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#825195 01/08/04 06:14 AM
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I have just posted under General Q's but as I am here I though maybe someone her has some advice or comment for me.
My W suffered from PND for 3 years after our first Son. After our second I got her help via our local careworker. She would attend sessions and groups and has even presented her case to an ordience. We are going through a bad patch again and I suspect it is the depression again, but she hides it so well. Is there anything that may help here, things I could be looking for?

Thanks and regards

#825196 01/08/04 07:31 AM
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Does PND have something to do with "pre or post natal" depression? What exactly is this?

I'm not sure if there is anyone here that can give you any advice on something appears to be a medical issue, unless someone here has experienced it themselves. What do her doctors tell you?

Sorry that I don't have anything to offer but I am not sure what this malady is. This site primarily deals with couples who are rebuilding their marriages after an infidelity where a child is the result of an affair. But, most of us here are women and maybe there is someone here that might know something about this. Stay tuned.

Good luck

Catnip =^^=

#825197 01/08/04 08:24 AM
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Cat, PND is Post Natal Depression. My W suffered from it for 3 years after our first son. During this period I felt she treated me appalingly and I started to confide in another woman(Hence I am on MB). She was diagnosed before the birth of our second, 4 years after the first, and only because I asked for seperation. Our councellor picked it up and I went to our GP. The GP arranged a visit from the Health Visior and things moved from there. In the UK there is no funding for PND suffers and medical support is always in the form of drugs which my W does not want.
The problem arises when my W hides the depression so well that I cant tell if she is just having a bad day, or is it a relapse. It can be anything from not getting out of bed all day and not answering the phone to, making excuses to stay up and watch televison until 3 in the morning. It is very difficult to approach as I dont know if I am doing anything wrong or is it the depression.

#825198 01/08/04 08:47 AM
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Sounds like depression. I to suffer from it, didn't want the drugs, but they are a life saver for me. Sometimes in these situations you have to do some things you don't want to, hence the drugs. She should also try to seek some counceling. Its a hard thing to go through, but stay srong.

#825199 01/08/04 09:12 AM
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Crazymum, thanks, I am going to suggest it to her tonight and hope she will take me seriously.

#825200 01/08/04 09:48 AM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by initdeep:
<strong> During this period I felt she treated me appalingly and I started to confide in another woman(Hence I am on MB).

=^^= Did you have an actual affair then? If so, does she know about this? And if so, then perhaps her depression is due in part to the A...just guessing. I know my husband's affair depressed the hell out of me for four years. Please elaborate and give us more history.

She was diagnosed before the birth of our second, 4 years after the first, and only because I asked for seperation.

=^^= Did your request for a seperation inspire her to seek and sustain medical help?

In the UK there is no funding for PND suffers and medical support is always in the form of drugs which my W does not want.

=^^= You might have to dig deep and pay for it yourself and this is one expense that would be well worth your while...to get help and the proper medication. It does not matter whether or not she "wants" to take drugs, it is no longer an option as to what she wants...it is about what she MUST do to recover.
I prefer to call it "medication"..."drugs" has such a negative connotation. The advancements in medication available today for these terrible chemical impbalances is nothing short of a miracle and can make all the difference in the world between "just existing" and going through the motions and actually enjoying life. Sometimes it is just a physical chemical imbalance that can be corrected with medication, so why not light the candle instead of cursing the darkness?
My husband is acutely bipolar and his only option was to go on Neurontin and commit to taking it religiously for the rest of his life or live with his malady alone, because mental illness of any kind is incredibly destructive to those around the sufferer too.

The problem arises when my W hides the depression so well that I cant tell if she is just having a bad day, or is it a relapse. It can be anything from not getting out of bed all day and not answering the phone to, making excuses to stay up and watch televison until 3 in the morning.

=^^= Oh God...that sounds like me. Sometimes I don't answere the phone simply because I can't abide talking to anyone and listening to them prattle on about nonsense. And I often stay up until the wee hours taking that time for myself to watch TV, hang out with my cat, read, post here or give myself a pedicure. Basically, I think we are ALL depressed. Our world is complicated and messy and we are all effected by it. But, most of us are victims of "situational depression" in that an actual unpleasant occurance has to happen to propel us into the blues. Others of us are clinically depressed (like my husband) and don't need an excuse to be blue. Some people "enjoy" their misery and only feel alive when they are miserable. It gives them something to do and talk about, if only to themselves. Depression is also self serving in the sense that the focus is on themselves and their plight du jour, and borne out of self absorption. They need to be "distracted" to others around them and other activities to get themselves out of themselves.

It is very difficult to approach as I dont know if I am doing anything wrong or is it the depression.

=^^= Well, I doubt if you are doing something to cause this or if your wife would be depressed anyway, but I can guarantee you if she thinks you are distant, fooling around, detached or withdrawn, she will be very depressed. From my experience with my husband, I have found the closer we have become and more connected, the less he feels depressed (and me too)....plus he takes his meds religiously. You might have to put yourself out and make the grand gestures to see if you can catapult your wife out of her funk. Things that might seem silly and insignificant are often just the right thing to do to start the ball rolling. Perhaps you could leave her a short love note in the morning by the coffee pot (or in your case, the tea pot-haha) telling her how "fetching she is and that she makes you drool" before you leave for the day like my husband did for me this morning. I stuck a note in his lunchbox telling him he was a hunka hunka burning love, too. He isn't, but we like to pretend he is. Lighthearted, ridiculous humor can set the tone for the day.
Call her during the day, send her flowers, take her to see something whimsical and romantic like "Big Fish" and then out for a sandwich and brew. (We did last weekend and it was so much fun!) Stupid, simply stuff is always the best and the most memorable.
There are a lot of things you can do (you DO have the power since we all act and react to each other) to make her feel special and brighten her day, her perspective and give her hope. And you, too. Another thing I can suggest is to sit down with her and make some plans for your future so she has something to look forward to. My husband and I do this all the time and we have rarely accomplished any of them in the 24 years together, but it is fun to sit down and dream together. We've been dreaming of hitting the road like gypsies and traveling all over the US for ages.

Perhaps all you need to do is to lighten up and have some fun and not let it become so serious and heavy. She needs the meds, too, if only for a while to get her started...kind of like training wheels.

I don't know if I have offered anything helpful except for a lot of absurd notions, however, in the last five years, I have become an expert in the field of bipolar behavior and depression and these are some of the ridiculous things we do that seem to make our lives more fun and happy. Works for us!

Good luck,Initdeep. What's your next step?

Catnip =^^=

PS My wicked stepmum is from Chesterfield.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

#825201 01/09/04 05:17 AM
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Cat, thanks for the insight.In answer to your questions, yes I had an EA with and older woman. She was a work colleague, and it lasted for about a year. In fact, and I know this doesnt help, my W fell pregnant with number 2 while I was seeing OW. Made me wonder as SF was nearly zero for 2-3 months at a time.I would leave for work as early as possible and come home as late as possible just to keep away from the house. Before left in the morning I would prepare all the baby's meals and when I got home I would clean and wash up. I didnt go out and look for someone, and I certainly didnt want to have an affair.
I asked for a seperation as it was becoming intolerable, but was open to suggestions. So we went to councelling. As things started to improve at home so my relationship with OW faded. My W was suspicious and read the text messages I had recieved, she looked through my case and found cards and note OW had sent. The A was over but I(fog) wanted to leave, so we went to IC and then MC. Somewhere in all of this, the councellor said that she felt my W was suffering from PND.
I have paid, and can pay for councelling, Yesterday I booked a session for Tuesday.
The thing here is we have both made tremendous progress, my W lost the extra weight, started to take care of herself and got a part time job. I arranged to work from home and only go into my office 1 or 2 days a week. I leave my phone where it can be checked and my W uses my PC to check her email, she has my passwords.
Today is a classic example of the problem though. Whenever I leave the house I give her a kiss bye, even if just taking my son to school. Today is her turn to take him as she helps at school on Fridays. I was awake and she just walked out the house, I feel that I make the effort, even if she is sleeping, to kiss her and tell her I love her, and yet she wont do it for me. I sent her a text to say, I would be warm and waiting for my kiss when she got home. Her reply was to get the stove fixed.( I have had it done) When I popped out for milk and bread yesterday, I bought her a CD she said she liked, response, oh thanks that is NICE.
This is not a short problem, we are on 2 months like this now. Normally it is a couple of weeks.
As for the TEA thing, theer is a laugh. Before Christmas she commented that I never brought her tea in bed, so I did, on a number of occasions. Did she ever drink it, not. I know it is the gesture she was looking for, but I need something in return.

I am sorry to rattle on, it does make me feel a bit better though. Oh and something that doesnt help, we are not from UK, we came her from Zimbabwe. My W's family are/were farmers and have have been thrown off the farms they, and there fathers were born on. My W hates it here.
We too dream of hitting the road in the US, we love Texas and cant wait to go back there. I would like and Airstream, a fishing rod, and and open stretch of clean water to fish in.

#825202 01/09/04 06:10 AM
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Cat, thanks for the insight.In answer to your questions, yes I had an EA with and older woman. She was a work colleague, and it lasted for about a year. In fact, and I know this doesnt help, my W fell pregnant with number 2 while I was seeing OW. Made me wonder as SF was nearly zero for 2-3 months at a time.I would leave for work as early as possible and come home as late as possible just to keep away from the house. Before left in the morning I would prepare all the baby's meals and when I got home I would clean and wash up. I didnt go out and look for someone, and I certainly didnt want to have an affair.
I asked for a seperation as it was becoming intolerable, but was open to suggestions. So we went to councelling. As things started to improve at home so my relationship with OW faded. My W was suspicious and read the text messages I had recieved, she looked through my case and found cards and note OW had sent. The A was over but I(fog) wanted to leave, so we went to IC and then MC. Somewhere in all of this, the councellor said that she felt my W was suffering from PND.
I have paid, and can pay for councelling, Yesterday I booked a session for Tuesday.
The thing here is we have both made tremendous progress, my W lost the extra weight, started to take care of herself and got a part time job. I arranged to work from home and only go into my office 1 or 2 days a week. I leave my phone where it can be checked and my W uses my PC to check her email, she has my passwords.
Today is a classic example of the problem though. Whenever I leave the house I give her a kiss bye, even if just taking my son to school. Today is her turn to take him as she helps at school on Fridays. I was awake and she just walked out the house, I feel that I make the effort, even if she is sleeping, to kiss her and tell her I love her, and yet she wont do it for me. I sent her a text to say, I would be warm and waiting for my kiss when she got home. Her reply was to get the stove fixed.( I have had it done) When I popped out for milk and bread yesterday, I bought her a CD she said she liked, response, oh thanks that is NICE.
This is not a short problem, we are on 2 months like this now. Normally it is a couple of weeks.
As for the TEA thing, theer is a laugh. Before Christmas she commented that I never brought her tea in bed, so I did, on a number of occasions. Did she ever drink it, not. I know it is the gesture she was looking for, but I need something in return.

I am sorry to rattle on, it does make me feel a bit better though. Oh and something that doesnt help, we are not from UK, we came her from Zimbabwe. My W's family are/were farmers and have have been thrown off the farms they, and there fathers were born on. My W hates it here.
We too dream of hitting the road in the US, we love Texas and cant wait to go back there. I would like and Airstream, a fishing rod, and and open stretch of clean water to fish in.

#825203 01/09/04 10:51 AM
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IID

It sounds like your wife is profoundly depressed and is emotionally dead if she is unable to make any attempt to meet your emotional needs or respond to your gestures. This is frightening because this sets people up to look for affection elsewhere. As long as you bear in mind that your wife is obviously ill and struggling with a horrible case of depression and can't help it, you might be able to tough it out and not react negatively.

There are so many medications available today that can balance moods and stabilize. I have ehard that it takes anywhere from two to six weeks for the meds to "kick in" where you can see a difference. I know your wife is unwilling to take meds, but this has become serious and she needs to do something. I hope your counselor will be able to convince her to begin medication immediately.

At least you are aware of the trouble your marriage is in and are making an effort to change thigns and I think that is so wonderful because so many times, the neglected spouse does nothing except to leave, either emotionally or physically or with an affair.

I know this is a very difficult time for you and that your wife is not repsonding to your affections or to you at all right now. Maybe your counselor can map out how to proceed on this. I don't know if an ultimatum is appropriate here or not. You don't want to make empty threats or do something that could make matters worse. But, if you have a good counselor that is pro-marriage and can determine which medication would work well for your wife and has the ability to coax her into taking them, you might get on the other side of this limbo the two of you are in.

Stay strong and keep the faith. Don't give up on this, IID. Your'e in my prayers. Keep us updated on your progress.

Catnip =^^=

#825204 01/09/04 11:51 AM
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Just a quick response.

I am a psychiatric nurse and want you to know your wife could definately be experiencing an affective disorder related to birth of your child or be just biologically wired to be more prone to depression and/or manic depressive or bipolar disorder.

Go and get her psychiatric help.Don't go to general practitioner, I am a firm believer in seeing a specialist for emotional problems and this one needs to be treated.

Even her lack of response to your gestures could be an indicator of these mood disorders.When depressed,you do not feel worthy of any warm gesture, and certaily not capable of giving warmth to anyone. you feel you are a burden.

Get some help for her.Tell her meds help, work, are not addictive, and many people take them.

good luck.

#825205 01/09/04 11:42 PM
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I believe I had post-partum depression after my 2nd baby, by the time I realized it, I was pregnant w/ baby #3 so I could not take any medication. I got a little better during that pregnancy but noticed after the birth that I seemed to be caught in a downward spiral that was getting worse every day much faster than before.

My symptoms weren't exactly like your wife but similar, depression can have different symptoms for different people. This can become extremely dangerous, especially the post-partum type because many times it can include violent thoughts not only towards the self but towards the baby.

I remember having suicidal thoughts and at the same time thinking it was very normal,like.... doesn't every body think of slitting thier wrists while chopping carrots??!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

My point is I finally sought some psychological help, I was surprised and relieved by how serious the doctors took me and didn't react like I was crazy. I had mixed feelings about taking medication but after it made me feel so much better and normal and no more crazy thoughts, I believe it was a life saver. The medication just helps you to function normally again and think rationally, it is not an "upper" as many might think.

Now I am no longer even on the medication and I am doing fine. It helps to "balance" your body chemistry until your body can do it on it's own.

I think it is very important to talk to your wife and see if there is something that is triggering her behaviour. You seem to be very supportive and understanding but stay away from confiding in any other females.....it will lead to disaster. Maybe your wife knows this happened and is extremely hurt by it and waiting for you to confess?

Just a thought.

<small>[ January 11, 2004, 07:54 PM: Message edited by: ktbunch ]</small>

#825206 01/13/04 01:31 AM
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Cat,Unhappy, and KT. Thank you so much for your responses, a lot to think about and try. We have our session tomorrow at 12:30, it is the same councellor we used last year. She is very good and my W and I definitly improved as a result of her time. I pray for nothing more than a good session tomorrow as today I was a horrid, nasty, selfish person and dont really know how to fix it. W's car was playing up so I said I would use it today. Just to make sure mine was okay I started it last night. Well this morning W wanted to take my son to school. Tries to start the car, nothing. She phoned me in a flat rage, I was in the office so not in a position to help. I said she should phone the AA, they would come out and help. Well things went from bad to worse and after an agruement on the phone, I stayed at work and avoided calling or anything(after saying I would be home as soon as possible) She made lunch for me and I didnt even bother to turn up. When I did get home, straight into the arguement and to tell the truth, I really am sick of it. I am getting to the stage where I dont want to argue with her any more, actually, I would rather not talk to her at all.
When I write this I feel lost and hopeless. Earlier she asked if the councelling was even worth it. I said I was going even if she didnt. We will see tomorrow.

Thanks and regards

#825207 01/14/04 01:20 AM
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Heading back to General Questions for update. Thanks for your support.

#825208 01/15/04 07:17 AM
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Cat. et el, My W has been asked to assist in a documentary done by the BBC on PND. I am really hoping that something will come of this. Our relationship is at breaking point now where both of us are considering seperation, and the frightening thing is we are calm and rational in our discussions. This is not anger talking and I am more scared now than ever before. My W wont even read MB any more and she introduced me to it 18 months ago. She feels that she is okay and doesnt need any support.

Regards


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