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ktbunch Offline OP
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We received this email today adressed to my H.

He had made it VERY clear to her awhile back that ALL correspondance was to be addressed to and directed to me, his wife, from now on so he could just focus on OC and did not want to deal with OW anymore because he was getting so upset by her antics.

*********************
********************

It starts out reasonable enough but then.....those lovely "details" she chose to share. She knew I would obviously read this.

The problem with those details is that H had sworn a million times that OW told of pg then he never spoke to her again. He told her that night that he only wanted me and our family and not her. He did not ask her to get an abortion, throughout their final conversation she kept asking him if she should get an abortion and finally he said yes, once. He said he NEVER told her he loved her, NEVER. (he doesn't even talk like that----"baby")

I started shaking as I read this and my heart literally felt like it was going to pound out of my chest. I felt like I was taken back in time to Dday.

I called my H @ work, so upset. I just can't believe her. He laughed @ the absurdity of her "details". She has said before that he only broke up w/ her because she wouldn't have an abortion.

He said (basically) that this was the last straw and we will end all C w/ OC so that we will never have to deal with or hear from OW again. I don't know about that. He says he doesn't want to deal with this any more---ever again and look what she is doing to us or TRYING to do to us!

Our custody agreement says that "the school for now is...private school" and that "educational decisions for child will be made by both parents". It does not say that this school is their first choice.

We never agreed to this school. OW enrolled OC without H consent or knowledge. We have made it very clear that we do not like this school and do not consent to OC attendance there. We are willing to compromise and look @ other private schools if that is OW choice.

The thing is I feel I am stuck in the middle of their "stories". I want to meet w/ OW face to face w/ H and hash out this "story" of theirs. I want my H to "set her straight" if he is telling the truth. I want to see both their faces @ the same time and see their reactions to each other about their differing versions.

I feel like H would be defending me this way by telling OW she is lying and just trying to hurt me, us, our marraige and family.

H says that OW will only hurt me more. That she won't admit to lying so what will that accomplish? I said if you are telling the truth then how can she hurt me more?

The nerve of her!!!!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> And to be so ....ugh!!!....to try and bring up this stuff now? Maybe that is why OW is saying it...so that we will be so upset that we WILL step out of OC's life and let OW have her all to herself.

I just want to tell her off again. One time, the very first time OW and I ever "got into" it, I was apologizing, on the spot and told her ok we got it out, now I don't want you to ever bring up this stuff to me ever again, it's the past. leave it there, don't ever bring it up again!

Of course she did another time too but then we went to "counseling", yep, all 3 of us! Last summer....blah blah blah...so I did not expect her to bringing this stupid stuff up ever again. really! Funny how she throws "this stuff" in the mix when it's really about something we refuse to give her her way on!!

What should I do about this? What should we do about this? Anything? What should I think about this? How should I react?
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

I am sorry this is so long, I am just so upset!!!!!!

<small>[ March 13, 2004, 07:51 PM: Message edited by: ktbunch ]</small>

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I am sure others will be along to give you great advice. But if this is a different school than she has been attending and you haven't agreed to it then I think you have some grounds to take to court on it. Especially since she wrote in black and white that he didn't agree...and she just enrolled her.
I agree she shouldn't be putting in personal stuff that has no bearing on the OC.
As for the he said, she said. How much would it be to get a lie detector test to get all your questions answered? Otherwise...my thoughts are if your marriage is good other than this subject-and you trust what he says regarding everything else then try to put it behind you so you can heal. She obviously was trying to get under you skin with adding those little tidbits to her email.

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ktbunch Offline OP
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H had to go back to work tonight and I want to call OW soooooooooooooo bad!

Can someone remind me why this would NOT be a good idea?
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

clarification: OC is in Kindergarten. OW enrolled OC in this school w/out H knowledge or consent last year. We made it clear we did not want her in that school, we have maintained our position and OW re-enrolled OC again w/out knowledge or consent. We only found out by asking the school ourselves.

<small>[ March 10, 2004, 09:28 PM: Message edited by: ktbunch ]</small>

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DON'T RESPOND!! Don't get sucked in. Don't wallow with the pig in the mud.

Fog, fog, fog, fog, fog, fog...

Xow is in her own little world, her own perspective, doing her own thing and isn't going to change. Leopards don't change their spots.

She will continue to do what she wants her way unless legally forced otherwise (then she'll still be passive-agressive!!). Trying to talk to her is talking to a brick wall, AND she'll enjoy the control she got by getting under your skin!!!

DON'T BOTHER.

Allow yourself your feelings--your feelings are normal and understandable, be kind to yourself--but deal with your pain without talking to her! Ultimatly, you'll never know exactly who said what, she said, he said... But she'd love to cause trouble between you, so let it go as much as possible. Recovery is paramount.

In her "right" little world, only she and H are parents of this child and you will be ignored. Our XOW is the same way. I would let your lawyer handle everything to the full extent possible. Is there any way you can use a third party contact for the small stuff, the contact outside of court?

Peace be with you,
J

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KT you are soooooo much better than she is. Don't let her run your life which I think all OW try to do. Use the law. If she is in contemp then she will have to pay for your attorney as well. (thats how is in my state) They OW want the father to be there, but I think its just a control thing. Our OW wants to sit down w/ me & H thats what she told me when we ran into her at a concert. (She didn't even have tickets too) It makes me sad because these people (OW) don't get it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> Our H chose us not them, GO AWAY!!!!
GET A LIFE ! Our OW would just love for me to pick up the phone and call her, she gets a great deal of pleasure telling me if my H brought someone else home I would let him have s** in front of me. She's gross and shes lost. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> They are forever in our lives and we are going to have to be better. (Don't mean we don't want to ring their necks!!) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> But the devil gets great pleasure in watching us loose or faith, if only for a minute. I think she heard of your weekend and found away to bring you down. Thats why our OW calls on mondays after we went to the cabin. She knows there our relationship gets stronger and we get closer having time away from all of this. I can't wait till our papers are servered! She is going to flip! She doesn't want DNA, said it makes her look like a whore. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Dahhh!! I am a beleiver on what goes around comes around and I beleive I will live to see it!!

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You can do two things here. Call your attorney and start fighting. If she is going against an agreed upon, legally filed document, you can beat her in court. Plus she loses her school deposit, and has to pay your legal fees. Seems like this idiot wanted the child support, but doesn't think anyone should have a call in this oc's life. WRONG. Go after her with the law.

OR

You can totally stop contact and move on with yourlife. Why put yourself through this? This woman is a loser. She has nobody and she gets her kicks out of trying to get your goat.

Just remember, your husband chose you, and that she was nothing. She wishes she was something, she wants you to think she was something, but really, once a whore.......

She does not matter. Dump the whole thing in her lap and happily move on with your life. Since you have had contact, keep a journal or something for her to give her when she is older.

At that time you can explain to her that her mother was a game player, etc.

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I agree with Jenny and LynnG.

Don't get sucked in with Ow's games...my h's ex-ow mixed some truth with fibs that she told me and it was just enough to knock back Mr."T"'s and my recovery for a while (which almost ended in divorce). Don't talk to OW except for OC related things. What's past is past and there are two sides to every story.

You and H have to decide if you have the legal funds to fight the (@(@)#*@#*@^ and get what is fair and square in regards to your side with OC or just let it go and let the (*@#)(@*#& get what she wants...your money and total control of her child.

Financially Mr."T" and I couldn't fight and had no desire to, because we knew what type of "woman" (and I say that loosely of his ex-ow)she was and still is. It's best for her to raise her child in her own cesspool and not drag our familiy into it. Mr."T" pays his price financially and in other areas, so all the ow's out there can crow in satisfaction that the MM suffers just like the BS and COM.

I can't stand things like this...just another reason that I count my lucky stars and wisdom in regards to choosing NC for our family and our situation.

*diclaimer*....FOR OUR FAMILY AND SITUATION. NO SITUATION IS ALIKE!!!!

Twiisty

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First, KT, your H stated that he no longer wanted contact. You have said many many times how much you regret it.

Does your H mean this seriously and is this something he has been contemplating for some time now? How close of a R is there already established between H, you, your children and OC? Would OC suffer if this relationship were to be severed, would your children suffer? I guess I am trying to see how the relationship has grown, has it blossomed is there enough love amongst everyone that the children (who matter most) and H would not be able to emotionally deal with stopping contact at this point?

If you read everything you write yourself here to those of us contemplating contact, etc. Are you sure that contact is even healthy for the OC, let alone for your family unit? I am beginning to understand, even through reading some of the opposing sites, that contact does sometime have many setbacks for both sides. As the child gets older, is she going to adopt the negativity of the OW.. is she going to feel the awkwardness between everyone, even if everyone is trying to hide it? She doesn't deserve to feel strange or have a forced relationship just as you and the kids don't.

You are all victims of a hurtful and sad situation. I guess sometimes giving it a good effort doesn't work, and cutting losses and moving on while she and your children are fairly young may be painful at first, but best for all. Out of evil sometimes the innocent will be affected even when they were not a party to evil. Look at Adam and Eve. We are after all, decendents of them and God says we all are direct "sufferers" of the temptation that they gave into.

Just food for thought.

Just like the Bible story that you or someone else gave me as as a reference. The BS tried to have a relationshp with OC, but her heart and her marriage could not withstand this pain. God sent OW and OC away to be taken care of by him, right?

I am not advocating not seeing her anymore, but just be sure that if you do continue on with this battle w/OW and OC, that it is not purely out of a "must flex muscles" towards OW and her antics involving OC. As the wonderful mother she is portraying herself to be, she should and may realize some day that she alone may be responsible if H cannot be a father to her daughter. You guys can only do so much and when it is directly hurting you this much, I dunno.. KT, I just know that I cannot and will not be able to deal with anything like this at this point in my life. I will go bullistic and you are handling it so well!!!!

Personally I would not be able to avoid replying to OW's message! I would be completely "professional" and at the same time let her know in a very matter of fact way "nice try" I am not falling for your distortion of the facts in the e-mail, as I know you wrote them directly for ME, not H. I'd make it brief and remind her also that she is not to communicate w/H in this or any other manner, etc.

Maybe this is all bad advice, but I am being honest about how I feel and what I would most likely do in your situation. This is tough, KT and you are a trooper- you will be fine.

Just be sure that you don't allow OW to do what she set out to do.. and that is to set you and H back and get you two arguing which I bet she feels you are. Don't let it happen and don't blame H or get too set back. I know you are confused as to details and who is lying, etc... I know there is one way via 3-way calling to handle putting the he-said she-said to rest. If H initiates a 3-way call to you, then adds her on, from another number other than your own, she would think H is calling her without you. If he converses with her directly about this email and its contents and challenges her statements about timeframes or whatever-- you could see how the story goes during a supposed "Wife-free" call. I did this myself and it helped. You'd just have to make sure he calls you on a cell or whatever when you are actually there with him.

Sounds childish or may be sucky that trust is not at 100%, but thats the nature of these beasts we call A's and their aftermath.

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ktbunch Offline OP
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I did not call her. I was very upset but not insane.

Tried to talk it out w/ H instead. That idea bombed. He just doesn't want to deal w/ it. Doesn't respond to anything I say, just shuts me out and shuts down.

H said that I don't even trust him and HE'S tired of being let down that way, that I only ACT like I trust him but I really don't so what is the point.

And I think, why would you just sit back and allow someone to purposely hurt your family or your wife? If he saw some man punching me wouldn't he try to stop it and defend me? Or would he just say, "just ignore it, he only wants you to get upset about it". I told him this and it is the same w/ OW. She is deliberately hurting me and he wants me to ignore it!???!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I have struggled to be the grown up, to "act like an adult", never making a scene (okay once but she started it & was worse and that was 1 1/2 years ago, in the very beginning), always being polite. My H has always kept his "cool" and not made a scene OR ever corrected her to her face when she has said these kinds of things to me.
Always says, "ok, lets go,"!

I love my H and that's why all of this hurts me. Am I not worth defending? That's what it makes me think. He thinks I should just "trust him", with out any hesitation or thought. DUH!!!!!!! Is he high?

I mean really. There have been so many other instances of fishy things that i have "just trusted" & believed him but I don't get credit for anything. One doubt and I "just don't trust him"! I am starting to think I am the biggest fool here. Why is he even with me then?

Even when there have been questionable situations he says, "you have no reason to beleive me, I can't convince you". But shouldn't he TRY!!!??

I am tired of it all. He says I should try to put myself in his shoes. I am trying to be fair but come on!!!!! I wish I was in his shoes and then see how he would respond to all of this!

I feel like I am coping with this all alone, like he is not even trying. I think I am doing a heck of a good job "dealing" with all this crap but sometimes....yah it hurts again.

He just wants me to "get over it already" and i'm really trying but he's not helping that much either. H says he wants me to turn to him and be able to get comfort and support from him not the "computer" but then when I try----I am just shut out. I guess he only wants to comfort me if it nothing serious about this CRAP!!!!!!

Why am I on here? Why aren't the WH on here? It's long over for him so he can't understand that for me all of this has just started.

H slept on the couch last night, he just ignored me and everything I was saying and then finally said, "I don't want to talk to you right now". Famous last words.......

Put myself in his shoes......feel sorry for him! I have, which is what has enabled me to get over and come as far as we have but what about MY shoes!!!!!!

And anyways, if he wants some sympathy then maybe he SHOULD come on here and get some support. How am I supposed to be a good support to him when I obviously have issues!!!!! I couldn't even sleep last night.

I am so angry right now.

That is an excellent idea Lynn about making her pay for our fees since she is the one forcing us to have to go back to court about it, I never even thought of that. But really, how would she pay us back, in food stamps? LOL

Apparently she is not a "whore" she is another "virgin mother"! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Even better! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> whatever!

I am a christian, you guys know that and i'm trying so hard to handle all of this in the right manner but why can't my H ...... I don't know.....WHY DID HE ALLOW THIS TO HAPPEN and then to still ALLOW it to creep back into our home and in our lives!!!!!!!!!

Just because I "wasn't nice" to him and she was!!!!!! Oh but what a selective memory he chooses. Never mentions how he was treating me @ the time!!!!!!!

I am turning into this horrible ugly person right now and I can feel all the anger and rage and tears coming back and where is it gonna go?

I told him I was "through" last night. I can't and won't keep trying to do "this" all by myself. No feedback from him or it all has to be on his time, "we'll talk about it later", "I don't wnat to talk about it right now"

He said when I called him yesterday so upset, he felt like I was reacting as if it was the very first time he told me anything about it, and he felt like I was attacking him like the very first time, uh! yah duh!!!!!! That was the way my body even was physically responding to it. Is that normal? I could't even control the shaking and the pounding heart. I guess it's because I was so shocked and taken aback by it, coming so unexpectedly out of nowhere.

He was like why are you mad @ me and i told him I don't even know who I'm mad @ or even if I'm mad right now I am just very upset by this!

Maybe I can let just let it all out here. I had calmed down last night and had a good grip on things then when H came home and I tried to talk to him about it and explain my POV on it......it all fell apart again!

I still want him to confront her on all of this and stick up for me. Realistically,I doubt that would ever happen any way because she would just give excuses about not having someone to watch the kids while we talked anyway. But that is what I would WANT to see.

He has the day off today so......we'll see how that goes. I can predict his behaviour pretty well so I have an idea, I would love to be wrong though.

There is no solution, I know. I think he is right in that sense, either deal with it and get over it OR don't!

If this is my life I just have to accept it for what it is and live it!

I'm about ready to give up, maybe this is just too much to ask of someone. Maybe there really is no recovery from something like this. We either ignore and move on or...we don't.

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(((( KT )))) I know I felt as if it were day #1 when we found out OC was born--my whole body INSTANTLY got those nasty shakes and heart pounding we know so well.. and then I picked up a cup and threw it in his face and ran away crying and carrying and feeling as if my world was over (again). H was so furious at me because we had gone over all this and we obviously knew the OC would be born... but yet and still these emotions are so strong and so real and they hurt so much-- WE HAVE NO CHOICE IN THE PHYSICAL rush it INSTANTLY gives us-- it is absolutely mind blowing how it comes and we are almost completely powerless over it unless there is a shot of herion or morphine ??? They DON'T understand how deep these scars run and how certain things- beyond our reasoning or control, just make the severe pain RUSH to the surface. If there were no OC involved.. then HELLO.. maybe we could "bury" this pain a little further but they created a life that will always be a risk of rising this pain for us!

I have a meeting for the next hour and would love to respond more (since I am so long-winded, lol)
But mainly about this-- I have printed out entire threads that I started or have responded to for my H... everything is laid out so clear and concise and makes so much more sense when you are writing it not to H... but when it is a bunch of intelligent people and you talking in a pretty much non-attack and rational mode amongst one another. Your posts are very clear and you could even edit a couple things in yours if you want, but just an idea that also was pretty effective for H. Although your H doesn't really like the computer gabbing, etc... you made a good point about your talking to him about it and him shutting you out (my H and many WS are GREAT for doing this also, as they push aside hard issues and sweep them under, hoping they will go away) We women want things settled and handled so we can get on with our lives-- and thats the healthy way. He doesn't see that if he would merely allow you to feel you matter- thats all you really want!
Not to mention I also have told H that he needs to stand up for me with his family,etc... and by just agreeing with me, but not enforcing his bond w/me to his family- it makes it look like its all fine w/him and it hurts me.

Talk to you in a bit... ((((( KT )))) I could have written your post.

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ktbunch Offline OP
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I feel alittle better now. I DID repond to OW email. I can not just ignore these things, that does not work for me, it makes me feel like I have no control.

I think I showed some class though. I did not refer to anything "personal".

I only reiterated the FACTS:that she agreed and signed the court order that she has already broken numerous times. I said that she can continue to do what she wants and we will continue to do what's LEGAL.....blah blah blah...

I reminded her ("in case she forgot") "that all communication is to go through me. SO that H can focus on what he is really here for, OC. He does not have the the time or the desire to go back and forth over these frivolous things when we have already gone to court and agreed to the parenting plan that is in place. We plan on sticking to it, in detail. I will continue to handle all communication and details."

I hope she feels utterly "dismissed". She means so much of nothing that H has delegated all communication to go through HIS WIFE!

I feel much better now. I think I am calmed down.....now if I can just get through to that H of mine....

Thanks for all your support everyone during my mini-crisis.

See, am I just ignoring it all now? @ what price?

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KT, have you considered what giovanna123 said about going no-contact and maybe discuss it with your H??

Would that be a love-buster with him? Or even letting go of some issues, not to let xow "win", but to relax some strife the fighting causes in your marriage. Chose your battles carefully?

Even if you started contact with mutual egreement, it really seems to be hurting you ALL! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> When your H ends up on the couch not speaking to you over HER note, the xow "won" in a really destructive way.

Some men are conflict-avoiders. Mine is. (It's actually an affair "type"! see http://www.affairs-help.com/). Their anger may come out passive-agressively, but they'll go a long way to avoid arguing. Men compartmentalize well, too. Stick the issue in a box not affecting the rest of their life.

Given these 2 things, your H's behavior doesn't surprise me, but the on-going conflicts are re-injuring your marriage.

I hope it gets better.
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kt, I am sorry you are going through this. I am sorry for your hurt. I think your H's attitude stinks. When he says, "I don't want to talk about it right now", make a set time for the next day. It could be in the morning with coffee, or in the evening before or after dinner. Commit H to a time to dicuss what is bothering you. If not, tell him you wish to go back to marriage counseling. You cannot go on like this honey.

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KT,

I read your orginal post last nite, & I wanted to respond but couldn't. I am now reading your post from this morning & crying, I am so sorry for your pain & hate the fact that words from OW about the past can open up old wound like it was fresh from yesterday. You got some very good responses. But you need H's full cooperation & understanding of your pain in all this.

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Ouote:
Tried to talk it out w/ H instead. That idea bombed. He just doesn't want to deal w/ it. Doesn't respond to anything I say, just shuts me out and shuts down.
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Why does that seem to be the best solution, shut down, deal w/ it later, like it is going to go away???? OW will not go away & she accomplished exactly what she wanted to put a small wedge between you & H. I know it is extremly hard KT, but don't let her do it, I am sure you guys have worked hard to get your marriage back on track, you have chosen to deal w/ OC & I can see why you say you regret it.


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Quote:
And I think, why would you just sit back and allow someone to purposely hurt your family or your wife? If he saw some man punching me wouldn't he try to stop it and defend me? Or would he just say, "just ignore it, he only wants you to get upset about it". I told him this and it is the same w/ OW. She is deliberately hurting me and he wants me to ignore it!???!!!
**************************************************

I have heard that one too, "Why do you blow everything out of porportion?" "It is not that big a deal!" That almost makes me more angry than whatever I was originally upset about.


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Ouote:
I have struggled to be the grown up, to "act like an adult", never making a scene (okay once but she started it & was worse and that was 1 1/2 years ago, in the very beginning), always being polite. My H has always kept his "cool" and not made a scene OR ever corrected her to her face when she has said these kinds of things to me.
Always says, "ok, lets go,"!

I love my H and that's why all of this hurts me. Am I not worth defending? That's what it makes me think. He thinks I should just "trust him", with out any hesitation or thought. DUH!!!!!!! Is he high?

I mean really. There have been so many other instances of fishy things that i have "just trusted" & believed him but I don't get credit for anything. One doubt and I "just don't trust him"! I am starting to think I am the biggest fool here. Why is he even with me then?

Even when there have been questionable situations he says, "you have no reason to beleive me, I can't convince you". But shouldn't he TRY!!!??

I am tired of it all. He says I should try to put myself in his shoes. I am trying to be fair but come on!!!!! I wish I was in his shoes and then see how he would respond to all of this!
Put myself in his shoes......feel sorry for him! I have, which is what has enabled me to get over and come as far as we have but what about MY shoes!!!!!!
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Maybe that is part of the "fog". Why is it that H's can't see that this hurt is very real & ongoing? No we don't dwell on it, but when OC is created as a result of an A, you not only have the A to get over but a lasting reminder to deal with, even w/ NC, it has financial effects, that you can't ingnore, that go on for 18 to 21 yrs!

I ask my H why he is with me all the time, especially if he can't treat me any better than he does. Trust has to be earned & after a betrayal, the WS should work even harder to rebuild trust IMO. As for you being in his shoes, it is so easy to say that to someone, I hear that all the time too, I know my H would leave me if I were in his shoes. In my experience most men won't/can't forgive an A, much less an OC, ego can't handle it.
*************************************************

Quote:
I feel like I am coping with this all alone, like he is not even trying. I think I am doing a heck of a good job "dealing" with all this crap but sometimes....yah it hurts again.

He just wants me to "get over it already" and i'm really trying but he's not helping that much either. H says he wants me to turn to him and be able to get comfort and support from him not the "computer" but then when I try----I am just shut out. I guess he only wants to comfort me if it nothing serious about this CRAP!!!!!!

H slept on the couch last night, he just ignored me and everything I was saying and then finally said, "I don't want to talk to you right now". Famous last words.......
And anyways, if he wants some sympathy then maybe he SHOULD come on here and get some support. How am I supposed to be a good support to him when I obviously have issues!!!!! I couldn't even sleep last night. I am so angry right now.
**************************************************

KT, you are only human, you are dealing with this well, as well as can be expected, there are a lot of self-help books out there but none to tell you how to deal w/ OC & OW & H that lives in in "fogland". This is so not fair, & it makes me angry as well. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Try to smooth things out w/ H. I know it seems like we as women have to do that a lot but I know your marriage & family is worth it. Sounds like OW is determined to disrupt your lives, don't let her! It is not easy I know my H has spent a few nites on the couch too, who wins though? I have spent many a sleepless nite too, you think OW was up all nite last nite - NO! She may never know what turmoil she caused but only because you let her.

Maybe going to NC is an option? It makes me wonder if my H ever does get legal vistation & puts OW in her proper place, is this what I have to look forward to? I don't question God, but sometimes I wonder why... & seeing so much pain on this forum, I don't know.

Stay strong girl, you can make through this & give God glory! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

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Ignore the other womans reuqests for financial assistance for a private school that you did not consent to. Pay only the agreed amount of child support and do so through the child support agency - not privately. One day the OW may wake up and stop using her child to come between you and your husband. I will guarentee that she feels any agreement from your husband can be considered a win for her and a jab in your back as his wife! She is not concerned by her childs best interests - she's just trying to get the upper hand and cause problems.

Try and ignore her as much as possible.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ktbunch:
<strong> H had to go back to work tonight and I want to call OW soooooooooooooo bad!

Can someone remind me why this would NOT be a good idea?
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

clarification: OC is in Kindergarten. OW enrolled OC in this school w/out H knowledge or consent last year. We made it clear we did not want her in that school, we have maintained our position and OW re-enrolled OC again w/out knowledge or consent. We only found out by asking the school ourselves. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

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I started to write alst night but it was taking to long so I tried to save it but.....anyway it's not here. Probably better anyway.

H and I tried to talk/disuss/argue about it again yesterday and we just kept going in circles. It really was pointless.

I finally got to the point of just agreeing with him and saying,"if your idea of "getting over it" is that I will be smiling all the time, never mentioning it again, never having any pain from it, acting like OC is actually mine and you don't have to put in any effort to help me get like that, then YES I am NOT over it and I never will be!, so there we are, there is no point in going on any further. I will never be able to be what you want and you do not want to put in the effort yourself, so it will not be good for the kids but maybe this is just too much for one person to go thru and we will just never recover so either you stay w/ your mom or I will go to mine".

I did not say this threatening but rather in a calm resigned kind of way. We had to run some errands and stuff so we were and just stayed quiet.

After awhile H tried to apologize and said that he knows he has been slacking and the FIRST thing he is going to do is start reading his Bible again, with me, on a regular basis. (earlier when we were arguing H had asked me something that I don't remember but I had responded, well read some books or read the Bible @ least, I think he was asking like how can he find out what to do or how to act in our marraige) So I guess that made him realize the true nature of our problems and what the priorities should be.

I did not resond when he said this, which was probably smart since I tend to over-respond as I'm sure you all have noticed.

So things have calmed down and of course, I am not ending my marriage. It's not what I want, it never has been.
*********
H uncle (the lawyer) referred us to a lawyer. It's a female but she was an officer in the air force and is president of the Bar. Not only is she legaly knowledgeable but supposedly can hold her own. We left her a message. Uncle gave some good advice about some changes to make to custody agreement too. Said to cut the BS of only having the schedule that OW would agree to. Said OW does NOT have to agree, that is what the judge is for and the judge will see that it is nothing unreasonable that we ask for. He could see, w/o us telling him that OW was agreeing to a schedule that was to puposely not allow OC to be alone w/ me (because visitation is all around H days off). He said there is no reason for that and judge will see that. So we are more hopeful for that too.

We literally have no $$$ but we will do whatever it takes to afford this laywer.

Of course that won't eliminate OW occasional A details but I am going to ask the lawyer about that to. There has got to be something. If businesses can have confidentiality clauses and things where you can't talk about or discuss settlements then I'm sure we can put something like that in there somewhere, that no referances to respondent/defendents past relationship can be made or something like that. I bet that we can really do this, that would be interesting.

*********
I am either an optimist or a glutton for punishment because I think if we can just get all this "stuff" (custody/visitation) all precise and detailed on the court order then that will eliminate the strife.

I advocate NC because of my own experiences so others can avoid them instead of playing the risk game and I wish there was someway to eliminate it for us.....as if we moved away......but since OC knows us, it has been almost 2 years, I just feel like we can't stop it. But maybe there will come a time when we can move away and get on with OUR lives.

It has nothing to do w/ bonding I don't think. I don't think any of us has "bonded", OC included, more like a toleration and occasionally someone is enjoying themselves through it. Like OC gets to have different opportunities w/ us and BC have someone different to play w/.
***********
So here we are.............. in lala land? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

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Hi, I have been a lurker here for a while. I don't really post because this obviously isnt my board. First let me say I am sad to say I am an OW and the worst kind..yes I am pregnant. it's a LONG story for which I will start a new thread because I could use some feedback from you ladies sides.

Anyway,
what got my attention is the "3-way call" thing. Be wary of this.
Shortly after DDay. My MM explained to me that BS requested such a phone call, one in which she would listen in. He coached me on exactly what I was supposed to say and not say and there was a "secret phrase" that would alert me that she was in on the call.

I had serious issues with this. The woman had been through enough pain... and I didnt feel comfortable in continuing any deception. Fortunately this 3 way call has not happened. I am sure he pulled the same crap your husband did, getting "upset" with wife saying " you dont trust me".

As far as the OW insensitive comments...well I agree they were unecessary, but I think instead of trying to hurt you she knows that you will react and take it out on your husband. So Really your husband is the target of her manpulation. She wants to hurt HIM and she is using YOU to do it for her. This is still wrong. Obviously she is still hurting as well which is why she is playing these stupid games.


It seems to me that both your husband and the OW are playing power trip with each other. As far as the child's school schools and this disturbs me most.. similar to divorced spouses with children in which they use the children as pawns to manipulate each other.

She knows the school choice upsets him. HE knows the school choice he made upsets her.

Before I digress tomuch. if the child was already in that school last year, wouldnt it be better FOR THE CHILD to keep him in the same school with all his established playmates and familiar environment?

Unless this is a matter of affordability and difference in cost between the schools then I can completely undestand you and your husband's decision.

oh, curious, what type of custody agreement does you husband have with the child's mother? Do they have joint custody or does she have sole custody?


Thanks for letting me interject my thoughts here. I know I am the "evil ow" here stepping in on your thread. I just got riled by the 3 way call thing. My stbxMM is such a convincing liar... he really made me mad when he tried to pull me in to cover his [censored].

He has caused her and I enough pain ... so then he wants to get me involved with this 3 way call LIE?? Thank godit never happened because I dont think I could lie for him anymore.

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<small>[ March 15, 2004, 03:51 PM: Message edited by: LynnG ]</small>

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Ok KT. Times up. Game over. You have fought the good fight. Give contact up with oc. It's over. This oc and her presence is causing way to much drama. The time you are spending and the money you are spending is not worth it. Your husband sounds numb. END THE CONTACT NOW.

Dear ow,

We have tried to be loving and supportive to oc. However you inability to put oc needs first are clear and we no longer wish to deal with you. From this day forward, we will no longer have visitation with oc. Our family is our first priority and we are going to focus on our lives.

We will keep a journal for oc, in the chance that she wishes to reconnect with us as an adult.

Any contact from you will be considered harrassment and will be treated as such.

KT BUNCH

THEN WALK AWAY. How much more damage are you going to allow? STOP THE MADNESS.

Make sure your attorney is well aware of all of this. Have them help you write the letter.

THEN keep a journal. Keep all her harrassing emails, etc. Also fond memories (?), photos of family trips, etc. Should oc contact you in the future you can say you tried. People are not stupid. She will see what the truth was.

Your husband is on overload too. Sure, you are the one who is the innocent victim, but he is now a victim too. OW is manipulating him and, darling, you are helping her do it. You need to stop. He doesn't want contact. So let it end.

Sure, ow may win this battle. But really, what did she win? The CS was legally due, so that is not a win. She has toyed with her child and cost said child a father and a good stepmother. She lost her free babysitter. What do you lose?????

1. you loose the constant drama
2. you loose the upheaval of your home
3. you loose the dueling attorney fight
4. you loose all the time on the road to pickup oc.

YOU GAIN Far more. She may think she "win's" But really you do.

1. You win peace
2. You win a chance to enjoy your life
3. You are no longer force to fight for day to day normalcy with an abornormal person.
4. You win admiration of your H. You tried to do a good thing, at a high cost to yourself and your children, for another. Even though it didn't work out, at least you tried. The only one who did.
5. You win back your life.
6. Your children get a chance at quiet life
7. Happy and romantic times instead of talking about laywers and pickup times and oc schools etc.

END THIS NOW.

KT, I really worry about you. You sound like such a wonderful, kind and loving person. You are obviously a fantastic mother and loyal friend. Your love for your family and your husband is evident. Why oh why beat yourself and your marriage up anylonger? Please please please, take your own advice and go no contact. It is really beating you up. SHE is controlling you and your life right now. STOP IT. It isn't worth it. Spend your time and money on your own kids.

You tried. You did not fail. She did. You can't be expected to shoulder her responsiblity any longer.

Keep the faith.

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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by LynnG:
<strong> NYCMedic - It makes no difference if this school is best for oc or not. The FATHER said no. Therefore he should not be expected to grant ow her wish. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Were you fine lying and having the affair and getting pregnant while she didn't know anything?

The three way call was to appease her, since her feelings and well being matter.

Your sudden burst of conscience is questionable. You will not lie for him? But you helped him lie already didn't you? If he was leaving her for you I bet you would be perfectly happy to keep up the lies. But since it is quite clear where his loyalty lies, NOW you get all worried about HER feelings?

As for your hurt, nope, It does not belong on this thread for sure. You were not an innocent party at all. Your hurt is self inflicted. Deal with it.

What has me angy that you are here, even mentioning what is best for oc, an then talking about YOUR pain. KT is a good person. Kinder then I am. And let me tell you, when you come on here with your passive agressive bull****, it makes me mad. SHE is a good woman. A woman who has done far more for the oc then many in this situation. So don't lecture her about what is good for oc.

The oc is just one of many. The oc is NOT the most important person in the scenario. KT's feelings matter. Her childrens feelings matter. They should NOT be expected to shoulder this all to accomodate the oc.

I see this is your first post. I am sorry that i am jumping hard at you. I just feel that your mention of oc's best interest, and then YOUR hurt is totally out of line.

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