I have read in some of the really old posts about some of the women trying to sue the OW for alienation of affection. ANyone ever do that and be successful? Or for anything else for that matter? I have no interest in doing that, because my life is enough of a mess, but I am just interested. It seems like they can try to take away our husbands, have their children even though they are not wanted, destroy our marriages, make us pay them for doing all this (I am in the minority that believe that if the OW gets pregnant knowing the man is married, the man puts it on the table that he does not want this child or to be a part of it, want her to get an abortion, she decides that SHE wants the child and will raise it - then SHE should be responsible for finacially raising it as well. - Sorry, I know this is a big debate, but woman have options. Ever heard of the "morning after pill" - it is not abortion, legal in many states, and if you truly don't want to get pregnant you can visit you GYN after unprotected sex. Women have the choice of abortion or adoption, men have no choice. They give their choice, but it is ignored by the women who do what THEY want and make the men and their families pay them to have these children) Anyway, that wasn't my point, but it makes my angry. They seem to be able to do so much to ruin our lives, yet we have no legal rights as the spouse. Has anyone been able to find anything? Can you sue her for mental cruelty, your therapy bills, all the antidepressants, the time lost with your family and friends? Why does the woman have the right to end a pregnancy but a man doesn't? What if HE doesn't want to raise and support a child for 18 years. If a man wants the child and a woman doesn't, he can't force her to stay pregant and not have an abortion. She can call all the shots, but doesn't have to take the resposibility for it. I'm not interested in hearing from OW who have different opinions about why these men should suppport them - go to your other board for that. While I agree with taking responsibility for having an A and having sex, the choice to A. not go to a GYN after having unprotected sex was the womans choice and a stupid one if you didn't want to get pregnant. We all know how babies are made. and B. the choice to continue with the pregancy was the womans alone - take resposibility for it and C. the choice to raise the child alone and not give it up for adoption was again the womans choice - take resposibility for it.

fortheboys,
There's usually not much a person can do about it anymore. Most states used to have "alienation of affection" laws that would allow you to do that, but most have been abolished. Only 6 states still allow that kind of suit, and mostly it is very rare. In any case, one typically has to be divorced to proceed in order to show an actual loss. Some states might allow a personal injury type of action, but that is fairly chancey as well. The court system generally panders to the whims of society - and in this day and age, affairs and immorality are just rampant. I'm not saying that you couldn't bring an action against ow - it MIGHT be possible - but I think the odds would be against you. I, personally, was just itching to sue ow. Or run her over with a car. In the end, it's probably a good thing that I didn't do either one.

In case you didn't see the other post - I did get your email and will try to call you tomorrow.
-cd

<small>[ January 12, 2004, 11:31 AM: Message edited by: litlone ]</small>

, I know this is a big debate, but woman have options.
Yeah, and sdo do men. They have the option to have sex or not.

Ever heard of the "morning after pill" - it is not abortion
Not to get into a debate over abortion but...
If the egg is fertilized then it is an abortion. Perhaps not by a legal definition but with no interference it will grow into a person.
The morning after pill stop the egg from attaching to the uterine wall if it is fertilized.

Women have the choice of abortion or adoption, men have no choice.
Men have a BIG choice in the matter.
Sex equals babies. Don't want babies or not ready to handle them? Don't have sex.

They seem to be able to do so much to ruin our lives, yet we have no legal rights as the spouse.
It's not the ow who is ruining your life, it is your husband.

Can you sue her for mental cruelty, your therapy bills, all the antidepressants, the time lost with your family and friends?
In some states you can. The laws allowing this were pretty standard way back when, but they were taken off the books because it basically treats the ws as "property" of the bs.

She can call all the shots, but doesn't have to take the resposibility for it.
She doesn't? If she keeps it, then isn't that the responsibility?

Why does the woman have the right to end a pregnancy but a man doesn't?
Cause he's not pregnant.

<small>[ January 12, 2004, 11:30 AM: Message edited by: litlone ]</small>

Chris -CA - you talk like someone who is not in this situation. Do you have an OC in your life to deal with? My H did make the choice to have sex, but sex does not equal babies. Women are just as responsible as men for birth control. His OW was almost 40 and relied soley on condoms for birth control. What about taking some responsibility for your own body if you don't want to get pregnant. Women have MANY options for birth control. Condoms are the least reliable, and any intelligent woman knows that. You are right, it is the woman who is pregnant, so maybe she should take a little more responsibility in the birth control instead of counting on the man to always wear a condom and then going out drinking together and neither one of you remembering to put it on! She knows when she gets her period, when she is most likely ovulating - if you don't want to get pregnant be a RESPONSIBLE WOMAN and use birth control. Stop blaming the men for everything and then making them pay for your choices because they turn out to be harder than you thought.

One more thing Chris - the morning after pill prevents implantation so a woman has her period like she normally would. This happens many times in a womans life without her even knowing - the sperm and the egg meet up and do not become implanted in the wall of the uterus. This is NOT abortion. For someone who really does not want to get pregnant and who visits her GYN the day after having unprotected sex, this is virtually the same as having her period - she would have no idea at this point if there was an egg that had been fertilized. Again, this happens naturally quite often and is NOT considered abortion.

the morning after pill prevents implantation so a woman has her period like she normally would.
Yes, but had she not taken the pill, she would get pregnant. Maybe.

This happens many times in a womans life without her even knowing - the sperm and the egg meet up and do not become implanted in the wall of the uterus
And? If this were to happen this time, she wouldn’t need the pill.

For someone who really does not want to get pregnant and who visits her GYN the day after having unprotected sex, this is virtually the same as having her period
“Virtually the same” but not the same. Her body may behave identically, but it is forced to get rid of the egg because of the pill.

- she would have no idea at this point if there was an egg that had been fertilized
It doesn’t matter if she knows it or not. The reason she takes the MAP is because the egg may get fertilized and implanted. If she knew this was NOT going to happen, she wouldn’t need to take a pill.

Do you have an OC in your life to deal with?
No, I don’t

sex does not equal babies
It doesn’t? Okay, not always. But if one does not factor in the possibility of pregnancy, then one gets what they deserve.
You can't play football and not expect to get knocked down.

Women have MANY options for birth control
And the ONLY one that is 100% is not to have sex.

Women are just as responsible as men for birth control.
And what did her “responsibility” get everyone? And how responsible was he?

What about taking some responsibility for your own body if you don't want to get pregnant.
Is that what she is complaining about? That she got pregnant and it was his fault?

Stop blaming the men for everything and then making them pay for your choices because they turn out to be harder than you thought.
He should pay as much for his choice as she should for hers.

I don’t know if you have an oc in your life or not. If you do, bummer.
I’m not trying to blame your h for everything but he screwed up as much as the ow did.
I understand wanting to make it all out to be her fault/responsibility, whatever.

Affairs suck. And I imagine they suck a bazillion times more if there's an oc.

The plain fact is the ow got pregnant by the actions of TWO people who should not have done what they did. If the ws had not gotten involved with the ow, then nothing would have happened.
And it's not simply because the ow made a poor choice in contraception.
Like it or not, everyone involved gets to pay the price.

<small>[ January 09, 2004, 05:37 PM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

You and your H do not have to be tied to the xOW, other than CS. And even CS is not forever... You can move on together and leave her & OC in the dust. Do you think he is still be in love with the OW??? How come you feel he is tied to her forever moreso than with you? Just curious?

<small>[ January 12, 2004, 11:29 AM: Message edited by: litlone ]</small>

forth, I'm sorry I have to respond. I will be as respectful as I can and hopefully you'll take it this way and not as a flame. I can totally see where you feel the way you do, as this situation has torn your world upsidedown. With that being said........I have to say that if want to sue ow then why not sue both your uh and ow? It was done by both of them. The MOP I don't know much about and can't comment on as yet. I've only just heard of it recently and never thought of it before. I don't even know if it's in my state or not. So I can't comment on that. And is it just as easy as that? I know when I've called my ob to get in, I have to wait at least a day or two sometimes a week, depending on his work load. Do you just call and ask for it? So I don't know. I don't believe that if you don't want a baby don't have sex. More times than not, sex is for well ya know more so than having a baby. It just so happens that the act can result in that. I do believe that both partners need to be responsible for this child. Bottom line. My beliefs are he knew it could of happened....unless he knew that one of them is fixed, or without the parts for it to happen. Even on the pill it can happen. He stepped out and took the chance. I know it hurts you and you are just as innocent as the children here on both sides, but you are the adult and should be able to recognize that both your uh and ow are equally to blame. I take my full responsiblity for my share of this whole mess. And yes I feel bad about it. It does not change what happened and I can't take it back, but I have to do what I feel is right for me. What comes with that is that your husband has brought you and your family into this and you need to blame them both for this. I'll be honest, when I first read your post my eyes got huge.....but I guess if I was in your shoes and looking at you are looking at, I would want revenge too. Heck, I want revenge now on xmm but it's not the right thing to do. So I bite my tongue and wait it out till it passes, then hope I can get past it until the next time I have to deal with this thing. As a parent I think we would all feel something in that regards. I'm not much on sueing anyway. I was in a car accident and have damage from it. I had to get an attorney, but made it clear I don't want money. I just want my doctor bills paid. Luckily non of us were hurt to the extent of having to be in the hospital and I've manage to work my two jobs and everything. So why sue? Yes I'm in pain, but once the baby is born, I'll have a procedure to fix it and be done with it. Anyway, I hope you understood what I said to you without taking offense to it, and hope you know I'm not flaming you.
Also for the record.....I feel that xmm has just as much right and say so over our child as I would have. It's only right. That is how it is with stbxh so why should it be any different? That is crazy. Now if xmm never wanted contact and then one day he thought I'll step up to the plate and be a daddy now.....then there would have to be time frames of getting to know the child and earning the "daddy" thing but otherwise, he has just as much say so as the mother.

<small>[ January 09, 2004, 10:09 PM: Message edited by: needtomoveon ]</small>

Needtomoveon = I don't take any offense at all to what you say. Thanks for trying to understand my side of things. You are right - I am extremely angry and hurt right now. I also do not believe in suing people and would not do it, but was just curious. I like to get revenge in my head, but I have too much of a conscience to do it in real life. I know I have to live with myself and my actions, and I don't want to live with guilt on top of all the pain. I do blame my H for the affair equally, and for the sex, but I have a problem with the fact that OW did not use any birth control herself. And she did not give my H any say in deciding if she would continue with the pregnancy. It was 100% her decision from the time she got pregnant, so I do have a problem with my H having to pay for it for the next 18 years. She could give the child up for adoption if she chooses to, so why can't he? If she gave it up for adoption, no one would come after her for $. She could make the decision that she did not want the responsibility of a child in her life. But she made the decision for herself AND us, and I have a problem with that. She also told my H that she would raise this child on her own since she was the one who wanted it, and then came crying for $ when she realized that life is hard with kids. I also know that the MAP is legal in her state, in fact I am almost positive that it is available in her state directly from a pharmacist. And if I told any GYN that I had a serious emergency, I would be in the office that day. You can always get in if you have an emergency. And for those that asked if my H has any other conection to OW besides the OC - NO, isn't that enough? Just knowing that bond is there is difficult to bear, even if there is no contact. By the way, these are my views and not my H's. He feels very responsible and guilty and wants to pay CS, even though we are only doing it by verbal agreement now and we are slowly spiraling into financial problems because of it.

forth, I can see how you would feel that way because you of course had nothing to do with any of the choices put on you. To be honest, I even feel somewhat guilty about making xmm pay cs when he begged me to abort. But then I realize I was not in my bed alone and it was not me who kept knocking on my door. Calling my phone and the list can go on. As well, a couple of days before I got pregnant he was in love with me, and the day I told him he hated me. Hello!!!!! I too told xmm I would raise her on my own, but also told him I expected cs from him. Just as my other kids father pays cs. He agreed. I do know what you mean though. Do you guys have kids? Are they not included in your expenses? I have no intenetions of robbing xmm. I want to be as fair as I can....in fact I'm willing to be more fair to him than him to me. I can totally understand that revenge playing in your head....I'm with you there. I've had several movies going on myself. Never towards his w but towards him. Forth it's only human. As far as your h goes Forth, he's showing to be a true man for needing to do the right thing. Not many men in his shoes are so willing without a fight and stall tatics. Good luck with your situation and I hope things get better for you.

It's obvious to me that you're angry that OC exists.
However, OC didn't come about on it's own...your husband is as much responsible for the OC as the OW is. If he didn't want a pregnancy to occur, he should have worn a condom, just as if she didn't want a pregnancy, she should have protected herself.
It doesn't make sense for you to sue OW for this child's existence unless you sue your husband as well. They are both responsible parties.

Ask yourself this: Will suing the OW solve your problems?

Of course she is angry that the child exists. From reading her post though, I don't think that she is angry at the child.

I am curious about your birth control comment though. Did YOU get pregnant from your MM on purpose?

Of course not. I wouldn't purposely do that to an innocent child nor was I out to destroy anyone's home life. It's not my life long dream to be a single mother, pregnant by a married man...please give me a little more credit than that.
My only other pregnancy was with my ten year old son. I'm certainly aware of birth control and have successfully used it until this happened.

He told me he was infertile. He has no children of his own, and they've adopted one together.
Of course I could have been on birth control just to protect myself, but I trusted him...and that's my fault.


I'm certainly not unhappy about being a mother again, in fact, I'm quite excited.
But I in no way planned the pregnancy. My question really is if he planned for me to get pregnant as he is obviously fertile.

Onthesidelines, I must say he probaly did not. I too am infertilte and guess what....I'm pregnant, this time without drugs and Invitro. Sometimes it "does just happen". I really don't think he did this on purpose, but then again I don't know your story of your a.

Onthesidelines - you didn't read my posts very carefully. I clearly stated that I had no intention to sue anyone but was just curious. And my H did use a condom every time they had sex except the last time when they both had too much to drink and forgot. Yes, he forgot - but so did she. And the entire length of the affair SHE did not use any birth control on HER body when SHE did not want to get pregnant. Condoms are the least effective form of birth control. Since a woman is the one who gets pregnant, I would expect her to also use some form of birth control if she does not want to get pregnant - to not do that is irresponsible on HER part as well. My point is the men are always blamed, but in this case the woman did nothing to prevent a pregnancy and I find that irresponsible from a woman who is almost 40. If you are 18 OK, but after that you also are responsible for birth control. Don't rely solely on the man to do it for you, and then put all the blame on him, then make all the choices for him, and them make him pay for your choices.

<< in this case the woman did nothing to prevent a pregnancy >>

neither did your husband if he wasn't wearing a condom.

<< Don't rely solely on the man to do it for you>>

I agree as I've learned you can't trust them with it.

<<and then put all the blame on him>>

She's not accepting any responsibility???

<<then make all the choices for him>>

I think she's making the choices for her. If she were to make the choices for him, she would have aborted as he wished.

<<and them make him pay for your choices.>>

It was her choice to keep the baby, both of them chose to have sex, and to not wear a condom. It's his child too, so he should be financially and morally responsible for it, whether he wants the child or not- he created it.


Just my 2cents...
sorry to be short and to the point, but that's me.