse then it is not so devastating, but if your having sex w/ someone else's spouse then a pregnancy can ONLY be devastating. Hello!

OW act like they were the only one's lied too and they are so innocent, they are "good" people, "good" parents and hardly ever sorry.

What about the lying OW did being w/ MM in the 1st place. Is nothing sacred? You can have any man no matter what? Why can't OW just come out and say they were wrong? MM KNOWS he was wrong and tries to correct the situation and now he's a monster for "abandoning" OW & OC?

Seems most OW don't mind taking "monsters" $$$$ and have the vindictave attitude that "he should pay"! So first they try to steal some one elses husband or father then when they can't have that they "settle" for stealing "support" from what would have been used for BS and children.

MM are not getting off easy, they are trying to repair some very irreparable damage they played a part in doing, and taking their whole lives to do it and, literally, paying for it!

While OW has the "blessing" of OC and added CS and OW doesn't "regret" a thing because they have their little bundle of joy while BS & MM are struggling to pick up all the pieces of their shattered lives for themselves and their children.

What is the world coming to where there is a message board ("a safe place to go for support") for TOW? When did TOW become an "ok" thing to be?

<small>[ November 19, 2003, 10:19 PM: Message edited by: ktbunch ]</small>

Amen, ktbunch. Amen.

And I really wish that people would stick to one board or the other. Why are BS "not tolerated" at their site, however we "must accept" OW who want to come here? Give me a break. One board or the other, make up your mind!!! I don't come here nearly as much as I could or should, simply because OW are all over the damn place, and that makes me feel unsafe. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> If I wanted to read OW's thoughts, I would lurk at their board. I don't care about your thoughts, OW!!!

(I refuse to put a "T" in front of "OW" because they don't deserve it.)

As for abandonment <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> OW get child support, and that is all they are entitled to. If OW wanted a daddy for their child, they should think about that before having sex with ANYONE...even if it's a single guy, make sure he is available and willing to be a dad...or don't have sex. (I know OW will say that the MM should think the same way...but fact is, it's the woman's body, and she has the choice whether to carry the child or not, so she needs to decide before having sex, if she can deal with the results on her own, if need be.)

I'm not you.

You didn't answer my question. Why should the wife and the children of the marriage be sacrificed for the OC?


You say " doing something good that is not for your own benefit (can also include emotional benefit) will come back and reward you in many ways." I am assuming you mean contact with OC. Once again, OW putting needs of herself and OC above others. I will throw that back at OW with OC. Do the family a favor, take your baby and leave the family alone. No contact, No child support,nothing. Then you will be "rewarded" knowning that some family can heal and have a happy life with out the drama of an OC around. As if that would ever happen.

I am firmly against any contact with OC. I believe that it is disruptive to the family. Hurtful to the children of the marriage. And there is no reason to hurt others for the OC. It is putting OC needs above others. I disagree with that 100% In my home, the children that matter to us are ours. Their needs come first. I also feel that if there was no CS, OW would not be getting pregnant.

And I have read where OW are gleefully excited when the $$. They want him to pay. Etc. It's all about revenge. And who are they using? Their child.

Lynn

For your family and the situation, NC worked best for you. There are stories where contact has worked out great nad the good ole horror stories.

My H had contact in the begining with XOW and OC. She did the normal OW stuff and tried to control everything and play her games. We now have NC with the child. As much as I would like to have OC in our lives and be able to know his brother and sisters, I won't subject my children to her games anymore. She is the classic, I want my child to have a father but you need to dish out the $$ OW. She met her H when OC was 3 months old. OC has only known her H as his father. This past summer she had the gall to stop by out house and intoduce OC to my H as his father. Then proceed to not let visitation happen. She has continually told my H that her H was going to adopt OC. Went as far as to fill out papers, then didn't go throuh with it. She contacted H grandmother after her husband passed away thinking she could get some money. Never happend. These are the kind of OW we all hate.

But you do have your OW who are remorsefull about what happened and leaves the MM alone. Far and few, but it does happen. Or the OW who grows up and thinks what is best for the child and actually works with MM and his W together.

Getting back to the original message here, going to their boards does nothing for a BS. Just like them coming here does nothing for them.

Can you imagine if I went on there and started explaining to them how contact with oc is mean and cruel to the children of the marraige and how they have to accept that fact? And if they don't they are cowards and are willing to hurt innocent children in their ongoing quest for revenge?

Good lord, the place would come unglued if my name appeared!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> And what would be my point for going there? I would know I was only there to rub them wrong. So what would the point be?

I feel the same when one of them comes here and tries to explain how nc is abandonment, etc. It is NOT abandonment, but a by product of her own actions. They will cry how the OC deserves to know his/her siblings and family? Not caring one bit at the cost to the innocent children of the marriage at all. I do get angry when they try to suddenly have the best interest of the child. This sudden concern is suspect. It certainly never was there for the children of the marriage,and still isn't.

So, I think it's best for any BS to not go there, let them have their place. It doesn't hurt anyone.

Thanks for all the replies. I definitely do not have any intentions of going on the OW board to cause havoc. I'm just going there to visit and read up on the posts only. I want to get a better understanding of what's going on with them and how they feel about the situation they are in. I just thought that it would help me understand their feelings. I know there are many innocent OW out there as I know the OW who was involved with my h is. She had no idea my h was married with children until she found out she was pregnant and then my H spilt the beans to her about his family. Believe me she hasn’t been the perfect OW either, as a matter of fact she’s psycho!

I know she is extremely angry and hurting, as I would be if the person I was involved with was married with children and I didn’t know this until I found out I was pregnant. Now she’s going through her pregnancy alone knowing that the person she trusted doesn’t want anything to do with her or the OC. I would be pretty dam upset and crushed. I can honestly relate to the hurt she is going through. My h lied to both of us and he did a good job of hiding the both of us from each other for so long, 3 years to be exact.

The reason to go on the OW site is b/c my h will not talk to me about anything; he avoids the subject by either getting upset or walking away. Since my D-day 6-29-03 five months ago, he just recently contacted a Lawyer but has not followed through. He hasn’t bothered going to see a counselor; he doesn’t need one he said. He just doesn't seem to care about the consequences for filing a Separation to protect our finances from OW. All I know is he absolutely does not want contact with OW/OC at all and he's made that very clear to me and OW. Time is wasting for me, and the way things are going between my h and I, it's time to let go and file for a D. I was considering just a separation but he's giving a lot more reason to move on. H knows how extremely hurtful this has been on me, he sees the tears everyday. I'm more upset with him b/c he won't talk to me about his feelings or what we need to do to take care of this. It's been 5 months since d-day and he hasn't taken care of a dam thing. I know he's hurting but he won't let me in. I currently seeing a counselor and taking Zoloft but I can't move on with him if he's not willing to help this marriage. He talks to me everyday as if nothing happened? I feel lost, alone & confused when he's around me, it's very hurtful that I feel this way about my h. Oh yes, it will hurt me to leave my h but I have GOOD reason to and I don't deserve to be treated this way even after the fact. It's like the A is the knife and he keeps twisting and twisting it by being quiet and not taking care of business for his family.

Dchris,
I hope your husband does go to counseling so he can open up. Maybe if he sees that your seriouse about divorce, it might motivate him to try and work on your marriage.

You've already realized that it takes two to re-build your marriage and it's not fair for you to deal with this pain alone.

I hope the decisions you make work out for the best.


LG,

Is it so hard for you to agree to disagree?

I never told you what YOU should do and not do with your husbands child. My last posts clearly states that everyone has there own beliefs of what's right and wrong for their family.

And my statement did not just apply to OW/OC about doing something thoughtful. It could have meant bringing your husband lunch to work.

I don't take any of this personal. I think if I would have said its night out, you would have agrued that it's day.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by LynnG:
<strong>going to their boards does nothing for a BS. Just like them coming here does nothing for them.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm very big on trying to understand why people behave the way they do. With the first two affairs, I never had a harsh thought for the OW - didn't know them, and felt they owed me nothing. It was my H who had the problem. With the third one, she was a friend of mine, and I had such a hard time understanding the betrayal.

I spent a lot of time reading at gloryb. I was alternately horrified at some of the attitudes, and heartened by the number of people trying to do the right thing. I think it helped me a great deal as I was working through my feelings right after D-Day. But I never had any urge to post there at all, although if I had read a sincere post asking for how a BS felt, I might have answered.

I agree with new jersey. It took my H and I, a long time to get where we are in our marriage. my d-day was in 1996. The pain is not as fresh and raw. I seldom cry anymore. I understood exactly what nj stated. H and I have no contact. H's choice.

NGU, "I do not see what came from all this that was helpful in anyone's recovery?"

My answer:
The TOW's board, and meeting my h's OW and children in person in 1996, has helped me see the other side.

In 1996, my OW had to tell a 14 and 10 year old the truth. The OC's always thought that their parents were divorced. How shocking to find out your father was never married to your mother, and he has been married to his wife for 23 yrs., and has other children that are grown.

In 1996, all of our children were already grown, and did not want contact. They are worried about inheritance.

Every situation is different, as are life experiences.

Everyone on this board is supposed to be working on their marriage, and I believe that all of us are.

I still wish marriage builders had a special group, for posters like new jersey and myself.

It's called growing and understanding. It depends where your marriage is, in the healing process.

The problem, I believe, is that there are so many OW on this board, that are trying to rebuild their marriages, and accept contact.

Whereas, the BW and her H, with no contact, get no support, they get ridiculed.

Sorry for rambling. Sometimes I get carried away.

ember

Ember, I agree with you 100%. I am a huge advocate for no contact. We have just shy of 2 years to pay child support and our obligation will be meet. Complete. Finished.

I come here and see these poor, suffering BW, not sure which way to turn, what to do. Lost and hurt. Then they get to read some OW and how the XMM, if he chooses no contact is a coward, etc. Really, what to they expect? Do they honestly think a married man,with a family is going to play house with them? They hide their dagger behind "it's best for the oc?" Well, when I came here and told BW, that what is best for OC is not her concern, and that she should only be concerned for herself and her children. All hell broke loose. OW were horrifed that someone would advocate "abandoning" a child. As if the OC is the only child/person in the saga with feelings. I don't want to see some BW make a huge mistake. I guess caring for a family and a hurting wife makes me a monster!!! So, I will happily be the board monster!! I have no problem with that.

lynnG

You have my vote 100% <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> keep doing what you are doing. Care less who disagrees!

ember, LynnG, and MALC,
I also agree with N/C. In the beginning sometimes a BS agrees to it only to find the upheaval way too much to handle.

H and I now look back and he tells me "What was I thinking?" We tried contact for a short time and it was brutal.

Once oc/ow was out of the picture, the true rebuilding began with us. And we keep going stronger with each passing day.

There are a few here who do have contact. Stacia and whatif? are two.

Ultimately, H didn't want oc. Ow knew. In our case ow believed H would change his mind AND I would throw him out. Never underestimate the power of love or two who become one again.

Although we have a lot of years left for cs, we will be alright.

If contact were to go smoothly I know I'd have eventually left for a number of reasons. Humiliation, having op in the picture for years, resentment, my life totally changed from what it was before oc. We married without ex's and oc's and I wouldn't have lasted. Would have to change too many ways of life, one being free for the weekends to spend them as we wish. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> We're no spring chickens!

I have to agree with the Harleys, N/C. If both spouses agree. It's that oc "trail" and WS thinking they can have it all that destroys most marriages here. Just my opinion...

So you guys have supporters, more than you know.

love
Debi

Let me say that I very rarely read on this part of the site. I usually post on the Divorced section, but this is an interesting thread. I realize that it has to be extremely upsetting to be in either woman's shoes. Afterall, we are talking about our children's welfare, both emotionally and monetarily. Both sides seem to have some valid points. I can see how a mother would have reservations about the possibility of her children being upset about another sibling, albeit half sibling, being brought into their lives. It strikes me that only a very strong, secure and emotionally stable woman could accept an OW into their lives. I think these type of women are rare. Alternately, I think only the same type of woman could "share" her OC with the W of a MM. The quetion that comes to me is what is best for the children? All of the children. Of course there is no perfect answer to this and all situations would have to be considered. I can't help thinking that if all adults put the wellbeing of all the children ahead of themselves that things would work out eventually. Call me the eternaly optimist!

From an outsiders perspective, I don't see this as any different than a regular blending of families that is done when two parents divorce and marry other people. Who would support the father (XH) going NC with his children because he divorced and married someone else and had a child? Why does it have to be any different? He would be a deadbeat Dad who abandoned his child and responsibilities. Responsibilities to a child don't end with money! They begin with money and the most important thing a parent gives to a child is their love and time. To say a father is meeting his reponsibilities by only paying support is beyond illogical. I certainly expect more than that from my XH to his children! The H could not have a relationship with the previous affair partner of course. But that is no different than an XH not having a relationship with his XW.

Frankly, I don't understand NC to a man's child. How come it's not morally "right" unless the child is an OC? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by TheFeminineSide:
<strong>It strikes me that only a very strong, secure and emotionally stable woman could accept an OW into their lives. I think these type of women are rare.

=^^= I think you sell women short. I believe women are much stronger emotionally than you give them credit for. In fact, I don't think strength has a lot to do with this issue as much as whether or not NC or Contact will benefit the children of the marriage and OC. For many, it is more an intellectual decision, well thought out as to whether or not contact will work, considering all the variables to each couples' particular set of circumstances. Contact decisions should never be made while in the flux of D-day emotionalism.

From an outsiders perspective, I don't see this as any different than a regular blending of families that is done when two parents divorce and marry other people.

=^^= Trust me...there is a HUGE difference. This is apples and oranges to most Betrayeds since they were "ambushed" into "step-parenthood" and had no say in the matter at all. It is much, much different when you meet a man who was married before and had children BEFORE HE MET YOU as you go into the marriage knowing full well that he had a life before you married him. You have the opportunity to make a conscious decision. His children from his previous marriage are NOT products of betrayal. Their exsistence is not a source of angst and humiliation and heartache.

Who would support the father (XH) going NC with his children because he divorced and married someone else and had a child? Why does it have to be any different?

=^^= No one here would support a husband abandoning his children from his marriage. He has an obligation to them as part of his family under the sanctity of the marriage, under an "agreed to" contract in front of witnesses. Not covertly under sheets in secret. It is different because of the betrayal, the breach of trust.
It is different...very different. When I married my husband, I knew he had two children from his previous marriage. He had custody and I raised these kids as my own children and loved them as my own. They were conceived and born into his marriage long before I knew him. He did not betray me and his children were part of his family from the beginning of all their lives.

To say a father is meeting his reponsibilities by only paying support is beyond illogical.

=^^= Really? Well, obviously you have not walked in a Betrayed's shoes and have no idea the devasting destruction that one experiences when they have devoted themselves to a marriage for a number of years, built a long and complicated history together, shared everything together, raised a family and have an extended family together and suddenly experiences the worst possible thing that can happen in a marriage...not just an affair, a breach of trust and deception, but the affair and the pain of an affair is SQUARED with the advent of an OC. Nothing can compare to the enormous pain of finding out that your spouse is having a child with someone else who is not you.

I certainly expect more than that from my XH to his children!

=^^= From an ex-husband? Of course! You should! You had these children together in a marriage and no one betrayed anyone or destroyed anything by bringing these kids into you marriage. Your kids are a product of your marriage.

The H could not have a relationship with the previous affair partner of course. But that is no different than an XH not having a relationship with his XW.

=^^= You've GOT to be kidding? There is absolutely no comparison for all the reasons stated above. When I married my husband, I KNEW aforehand that I would be dealing with his ex-wife on occasion and I decided this was OK and I could handle it. They were divorced, their marriage was over and so were the emotional attachements. I knew what I was getting into. The OW burst into my life knowing full well I sat at home in turmoil facing the impending destruction of my marriage while she spent weekends with my husband. She was ruthless and didn't care what or how I felt, how my kids felt or how this would effect all our lives, what history we had carved together, how many people would be effected and how deeply I loved my husband and wanted my marriage to survive. She didn't care. She just didn't care about any of it. It is very difficult for a Betrayed to suddenly care about an OW's angst and distress when the near destruction of her marriage was at the hands of this ridiculously demanding woman who has no rights in the first place. She was an interloper and boldly moved forward with the Wayward Spouse, ignoring the pain and heartache the Betrayed and the children and family would experience. It never ceases to amaze me how these people have so much crust to do what they do and then have the gall to make demands without remorse or conscience. They never cared about your kids but you are expected to care about theirs and make adjustments and include them into your life when they were never in your plans. It makes for a very crowded marriage.

Frankly, I don't understand NC to a man's child.

=^^= It's OK. You are not expected to understand nor could you if you have not experienced this yourself.

How come it's not morally "right" unless the child is an OC? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

=^^= As long as the WS supports the OC financially, there is no abandonment. The onus of the emotional well being falls on the shoulders of the mother, who probably knew well ahead of time that her x-lover was married, thus, otherwise engaged, and the burden of this heartwrenching situation falls on her. The reason her OC does not have a proactive and involved father is that she chose to have a child with a man who was married to someone else and not available. He has previous obligations and should not be expected to abandon many for one. It is preposterous for any OW to expect she can invade a marriage, do as she pleases and then insist everyone adjust their lives accordingly to welcome her child into their lives when no one had any idea or had any input as to whether or not it was OK for her to do this.
However, that being said, often the Betrayed Spouse will agree to contact after significant healing and recovery has taken place within the marriage...we all seem to soften up with time. Most Betrayeds have tender feelings for their OC and wish things could be different and sincerely wish for and hope that the OC is doing well, is happy and is surrounded by love.
Since this is Marriage Builders, the consensus here is to concentrate on the marriage first and foremost and focus on cementing the marriage before incorporating the OC into your lives. Most of the time it is the OW who makes contact impossible with only a few exceptions that we have seen here. On the other hand, we have a few situations here where contact is not only successful but is rewarding for all involved. There is no right or wrong where contact is concerned, but there is an overall desire that the OC is cared for, provided for and the tender feelings we all eventually feel towards the OC will keep the door open for future possibilities if things can be worked out.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

<small>[ November 25, 2003, 10:12 AM: Message edited by: catnip ]</small>

Well said Catnip. It is so hard for me to understand why it is the BW and her children who are required to accept the unaceptable. That they should do this or that. How cruel and self centered. That once the OC is born, everyone should do what is "best for the children". I will ask again, why and how is it best for the children of the marriage to have contact with OC? What if they don't want to? Why is the OC feelings and wellbeing more important then those of children of the marriage?

Some OW expect the BW and her children to behave above reproach. Thta now that MM and OW have destroyed so much, everyone else should shift their values and their wishes and beliefs to accomodate the mistake. Not realistic at all.

Catnip,
Thank you for your reply and thoughts. As I said, I am an outsider who could never really understand this totally since I've never walked in your shoes or those of a mother with an OC. Can't say as I want to either! LOL I have sympathy for all of you mothers who are in this situation.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by catnip:


"For many, it is more an intellectual decision, well thought out as to whether or not contact will work, considering all the variables to each couples' particular set of circumstances. Contact decisions should never be made while in the flux of D-day emotionalism. "

Will work for who? The adults or the children? I don't see how contact could be harmful to a child as long as they are getting the love and attention too from their Dad. Seems it's the adults that are having the issues here. I'm a stepchild and only have step-siblings. I can't imagine loving a brother and sister more.

"Trust me...there is a HUGE difference. This is apples and oranges to most Betrayeds since they were "ambushed" into "step-parenthood" and had no say in the matter at all. It is much, much different when you meet a man who was married before and had children BEFORE HE MET YOU as you go into the marriage knowing full well that he had a life before you married him. You have the opportunity to make a conscious decision. His children from his previous marriage are NOT products of betrayal. Their exsistence is not a source of angst and humiliation and heartache."

Again you are referring only to the adults feelings here, not the children. Whose feelings really count the most? When are adults required to act like adults and do what is best for the children? It seems to me that a woman who is married and then her H betrays her and that betrayal produces a child, has to make the decision all over again to "marry" him again and with the decision factor in his responsibilties to the new child he has brought into this world. Just like a woman who chooses to marry a divorced man with children. It's a matter of choice at that point. The child will never go away. Or should the child be required to. I see it no differently than a woman who chooses to marry a man who has children and then expects him to not see those children and to abandon them How is it any different?

"No one here would support a husband abandoning his children from his marriage. He has an obligation to them as part of his family under the santity of the marriage, under an aggreed to contract in front of witnesses. Not covertly under sheets in secret. "

So you are saying that it all depends how a child comes to this world as to whether they "deserve" to not be abondoned by their father? That a man who is married has the MORAL obligation because of a certificate of marriage to the mother? But a man without a certificate is not morally obligated? Pretty interesting train of thought. And I thought adults had the moral obligation to raise any baby they were responsible for bringing into this world.


You are right, I've never walked in those shoes. While I had a H who did cheat, many times actually, he didn't father a child with those women.

"Your kids are a product of your marriage."

Kids are not just a product of marriage. There are lots of marriages without kids and there are lots of kids born before marriage. My kids are a product of a defunct marriage, but we are doing our best to co-parent for the best of the kids.

The H could not have a relationship with the previous affair partner of course. But that is no different than an XH not having a relationship with his XW.

"You've GOT to be kidding? There is absolutely no comparison for all the reasons stated above. When I married my husband, I KNEW aforehand that I would be delaing with his ex-wife on occasion and I decided this was OK and I could handle it. They were divorced, their marriage was over and so were the emotional attachemtns (for the most part). I knew what I was getting into."

Catnip, I don't like to take discussions to personal levels, just to keep them at a higher "theory" level because people tend to get upset. So speaking not about you but about any woman who CHOSE to remain in a marriage after infidelity, has the same choices that a woman has before marrying a man with children who happens to be divorced. It's the same scenario. The woman has to look at the man's responsibilities and decide. Why should she have the "right" to tell the man to abandon his child? Sorry I don't see it. Everything you write is about your feelings, not the childs.


"It's OK. You are not expected to understand nor could you if you have not experienced this yourself."

Thanks. While I don't understand it, my heart goes out to those wives who have had their worlds turned upsidedown by a husband who can't keep it in his pants and then DOESN'T EVEN have the smarts to prevent bringing a child into this world in this situation.

I said, " How come it's not morally "right" unless the child is an OC? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

"As long as the WS supports the OC financially, there is no abandonment. The onus of the emotional well being falls on the shoulders of the mother, who probably knew well ahead of time that her x-lover was married, thus, otherwise engaged and the burden of this heartwrenching situation falls on her."

Boy, I don't see this. Any man who brings a child into this world is responsible for more than the money part that he is required by law to pay. Irregardless of the situation, obligation to children we bring into this world remains. Nothing changes that. Now that doesn't mean that a woman married to such a man has any obligation. I think not.

"Most of the time it is the OW who makes contact impossible with only a few exceptions that we have seen here."

I could see that happening a lot. Especially from an OW who got pregnant on purpose to try and take the man from his existing family!

"On the other hand, we have a few situations here where contact is not only successful but is rewarding for all involved. There is no right or wrong where contact is concerned, but there is an overall desire that the OC is cared for, provided for and the tender feelings we all eventually feel towards the OC will keep the door open for future possibilities if things can be worked out."
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That HAS to be cool when it all works out!!

My good wishes and prayers are with all you ladies who were put into this awful, unimaginable situation unwillingly by the man they love and who swore to protect them from the world. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

<small>[ November 25, 2003, 10:49 AM: Message edited by: TheFeminineSide ]</small>